Free movement is NON-EXISTENT for non-EU family members!!

[MSH]

This post is to inform everybody reading this board that the notion that EU countries are somehow 'obligated' to comply with Directive 2004/38/EC or that you as a citizen of the European Union have certain 'rights' IS FALSE.

I, like most Europeans, naively wrote to the EU Signpost legal advice service asking them how to ensure my wife, a national of the AFRICAN country Guinea-Bissau can return with me to my own country, Denmark, from where we intended to move to Sweden.

They told me she had the 'right' to accompany me anywhere in the Union, based on the fact she was the spouse of a EU citizen.

Yeah, right.

After having tried to get an entry-visa issued for her at the Dutch, Spanish and German embassies in Dakar, Senegal as well as having tried at the Danish consulate in the Gambia and the Danish embassy in Bamako, Mali FOR OVER A MONTH all we have to show for our efforts is disillusionment and empty pockets.

NONE OF THE EUROPEAN REPRESENTATIONS WANTED TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THE EXISTENCE OF A DIRECTIVE ON FREE MOVEMENT let alone issue an entry visa to the Schengen-area to my wife.

As for Solvit... well, let's just say contacting them was a complete waste of time and money. Danish and Swedish Solvit didn't think any violation of the Directive had taken place (?!)..

So to anyone thinking they can go outside the borders of Eurpoe and somehow return with a spouse from a so-called 'immigration-country' because it's their magical 'right' and because somebody in the EU tells them it is so, THINK AGAIN!

It's NOT gonna happen.

(If they at least printed the Directive on soft tissue paper there would be a use for it..)

[86ti]

If you want to return to your own country from outside the EEA/Switzerland you cannot derive any rights from the Directive. You would have to apply via Danish national law. If you want to go straight to Sweden or any other member state for any reason then their embassy would have to issue with an entry visa. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to mean that embassies would do the right thing.

[ST701]

man...

tell me abt the pain... I am trying to get this sorted out for more than 6 months... people seem to post and talk abt the directive but in practice none of the embassies follow it... they take a piss and know u cant do nothing from the third world country...SOLVIT only helps to people already in EU and fighting for something they can go to the court for and get sorted out as they can afford the lawyers and they know they can sue the embassies... let me know if u get any success cause its a real shame that administrative errors dont mean nothing when u r out of EU.....good luck bro

[MSH]

If you want to return to your own country from outside the EEA/Switzerland you cannot derive any rights from the Directive. You would have to apply via Danish national law. If you want to go straight to Sweden or any other member state for any reason then their embassy would have to issue with an entry visa. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to mean that embassies would do the right thing.

EXACTLY. Like say, if I wanted to go to Holland on a combined business trip/honey-moon.. except the Dutch wouldn't even let us in to the embassy to APPLY during their opening hours. Or answer their phone. Wonder what people in dire need of consular assistance do.. they probably DIE in the gutter outside the embassy..

I have of course filed a formal complaint with the Commission and have received a standard email expressing they will 'look into my complaint' but I expect nothing to come of it.

As long as the EU reperesentations STATE on their website that they comply, they're good. They obviously don't have to ACTUALLY comply with anything.

[MelC]

I am in a "third country" and i would agree that it is a nightmare ~ I often think that the METOCK ruling hasn't filtered down to the staff at embassies, deliberately or not its how it looks to me, I can state, with documented proof 4 sperate EU state embassies in this one little country who are all doing their level best to keep non-eu spouses out!

only 1 so far has reached the attention of the commission, but i intend to make it my goal to get all 4 in there and get this situation dealt with!

tip for dealing with SOLVIT ~ don' ask them anything ~ demand it, and back it up with copies of the directive etc it has worked so far for me ~ but like you its the long hard expensive slog ~ expensive for us as we are stuck here until we can move with passports running out and other documents will start to get close soon ~ we should have been out of here months ago!!

[acme4242]

yes Melc, sadly it really seems true, the promise of rights and the ECJ case law
that guarantees lawful rights such as the freedom of movement
seems to be ignored by Government administrations

Solvit seem work shy dodgers, who fob you off until you give up on them.

The latest EU citizens rights information website is very disheartening.

[MelC]

yes Melc, sadly it really seems true, the promise of rights and the ECJ case law
that guarantees lawful rights such as the freedom of movement
seems to be ignored by Government administrations

Solvit seem work shy dodgers, who fob you off until you give up on them.

The latest EU citizens rights information website is very disheartening.

it seems like its all fluff and no substance ~ and govt's know it, thier embassies know it! they know that they can keep you hanging on for months for a free visa, that should be issued within 15 days ~ (I have known 1 issued same day but a 4 month fight to get into the embassy first!)
that they have no right to refuse unless you are some serious problem to the world at large ~ everything is buried in the new website ~ for anyone who is looking for the fist time they would be hard pressed to find what they are looking for.

i had seen solvit at work ~ hence my comments, and it is how i dealt with them, and they have been much more receptive but they are very anti free movement from my experiences thus far.

[acme4242]

Everyone must fight for their own rights, and the starting point is knowledge.

All Government employees in all these Embassies will consider that
you have no lawful rights.
Sometimes this is because they lack education and training.

In the case of Italy, please read their National law, where they implemented the EU directive 2004/38/EC on free movement.

http://www.unipa.it/%7Ecdl/guriall/guri ... dlgs30.htm

Google translator can help, if you cannot read Italian

For the staff in the Embassy, You should push this under their nose.

[MelC]

Everyone must fight for their own rights, and the starting point is knowledge.

All Government employees in all these Embassies will consider that
you have no lawful rights.
Sometimes this is because they lack education and training.

In the case of Italy, please read their National law, where they implemented the EU directive 2004/38/EC on free movement.

http://www.unipa.it/%7Ecdl/guriall/guri ... dlgs30.htm

Google translator can help, if you cannot read Italian

For the staff in the Embassy, You should push this under their nose.

I agree that the rights must be fought for, but wonder if one voice is enough when several can make more "organised" noise?

when i ocntacted 'SOLVIT i included a previous case, and that they had waited 9 weeks for a reply to get the consent form ~ i pointed out that i was not prepared to wait blah blah its been 4 weeks in total and i do know that ~SOLVIT italy have alredy contacted the italian foreign ministry twice -second time was to add info.
its not as though we are "fighting" for some equal right like emily pankhurst ~ its a conferred right ~ maybe the problem with the "union" is that there are 27 independant parts of it?

thanks for the link, i do have a pdf somewhere of it in italian but you can be sure it will be pasted on someones foreheadl

has anyone got a link to the guide in italian? and i must get memo com313 final in italian! im sure i have somewhere!!

[acme4242]

its not as though we are "fighting" for some equal right like emily pankhurst ~ its a conferred right
:
:
has anyone got a link to the guide in italian? and i must get memo com313 final in italian! im sure i have somewhere!!

fair point,

here is the Commission Guide in Italian,
just change the language indicator in the link,
e.g. EN is English, IT is Italian.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:IT:PDF

COMMUNICATION FROM THE COMMISSION
TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND THE COUNCIL
on guidance for better transposition and application of Directive
2004/38/EC on the right of citizens of the Union and their family
members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member
States

[MelC]

thanks for the link, i have now been navigating around the "old" site all morning ~ much easier!!

italian versions duly saved, copies printed, highlighted and noted, and paragraphs ready and waiting in ~SOLVIT UK and ITALY and YOUREUROPES inboxes for them!

my own issue concerns passport validity ~ and nowhere does it state a length of time for said validity, only that one is valid!

the dance the italians have led us has created a situation where my husbands passport doesn't have a great deal of time, however it is still VALID!!

[Fairtrade]

there are about 500 million people living in the EU. Next time make sure you marry someone from the EU and you will have a lot less problems.

[MSH]

there are about 500 million people living in the EU. Next time make sure you marry someone from the EU and you will have a lot less problems.

I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm but honestly, not even some anonnymous moron on the internet could convince me that I want to marry anyone other than my beautiful wife.

I want to take this opportunity to encourage the other posters in this thread who have found themselves on the receiving end of the discriminatory policy of the EU representations in Africa or elsewhere to follow through and report the abuse of power to the European Commission.

It is unfortunately the only way available to combat institutionalised beloved in Europe when it manifests itself in the visa practices of EU member states.

Go here to lodge your complaint:

http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/your_ ... rms_en.htm

MSH.

[MelC]

MSH ~ you might be interested to know ~ we got a call TUESDAY to go to the embassy WEDNESDAY ~ seems the solvits system works?

until we got there and they demanded MY residence card for italy????
hubby's bank statment, hotel resservation, return ticket?????

i very politely handed them the directive, the guide, and com 313 all in italian, along with emails from "your Europe" and they (italian embassy staff) THREW them back at me huffing and puffing, told my husband in Arabic that as I am a brit he should go to the british embassy get them to give him a visa, they then made derogatory remarks about me in italian, as it was obvious my italina was very limited, but hubby is fluent!!! he was furious, then they called the police to REMOVE US!!! the police would not!
then we were told to go to the main embassy and they would deal with it as no such visa was done form the visa section?? we got there, with a persons name for an appointment to find that we were only given a number to call to make an appointment ~

it was a fun day NOT

i emailed all and sundry and gave them 24 hours to respond ~ which the ambassadors office did, as ter i reminded them that the buck stopped with him and it was his staff that were way out of order etc, anyway have sent them photocopies via email of passports and marriage cert but the ambassadors office say they will clarify my husbands position????

i stated in my reply, its OK the directve 2004/38 clarifie it very well thank you ~ i sent them copies of it. that was friday, so will see what this week brings as they said they will call me to go and see them and "clarify my husbands position"

The EU commission doen'st do enough, and what it does do is WAY TOO SLOW!!

[MelC]

Oh and i had confimration that VALID passport means that as long as it is valid on the date of entry or exit its fine, from Your Europe.

I think we all know the law, the directive is pretty clear-ish, the guide clears up a few points and com 313 the rest ~
so why aqre embassy staff not trained??

I won'der whaqt other thirs countries are having this performance?

we are in North Africa!

[MelC]

we got another call from the embassy, well the senior counsellor? i think that should have said "consular" but got lost in translation, after a week of me complaining everywhere ~ we went back to the embassy, within an hour i would add, and they were sitting ready and waiting to producte the visa ~ and hubby will go and get it on monday ~ HOWEVER ~ italy only has 2 types of visa ~ national or schengen!!

so they are putting a schengen visa in his passport!!!!!!!!!

unless they state that this is in lieu of an accompanying spouse visa we are no further forward as the rules for schengen and eu are different with regards to work etc and it will be a nightmare as my husband will be treated differently ~ might ask them to send his passport to an italian embassy that does have a computer that can produce the correct visa as the one here cant (the computer says NO!)

i see more problems than solutions with this!

thoughts anyone?????

[MSH]

we got another call from the embassy, well the senior counsellor? i think that should have said "consular" but got lost in translation, after a week of me complaining everywhere ~ we went back to the embassy, within an hour i would add, and they were sitting ready and waiting to producte the visa ~ and hubby will go and get it on monday ~ HOWEVER ~ italy only has 2 types of visa ~ national or schengen!!

so they are putting a schengen visa in his passport!!!!!!!!!

unless they state that this is in lieu of an accompanying spouse visa we are no further forward as the rules for schengen and eu are different with regards to work etc and it will be a nightmare as my husband will be treated differently ~ might ask them to send his passport to an italian embassy that does have a computer that can produce the correct visa as the one here cant (the computer says NO!)

i see more problems than solutions with this!

thoughts anyone?????

No this is correct. There IS no special visa "for spouses of EU citizens", only the regular Schengen 3 months tourist visa.

The difference between the two is that you don't have to pay for the EU spouse related visa and that it's "faster" * cough -bullsh*t- cough *

Congratulatiuons on getting the visa after all your struggling.. now, you have to start the process of settling as an EU citizen exercising your right to free movement in another member state (Italy) and take it from there when you and your husband arrive.

(My own wife is coming very soon too.. we finally got a NATIONAL visa for Denmark and will be moving to Sweden as soon as she is here with me).

Clearly though, the 'entry visa' from directive 2004/38/EC is a complete JOKE if it wasn't because thousands of law-abiding, hard-working, NON-CRIMINAL EU citizens and their third-country spouses get caught up in the MESS and SHAMBLES left by the passivity of the Commision in enforcing our so-called 'right' to free movement.

Do go to the link I provided and COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN!!! Only way of forcing the EU commission to get off their fat hinies and DO SOMETHING about this travesty of justice.

Best regards,

MSH.

[MelC]

hun, I have to disagree, THERE IS A SPECIAL VISA!!! my friends hubby has it in his passport, and I have a image of both Schengen and EU visa ~ i will send them to you via pm as i doubt that pics are possible on the forum.

my freinds hubbys visa clearly states EU family visa.

his visa is France, and that took some getting too, but at least they don't have to keep explaining that its not really a schengen but the computer doen'st know what else to produce!

and it puts my husband under Schengen rules ~ hes worried about them trying to deport him as he will be staying longer than 90 days!!

and CONGRATS on getting your visa!!!

[acme4242]

Well done, You have 90 days to apply for a residence permit after entry.

To understand the exact details of EU visa stickers,
even to decode the machine codes at the bottom, its in the annex
of the visa code.

Handbook instruction goes along with the new visa code

7. ‘TYPE OF VISA’ heading:

In order to facilitate matters for the control authorities, this heading specifies the type of visa using the letters A, C and D as follows:

A: airport transit visa (as defined in Article 2(5) of this Regulation)

C: visa (as defined in Article 2(2) of this Regulation)

D: long-stay visa

The visa comments section should say "spouse of EU citizen" or "EU family"

[MelC]

As is typical, my disk has decided not to run and corrupt itself with the images on it so i cant show you them, the italian embassy has no facility to put anything on the schengen visa to state that its EU spouse visa or EU family visa ~ it will say tourist!! it might of course say family reunifiaction ~ which is as close as they can get, but that would still imply that the visa is Schengen not EU if you see what I mean.

that is the problem we will be facing!

we will see tomorrow exactly what my husbands visa says, as they actually did the visa whilst we waited, but asked us to go back as they are going to see if a computer programmer can get in and change thier computer, I think thats what he meant ~ My italian is not that good YET!

my friends hubbys visa is definately different. they are already in france, i will have to get a copy of it when i visit them. and it does state EU family on his.

one day lets hope that everyone covered by the directive will be able to go to ANY embassy, state why they are there, and be seen quickly and have the visa's issued within a reasonable period of time, that depends purly on the workload of hte staff at the time, purely by producing the DIRECTIVE required documents.

I can dream huh? or I can do my best to see that dream become reality!

[MelC]

have just broken my own golden rule here ~ and looked in hubbys pocket in his wallet ~ we go on monday 11th at 2.30 to collect the visa ~

90 day multi TOURIST (TOURISMO)
thats what the visa is being issued as.

so we will encounter problems at the port of exit, port of entry, administration offices in italy etc,

I have already asked the embassy to provide an acommpanying letter to confirm my husbands status.

and 90 day tourist multi entry is not 6 months single entry family ~ which is what they did tell us ~ emmm, maybe i should get them to change it!

[acme4242]

you got the right visa, remember a visa is only to allow entry, after that you need to do the real thing, that is apply for a residence permit.

While it helps that the visa comments say EU family, it really doesn't
matter.

Oh.. and before anyone else says, yes, technically EU family members
don't even need a visa, as they have an automatic right of entry, the
visa is just a wee bureaucratic exercise.

Anyway, I wish you good luck.

[MelC]

yes we all know that a visa isn't neccesary, but try EXITING certain countires without one! that is the problem we faced.

and the visa SHOULD distinguish between third country nationals and third country FAMILY members, who have rights and priviledges that TCN's dont.

I know that we will get asked for hubbys return ticket at entry port, as he won't have one, but as a TOURIST on a schengen visa a TCN should have a return ticket ~ so it will be a battle to get the ferry port staff to accept what the embassy wouldn't without a fight!

THEY can refuse my husband boarding! the directive isn't going to mean a thing to them!

BUT if the visa said "EU family" at least we would appear to have a better chance of PROVING his status if we need to ~

do you see where I am coming from? and as so many people are haivng so much trouble with the visa, in the EU, can you expect an afrcan nation to know about the directive or to even care?

[MelC]

We collectedthe visa yesterday and we went to the ferry port, and explained the situation, and as far as they are concerned ~ my husband needs to comply with tourist visa regulations or they will refuse him boarding!!!

his visa is tourist is all they can say!!!!

point proven huh?

[acme4242]

We collectedthe visa yesterday and we went to the ferry port, and explained the situation, and as far as they are concerned ~ my husband needs to comply with tourist visa regulations or they will refuse him boarding!!!

his visa is tourist is all they can say!!!!

point proven huh?

yes, point taken, and I guess this was the Ferry Port visa checking staff
not Schengen Border Guard.
I was only saying you do have a lawful right, but as you point out,
its lost on clueless "visa checking staff"

The Law seems not worth the paper its written on, if they
can ignore it without comeback. like visa checking staff at
airport or ferry.

Even many Schengen Border Guards, don't have a clue about the
Schengen Border Guard Handbook

6. Persons enjoying the Community right of freemovement
are nationals of EU Member States, EEA countries
and Switzerland, as well as members of their family,
regardless of their nationality, accompanying or joining them.

3. Special rules for checks on certain categories of persons
3.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement
3.1.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement are
authorised to cross the border of a Member State on the basis of the
following documents, as a general rule:
– EU, EEA, CH citizens: identity card or passport;
– members of the family of EU, EEA, CH citizens
who are nationals of a third country: passport.

They may also be required to have an entry visa,
if they are nationals of a third country subject to the
visa obligation, unless they are in possession
of a valid residence permit or card, issued by a Member
State (or by EEA countries or CH).

4.2 No entry or exit stamp must be affixed in the following cases:
4.3 The travel document of family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens
who are third country nationals must also be stamped, unless they present a
residence permit or card with the indication family member of an EU
citizen or family member of an EEA or CH citizen.