The time has come for a "wake-up call"

[sudeep_n]

i finally got what simar wants....he wants the 'subject' of the thread to be changed....and after some struggle I could find how to do that...to bring the discussion back to main topic (simar had succefully digressed it elsewhere I am putting some part of what Peter Luff said not me below)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... urpg-1.cms


Are British workers becoming too lazy to compete with India's booming economy?

Yes, according to Peter Luff, chairman of the House of Commons Trade and Industry Committee, who recently returned here from a fact-finding tour of India with members of his team.

The time has come for a "wake-up call" to those British people who took the country's prosperity for granted, said Luff, a Conservative MP from Mid-Worcestershire, at a meeting of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Birmingham.

Noting that now there were more Indian companies in Britain than British companies in India, Luff said Indian executives were becoming increasingly dismayed by what he called the "disappearance of work ethic" among British workers.

He said: "I know many British people are working harder than ever - but it's not universally true. What we heard from Indian companies time and time again was complaints about the British work ethic," he said.

[FromThere2Here]

Anyone who reads this month's Home Office report announcing immigration law changes will conclude the the HO -- and British employers -- are painfully aware of this problem.

The report states that a driving force behind the immigration law changes was a survey in which UK employers lavished praise on their immigrant workers for being far more committed and reliable than native British employees.

The government's response to this problem was simple -- begin a points system that makes it easy for experienced, well-educated white-collar workers to get UK work visas. This could be interpreted as an admission that the UK economy, long-term, is going nowhere but down unless it gets a transfusion of talented, hard-working executives from other countries.

The Guardian and some others have criticised this as a British brain-drain of Third World countries.

Need more evidence for the point Sudeep has raised? Head out to a pub at 1 p.m. on any workday and count the number of people in business suits you see downing pints of beer or bottles of wine. I've worked in a half-dozen countries in Asia, Europe, Latin America and North America and have never seen anything close to the booze culture that pervades the UK.

To be fair to my British friends, it's easy to sympathize with their preference for a pint or two over a sandwich at one's desk. Brits have to put up with a lot. The class divide seems to give them a sense of unhealthy fatalism. After all, if one family can own all property in Belgravia, what's the sense of trying to push one's way to the top? The message here, unlike other countries where I've worked, is that the top of the mountain is reserved most for people who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth, with very few spaces left for people who claw their way to the top through hard work.

Add to that the fact that British salaries are far lower -- and the cost of living far higher -- than in places like the US, and it's no wonder that British workers don't feel inspired to work 14-hour days and climb the corporate ladder.

I'd be interested to hear whether other people on this forum agree -- or think that I'm way off base. Personally, I think Britain faces a severe uphill battle if it's to save itself from eventually becoming little more than a glorified theme park for rich and hard-working Indian and Chinese tourists visiting its castle to get a taste of a time when this country meant something in the world.

All the same, I love the country. I'm sticking around. Just not in the pubs.

[ezh]

some 20 years ago the same was said about the Japanese economy and the lazy Americans. Good luck to India but it will be a long and difficult way to true prosperity - no doubts. Britain will be fine...

[sudeep_n]

What do u mean by true prosperity ezh?

[tvt]

One thing, the UK is in transition from a class based society to a merits based society. While in the past highly intelligent entrepreneurs who were born to the wrong classes could only become successful if they emigrated from the UK (mostly to America), today achievers can succeed at home.

[tvt]

Also I don't think Brits are lazy. The fact that they like to drink has nothing to do with laziness but to do with the need to discharge their reserved personalities.

[abcd1]

Brits are not lazy. They just dont' work hard in office.

Just visit any of Britain's large organizations computer division. At least 30%-60% workers are Indians (and the % is rising).

[sudeep_n]

As compared to the US and some of the EU countries as well Brits appear to be less productive.

[tvt]

Brits are less productive mainly because of the huge public sector compared to the US.

[mhunjn]

It depends which field you are talking about. Often people consider that IT is the only field people work in. In my experience in the past 7 yrs, I have not come across many Indians doing similar job to mine over here... and that includes big corporates. There's no denying the fact that there are a lot of Indians taking high-tech jobs... but they should be looked in perspective to the Indian population... The only reason people in India have been giving importance to education/professional courses & hard work is because that's the only way to survive in the cut-throat competition over there.

[Wanderer]

I must say I find this topic rather offensive - I'll sue cos my National Pride has be hurt, see you in Strasbourg!!! Hehe

I wouldn't call those boys who faced the Might of Germany alone in 1939 lazy, those that designed bombs that bounce and flew them into the middle of Germany and daringly destroyed the Ruhr dams.

And say what u like about Britain's Colonial past, that huge empire wasn't built by lazy people.

Steve

[FromThere2Here]

I must say I find this topic rather offensive - I'll sue cos my National Pride has be hurt, see you in Strasbourg!!! Hehe

I wouldn't call those boys who faced the Might of Germany alone in 1939 lazy, those that designed bombs that bounce and flew them into the middle of Germany and daringly destroyed the Ruhr dams.

And say what u like about Britain's Colonial past, that huge empire wasn't built by lazy people.

Steve

Steve,

England's heroic bravery, daring, and cunning during WWII certainly was one of the high points of the 20th Century. But the country's spectacular stand during the war really shows that its people were courageous 60 years ago, not that they're hard-working today.

As for Britain's colonial past, it's perhaps unfortunate that you raise that point in a thread devoted to the question of whether English workers are less hard-working than Indians. Do you really think Britain's conquest of India and other lands is evidence that Brits are hard workers? By that logic, we'd also have to acknowledge, based on their former empires, those other countries known for their hard-working populations -- Spain, Portugal, and Russia.

Don't get me wrong -- England's valor during WWII was beyond exceptional. But neither that valor nor the military might that enabled its colonialism says anything about the laziness (or lack thereof) of UK workers 60 years later.

That said, I certainly would love to hear some real evidence of the UK worker's devotion, mate, since I love this country and want to see it prosper.

[sudeep_n]

Ratan Tata to advise UK on its economy

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_ ... 020015.htm

[Wanderer]

Well to be dreadfully honest I do feel most people in the Western world have released there is more to life than work and profession and have become more hedonistic. That's not to say they are lazy tho.

Yes I would say it takes hard-working people to build an empire, starting with the Romans, finishing with the British Empire really. You can see a parallel too, Romans built their empire then sat back and lost it! Same with UK to follow the thread although the losses in WW2 probably did more to break up the Empire.

Anyway, those days are gone, the real issue here is are Brits lazy? Well I contend they've throttled back a bit to enjpy life rather than love work, but lazy, no, that's unfair.

Hard-working heroes? Still the Army in Iraq quietly does it's job professionally, the countless charity workers who give up their well-paid jobs to help in the third-world, the police, ambulance service, fire-brigade, all the emergency services who worked tirelessly during 7/7, every nation has them.

I've travelled a fair bit, met many nationalities and I feel on the whole peolple are fundamentally the same, mostly good, some bad. Mostly hardworking, some lazy.

Steve

[ezh]

[quote="Wanderer"] ...most people in the Western world have released there is more to life than work... [/quote]

agreed... India and China will come the same way eventually

[simar]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... urpg-1.cms

Please do not put such articles in forum. You really want to help india. Just work hard be contactor etc... Earn pounds , have connections & start firm back home in india. It is long way to go for us to be come at same level as EU is at this time.

[sudeep_n]

Simar - If you care to read these are the views of one of the most respectable British MPs - Peter Luff, chairman of the House of Commons Trade and Industry Committee. And not any Indian's.

Even then I do apologise if someone's feelings were hurt. The purpose was never to flaunt about India or its achievement. but put forward a very interesting and positive outlook by a dynamic, thoughtful British leader. I am myself a British Citizen and do care about its prosperity and people who do really care about it will be open to objective analysis, criticism and will accept that there are people better than us and there are areas of improvement. My interest and the interest of British economy lies in paying heed to such messages and not ignoring them.

As far your idea of do contracting, save pounds and blah blah......typical stale view. I am sure China, Brazil, Korea, Russia and other emerging and rapidly growing economies have come of age. And beyond cheap labour they have much more to offer to the world.

I do agree that the title (being that of a news item) is out of taste. but the whole article is worth reading and gives right message to a patriotic brit.

[FromThere2Here]

[quote=

I've travelled a fair bit, met many nationalities and I feel on the whole peolple are fundamentally the same, mostly good, some bad. Mostly hardworking, some lazy.

Steve[/quote]


I couldn't agree less, my friend. Yes, we're all human beings. Yes, we all have a mixture of laziness and drive/greed that make us vacillate between taking it easy and working hard. But the hard truth is that different cultures bring out different traits in their people.

You can't seriously say that their is no difference in "laziness" between (for example) Japanese and Argentinians. Some cultures emphasize working to live, others living to work.

The ideal, I think, is a balance between the two.

My fear for Britain is that, in the 60 years since WWII, it's lost all sense of pride in a job well done. When I compare my English colleagues with people I've worked with in Japan, Korea, or America, I really wonder how the decline and fall of the UK can ever be reversed.

That, I believe, is why the government has decided to open the floodgates and let in any highly skilled and highly educated foreigner.

[pantaiema]

Like anywhereelse some british are lazy some are not.
Similar things also apply to India.

Pantaiema

[sudeep_n]

funnily in his message Mr simar says that ' You really want to help india. Just work hard to be contractor etc...'

You just assume that an Indian has to work hard and will work hard. By the way I dont think India needs this type of help any more - it is the 3rd largest econmy today in the world.

Now do u say that to a brit - 'work hard'.

In the projects i have seen indian / chinese people work whether day or night at personal sacrifice. Brits most of them are managers - and dont cancel their vacations or pre-arranged personal plans whatever the stage. In a job earlier - I had seen a few chinese people who were always in office before anyone was there and left after everyone else. The boss completetly relied on them being there and solving issues any time.

[mhunjn]

There's a lot of difference in 'being in the office all the time' and 'doing the work required of you'...
In India, the work culture is predominently 'workholic'. Most of the time people stay long hours in office just because it doesn't look nice to be the first one to leave. This does not mean they are working... mostly they chatting away on yahoo or msn.
Yes, a lot of them are hard working, but they have to do that to survive in their job. Not many people do that because they want to do that... majority know that if they don't come up with the goods, they'll be moved aside for someone else. If you have lived in India, you can appreciate how stiff the competition is, you have to work hard to stay in the game... right from school level.

Saying that India is the 3rd biggest economy, you should also look at the size of the population... 3rd biggest economy doesn't mean anything if there's so much widespread poverty everywhere. These things should be taken "in context".
India is a major developing nation and is definitely on the right track... but there's a lot more to be done.

[simar]

funnily in his message Mr simar says that ' You really want to help india. Just work hard to be contractor etc...'

You just assume that an Indian has to work hard and will work hard. By the way I dont think India needs this type of help any more - it is the 3rd largest econmy today in the world.

Now do u say that to a brit - 'work hard'.

In the projects i have seen indian / chinese people work whether day or night at personal sacrifice. Brits most of them are managers - and dont cancel their vacations or pre-arranged personal plans whatever the stage. In a job earlier - I had seen a few chinese people who were always in office before anyone was there and left after everyone else. The boss completetly relied on them being there and solving issues any time.

Oh I take my words back, I though I am writing to Indian but you not.
Of course it is win-win situation for both uk & India to have more business and job relations.
The heading of this article is certainly offending and should be avoided. May I request the moderators to change the heading of this article.

[sudeep_n]

mr simar said "Oh I take my words back, I though I am writing to Indian but you not.
Of course it is win-win situation for both uk & India to have more business and job relations.
The heading of this article is certainly offending and should be avoided. May I request the moderators to change the heading of this article."[/quote]

Interesting that mr simar view changes based on who he is talking to. if he is talking to indian he can manage to be arrogant and authoritative.

Heading cannot be changed by moderators here. You need to send that request to the people who published www.timesofindia.com

mhunjn - true. but today's situation means whether by necessity or otherwise chinese, russians, idians are working hard. And is appreciated by British MP - dont ignore that. in fact they have appointed noted Indian industrialist ratan tata to advise UK govt on how to improve the sluggish and downward spiraling economy. and see the immigrants being welcomed from many countries - if u look chinese and indians are top on the list of people being welcomed. Least because they are less competitive and productive or they are chat experts.

and no one is genralising the statements therein. My american friend stays in Bangalore and says that it is more develped than the US and there r more rich in bangalore than most major cities in US. he doesnt feelout of place in banglaore he is stayin there for 5 yrs now - doesnt want to go back to states. Wake up and work up

[mhunjn]

I take it that your comment is a joke?... I have never been to Bangalore, but some colleagues who went there last week felt that it was a city of contrasts... big multinational complexes, and starved and poor people on the roadside and ofcourse the lack of infrastructure. Some of my good friends who live and work there have the same opinion.
If that's the most developed place in India... I don't even want to think about the other smaller and less developed towns!...

I would like to repeat here that India is definitely a very progressive country... but still far from claims that a lot of people make!... when looking at the overall picture, you should not look only at the main and big cities as they'll always be the first ones to be on the development schedule. Four developed cities don't make the entire country the size of India developed.

and no one is genralising the statements therein. My american friend stays in Bangalore and says that it is more develped than the US

[sudeep_n]

now some colleagues of yours went for a few days and an american staying there for 5 years...of course we have to believe the visitors....

anyways....point is not at what stage these economies are today....point is who is working harder....who has better potential......may be some people say like the MP in this article - the economies growing at 8-10% pa - the chinese, brasilian, russians, koreans and so on.....and stagnating econonies growing at a pace of 2% need to wake up and look how they can grow at the pace the world is growin....