Best way to live with my girlfriend

[hwyl]

Thanks for your comments again guys.

I'm really nervous about the whole border control thing now. I honestly never assumed it would be anymore hassle than turning up and presenting her card.

Well, she is of Welsh descent and would really like to explore the country and learn some of the language. That's the truth. But obviously the main reason for staying is to live with me.

She booked the plane ticket long again and is arriving in a week. Actually I think it's for five months (but the flight date can be changed). With regards to visiting more frequently for shorter periods: well, it's very expensive (she lives on the West Coast); she has to enter rental agreements etc in the US, which makes moving out pretty awkward; her parents live over 1000 miles away, if she needs to store furniture. It's just an awkward undertaking for short visits. Also Americans get very few holidays and it doesn't give her much stability giving up jobs all the time and having to find work on return.

Of course, our original intent was simply back to back long stays, before I realised that you needed six month gaps.

I'm really finding trouble appreciating why they are so strict and awkward. She's not just going to disappear because as soon as she did eventually try and fly home, she'd be in major troubel and banned from visiting again.

If she was to tell the complete truth, it's that she's here to be with me because we're a couple and in love. We don't know what it's leading to. She won't need to work and fully intends to comply with visa regulations which will send her home within six months. That said she quit her jobs in America (two part-time jobs), so doesn't have any bona fide letters from employers. I'm guessing that old workplace friends could help her out though. Within this time, she'll be sightseeing, travelling to Europe with me, learning Welsh etc. I'm not quite sure what people are suggesting she say. The above is the truth but if that's going to set off alarm bells...what else should she say instead?

Again, I'd really appreciate the best answer to give, as the truth seems like it won't satisfy them.

[INSIDER]

She cannot switch and would definitely need to return to the USA to obtain a student EC.

She can switch from prospective student which is like a 6 month visitor visa but she has to make it clear that this is what she's here for and not just a reg. visit.

Are you sure about this Elena?

My understanding is that any visa which is six months or less cannot be "upgraded". A prospective student is classed as a special visitor and I lifted this from the UKBA WEBSITE:

Can I switch into another category while I am in the UK as a special visitor?

You are not allowed to change into any other category other than that for which your permission to stay was given.

[ElenaW]

She cannot switch and would definitely need to return to the USA to obtain a student EC.

She can switch from prospective student which is like a 6 month visitor visa but she has to make it clear that this is what she's here for and not just a reg. visit.

Are you sure about this Elena?

My understanding is that any visa which is six months or less cannot be "upgraded". A prospective student is classed as a special visitor and I lifted this from the UKBA WEBSITE:

Can I switch into another category while I am in the UK as a special visitor?

You are not allowed to change into any other category other than that for which your permission to stay was given.

Yes I'm sure. Prospective student "visa" is designed to be able to switch into student status from within the uk.

[Wanderer]

The key term is 'Genuine visitor' - if the IO is not satisfied she is visiting and is actually pursuing a relationship then he could bounce her - and then she'd lose the right to waivered visa and have to apply formally.

[ElenaW]

OP, she needs to say the truth. I see what you're saying about her not really having any job to come back to because of the long stay but the IO will not care. IMO the visit should be cut down to a shorter time. Many couples have dealt with this and it sucks but that's how it is.

[mochyn]

So she is arriving in week and will have a visa stamped in her passport?
It may be overreacting as the Entry Clearing Officer may just let her through and not say anything.Then again he could ask many questions.Its the luck of the draw.
Best thing is to prepare all documentation that they may ask for i.e return ticket, bank statements etc to show ECO that she is going to return back to USA after spending time here.
You may even get a phone call from the UKBA asking if you are going to be supporting her.
The worst thing is the uncertainty of the whole system and most of us here have been on the same rack, some still on it.
Let us know how things turn out and if you need further help come back and ask.
There are a lot of knowledgable people here who will help

[angel32]

hwyl I understand where you're coming from. I leave on Thursday for a 3.5 month visit with my British bf. I wasn't much worried about immigration until I started reading around on the internet at these horror stories about denied entries. Now granted you don't see any of the 'it worked out great' stories because those types I suppose don't tend to post their stories. I've been worrying myself sick over entry despite having a letter from my employer granting me leave, a hefty bank balance, an invitation letter from the bf with his bank statements, health insurance certificate, and of course my return ticket. I've had advice to lie, to minimize the situation, change the ticket for a 2 week return, the whole nine yards. I refuse to lie as I'm not doing anything wrong. I have NO intention of working nor overstaying. I think you'll find that those that suggest you lie or be evasive are ones who had to do such things. It is not illegal for your gf to visit you for 5 months. Just make sure you can prove/convince UKBA that she can fund her trip and has something to return to.

[hwyl]

Thanks for your comments again guys. There's no real point making it a shorter visit as she's given up her jobs, accommodation and moved her possessions 1000 miles away to parents just to make a go of this. I can't really turn around and say, "sorry baby, just come for a couple of weeks".

The thing is, if she is pursuing a relationship...why is that necessarily a visa problem? She's still compelled to return within 6 months. An initial long term visit is what may well lead to a fiancee visa and eventual marriage. As we've all discussed, there's no 'relationship' visa category, so regardless of whether you're actually coming for a relationship, unless you've lived with your partner for two years, the IO's only option is 'visitor'. Regardless of intent, that is the only option they provide for people in our situation. Short of a crazy mail-order bride thing, no one's going to bring their girlfriend over on a fiancee visa after only spending a few weeks with them.

I'm still unclear about the best angle. Some people insist that you must tell the truth...which is a relationship. Others caution that should IO suspect that we're in a relationship, they may not grant a visitor visa on arrival.

I've had a chat with her and basically, she'll arrive with letters from her parents, who both work for the US government. The letters will say, "We work for the US government... we make such and such amounts of money a year... this is our only daughter... we regularly provide her with stipends... we are always willing to take full financial responsibility for her should she find herself unable to pay for various neccessities, including but not limited to, plane travel back to the United States... etc.". She doesn't want her previous employers to lie about keeping a job open for her, so wants to say that she has plans to return to grad school in America. I'd be quite happy to talk to the UK Borders People about my ability to fund her stay. She has a return plane ticket. Apparently her bank statment doesn't look too healthy so she's not keen on presenting that! As she's young and recently gradutated from uni, do you think the parental support angle would be enough? I can also scan and email her several of my recent bank statements and wage slips if that would help?

We actually chatted about the whole marriage thing and said that if we faced a stark choice, she'd rather marry me than live without me. So good news there. I'm wondering whether the safest option would be to go along the 'visiting a friend to discover my roots and use it as a base to see more of Europe' for the initial visitor visa. This would be supported by her parents' letters, my financial support should it be needed etc. She goes home in Feb 2011 and we apply for a fiancee visa. Do you guys think that would raise less questions than a 'visitor' who's persuing a relationship (despite the fact that that's the only available visa option for her anyway!)?

Angel32 - I totally agree with you! We're not doing anything illegal and I can't believe that as a tax paying, lifelong UK citizen, I'm having to plot and plan to bring my girlfriend over...when officially, US citizens are entitled to a 6 month visa on arrival! We're dealing with another first world country, a popular tourist destination with a shared language and close family connections for many people. It's hardly like I'm trying to bring in a desperate person fleeing a warzone under the guise of a visitor. Now, instead of looking forward to her visit, I'm desperately worried that she's going to be refused entry...when all she is doing is taking the only available visa option to stay with me!

[mochyn]

Good advice from angel32.
Perhaps she could post her experience on here that would help Hwyl.


Hwyl, does your gf have a credit card?
Anything that shows that she has access to funds for her trip is a bonus.
Maybe an Email from you to show to UKBA that you will support her will also be a bonus

[hwyl]

Thanks Mochyn. Yes she has a credit card - even an emergency one for her dad's account.

I'd be very interested to hear about Angel36's experiences, although if she's flying out on Thurs, it doesn't leave much time for prep. I will send me girlfriend my recent wage slips and bank statements, as well as a covering letter explaining that I'll be providing accommodation and supporting her financially.

I'm still confused about whether to mention that we're a couple and tell the truth...but risk suspicion. Or to stick with the friends angle...and then she returns home at the end of it and gets a fiancee visa? For the time being, my priority is just to get her in in the first place.

Thanks,

[angel32]

I will certainly post my experience as soon as possible and definitely prior to Saturday (unless Friday is spent flying back from the UK after a refused entry!)

My bf and I wrestled a long time with the best approach and ultimately decided honesty is best. If she shows up, lies, and is caught, I've heard that is almost a guaranteed refusal. How would she feel? I would desperately want a do-over and I would forever regret my decision to lie. If she shows up and tells the truth and gets refused, sure, she may regret not trying the lie but if she gets refused because she lies it will drive her insane I would imagine. These I.O.s get weeks of training and years of on the job experience...they've heard it all, know how to catch someone in a lie, and from what I've read are usually quite successful at it.

Another point to consider...most of what you're reading is on the internet. Do people who have a easy time of it get on here and post how easy and great it was? Not normally. Where do people turn when they've been dealt a crap hand and want to complain about it?

I have had people on another board tell me they didn't experience any problems with not having a job. One bloke even said his girl got in with no job and no money! In my opinion, from what I've read and worked out in my head, they want to know you have funds for the trip and that you intend to return home. If I were here I would have my bank statement (no matter how unattractive it is), the letters you mentioned from her parents ALONG with their bank statements, and an invitation letter from you with your bank statements as well. Her letter from her parents needs to state in no uncertain terms when she's due home. As for her intention to returne home, she's just graduated uni and I'm sure her parents wouldn't appreciate paying for a college education for it not to be used. She's taking a bit of a break between uni and finding permanent employment.

My last point...how she comes across. I would think if she comes across as being evasive, trying to hide something, unsure of her story, they're going to question harder. If she comes off as confident, honest, helpful, aren't they more likely to believe her? She needs to stay calm and confident. Dress nicely. Be professional and excited (afterall she's coming to visit her man!)

Are you two freaking out? Because to tell you the truth, I am too!

[PaperPusher]

Do not lie. For a start using deception to get in the UK is a crime. Also friends do not usually put people up for months for free, and have only know each other through a few weeks of face to face contact. Furthermore, American women already have a terrible reputation for lying when coming to stay with their internet boyfriends.

Watch UK Border Force on Sky, the holding room in Heathrow is not particularly luxurious and she could be spending hours in there before a flight home.

http://londonelegance.com/transpondia/u ... sexp.shtml

[Wanderer]

My British friend comes over to UK with his US wife several times a year, she always gets questioned despite the fact they both have 200k plus jobs in US and stay nowhere near the six months in twelve.

She is a genuine visitor, you gf isn't really is she in all honesty?

[angel32]

My British friend comes over to UK with his US wife several times a year, she always gets questioned despite the fact they both have 200k plus jobs in US and stay nowhere near the six months in twelve.

She is a genuine visitor, you gf isn't really is she in all honesty?

Of course she gets questioned...everyone gets questioned as to their purpose for visiting. Do they ever get refused entry after proving their funds and jobs?

I think that his girlfriend, like me perhaps, is a genuine visitor in that she does intend to go back to the U.S. when her visit visa expires. If she intends to visit him, not work, and not overstay isn't she a genuine visitor?

[Wanderer]

My British friend comes over to UK with his US wife several times a year, she always gets questioned despite the fact they both have 200k plus jobs in US and stay nowhere near the six months in twelve.

She is a genuine visitor, you gf isn't really is she in all honesty?

Of course she gets questioned...everyone gets questioned as to their purpose for visiting. Do they ever get refused entry after proving their funds and jobs?

I think that his girlfriend, like me perhaps, is a genuine visitor in that she does intend to go back to the U.S. when her visit visa expires. If she intends to visit him, not work, and not overstay isn't she a genuine visitor?

I meant taken into a room and questioned or like an hour! I know I waited last time!

Visitor/living together for a bit? Hard one to call for me, depends on mood of IO.....

[hwyl]

Thanks for you comments yet again guys. I know everyone's trying to help...but the people who are telling us not lie don't seem to appreciate that visitor is the only category available for her. Hence, she has to have a 'story' to go with that.

As far as the I.O. know, we could have travelled round the world together for a year (as she has numerous European stamps in her passport from 2009). They know nothing of our background and relationship other than what my gf tells them.

Having considered everything, I think the fail safe route is that she's saved since graduating to do a bit of travelling. I've kindly offered to let her stay with me in between trips (but her parents will be supporting her financially). She'll use my home as a base to see different places and absorb a bit of the culture before returning to grad school in the States. Her parents will deposit several thousand dollars in her bank, so the balance looks healthier. She'll have Bank statements and letters explaining from her parents of material support should she need it and of her return to the States after five months. I guess once her time is up, she'll return on a fiancee visa. We both just think that this is the most hassle-free way of doing it.

None of the above is really a lie because she does intend to take trips to Europe and she will have no choice but to return in Feb, whether for grad school or whatever. She's confident, personable and charming and I'm crossing my fingers all will work out well. Although, why my tax payers' money is funding this sort of treatment for somebody that's done absolutley nothing wrong according to I.O.'s own definitions, I don't know!

At the end of the day, if I.O. want to waste their time grilling someone who's highly unlikely to do anything illegal like work or overstay, then that's their perogative. We have a clear story and evidence to back it up. We'd rather be honest, but all the advice seems to be that visiting partners spells a load of trouble.

Thanks for offering to post about your experience asap Angel32. We were never worried up until reading all the posts here. Like I said, I'm flabbergasted that it's such an issue...all based on a seemingly very unlikely possibility that you might do something wrong. I mean, how many American citizens overstay their visas or work illegally each year? It's just not really that type of place. I also agree with your point that my gf will be a visitor in terms of she won't be working and or trying to put down roots (on this trip). If and when she does finally do that, we'll do it that proper route, through a fiancee visa.

[ElenaW]

I mean, how many American citizens overstay their visas or work illegally each year?

Americans are the biggest rule breakers in terms of immigration probably because of arrogance or ignorance whichever but still they are not as innocent as you think and ignorance/arrogance is not an excuse to do as they please in a country which they are not citizens of. By the way, I'm American and I'm having a hard time proving to be different because of the stereotypes (based on lots of truth!) but atleast I follow the laws.

[hwyl]

I've just had a thought guys. Would it be plausible to tell the truth like this:

- her and I are a couple. Explain how me initially met, stayed in contact, I went out to stay with her etc etc

- we'd like to live together for an intial period (during which she'll be travelling etc)

- If it all works out she'll go back to the US and apply to return on a fiancee visa.

How do you think this will cut it? It's the truth and a pretty natural path to me. You can't really expect people to be under obligation to marry without having lived with each other for a least a bit, right?

Or would they simply take the view that she should have applied for a fiancee visa in the first place and thus reject her?

Also would our intial plan of a 'friends' angle prejudice any future fiancee application, r.e the fact that we've got dozens and dozens of long emails to prove a sustained relationship, which would obviously predate her first visit? Or is this simply oral information that happens at the border and will not be recorded for future visa assesment?

Thanks,

[ElenaW]

Or is this simply oral information that happens at the border and will not be recorded for future visa assesment?

I have wondered if what you say at the border gets recorded too. Mr rusty would know this.

From what it looks like, it doesn't get recorded. They don't seem to note down anything I say anyways. I just get a stamp when they are satisfied but that's just my experience so I have no idea.

I think the only time it gets ugly and recorded is when they catch you out in a lie and need to refuse you entry for deception.

[PaperPusher]

Fiancé visas are for people who are going to get married within six months, so not appropiate if not getting married.

The difficulty with long stays in the UK is showing that you will return and can afford a long stay.

Lots of people stay in the UK for months visiting friends, family or partners. Your situation is not unusual, just do not lie, the consequences could be much worse than being refused entry at the airport.

And US citizens do overstay and work illegaly.

[hwyl]

Ok, I take the point that you should avoid lying in case you get caught out. Seeing as she will now have a healthy bank balance, letters mentioning her return to grad school in the US by her US government employee parents, would it now be fine to be truthful about our relationship?

That would then allow me to provide a letter stating that I can support her and provide accommodation, accompanied by my pay slips and bank statments.

Is it also plausible to say that, yes, we are pretty serious about each other but that she will return to the US, where I will then visit her on an extended stay?

I've chatted to other people about this and they don't really understand why it would be a problem being truthful about our relationship. Obviously people do find themselves in this situation, and most would naturally want to test the waters before committing to marriage. As long as she has the funds and a reason to return home, can I put my worries aside (a little bit)? I guess being truthful about me being her bf and ready and willing to support her also makes a long stay plausible in I.O. eyes.

Thanks,

[Wanderer]

Ok, I take the point that you should avoid lying in case you get caught out. Seeing as she will now have a healthy bank balance, letters mentioning her return to grad school in the US by her US government employee parents, would it now be fine to be truthful about our relationship?

That would then allow me to provide a letter stating that I can support her and provide accommodation, accompanied by my pay slips and bank statments.

Is it also plausible to say that, yes, we are pretty serious about each other but that she will return to the US, where I will then visit her on an extended stay?

I've chatted to other people about this and they don't really understand why it would be a problem being truthful about our relationship. Obviously people do find themselves in this situation, and most would naturally want to test the waters before committing to marriage. As long as she has the funds and a reason to return home, can I put my worries aside (a little bit)? I guess being truthful about me being her bf and ready and willing to support her also makes a long stay plausible in I.O. eyes.

Thanks,

It's because the IO's are trained to be suspicious, if you've got a CV in your bag you are looking for job and attempting to settle - denied, bounced.

If you have a penpal in UK and u r looking at wedding venues, you are not a visitor and you are attempting to settle.

If you are coming her to look at Cathedrals and take photos you are a visitor, come in and spend your dollars....

But very few people can afford to holiday for the full six months and straight away the alarm bells are ringing.

We've all been in the same boat, we've all well, not lied but used student/work PSW visas to our advantage, but playing the international dating game in visit visas is sailing very close to the wind my friends and it only takes one bored IO, or one innocent CV/resume left in your bag, or one discrepancy between what she says and what u say on the phone and it's no more visa-waiver and suspicion all the way to British Citizenship.

The visa system doesn't cater for international dating, and to honest, rightly so. No matter what you say about your relationship the statistical fact is, the vast majority fail, believe me! But there's enough slack in the system to encourage the keen, and weed out the hopefuls, use then you your advantage with lots of nous, and lots of cash, this isn't a cheap game as I can vouch 30k later but happy!

Good luck.

[angel32]

Ok, I take the point that you should avoid lying in case you get caught out. Seeing as she will now have a healthy bank balance, letters mentioning her return to grad school in the US by her US government employee parents, would it now be fine to be truthful about our relationship?

That would then allow me to provide a letter stating that I can support her and provide accommodation, accompanied by my pay slips and bank statments.

Is it also plausible to say that, yes, we are pretty serious about each other but that she will return to the US, where I will then visit her on an extended stay?

I've chatted to other people about this and they don't really understand why it would be a problem being truthful about our relationship. Obviously people do find themselves in this situation, and most would naturally want to test the waters before committing to marriage. As long as she has the funds and a reason to return home, can I put my worries aside (a little bit)? I guess being truthful about me being her bf and ready and willing to support her also makes a long stay plausible in I.O. eyes.

Thanks,

It's because the IO's are trained to be suspicious, if you've got a CV in your bag you are looking for job and attempting to settle - denied, bounced.

If you have a penpal in UK and u r looking at wedding venues, you are not a visitor and you are attempting to settle.

If you are coming her to look at Cathedrals and take photos you are a visitor, come in and spend your dollars....

But very few people can afford to holiday for the full six months and straight away the alarm bells are ringing.

We've all been in the same boat, we've all well, not lied but used student/work PSW visas to our advantage, but playing the international dating game in visit visas is sailing very close to the wind my friends and it only takes one bored IO, or one innocent CV/resume left in your bag, or one discrepancy between what she says and what u say on the phone and it's no more visa-waiver and suspicion all the way to British Citizenship.

The visa system doesn't cater for international dating, and to honest, rightly so. No matter what you say about your relationship the statistical fact is, the vast majority fail, believe me! But there's enough slack in the system to encourage the keen, and weed out the hopefuls, use then you your advantage with lots of nous, and lots of cash, this isn't a cheap game as I can vouch 30k later but happy!

Good luck.

Do you have any suggestions or experience as to what an appropriate amount of money is to have in the bank for a 3.5 month holiday?

[ElenaW]

The visa system doesn't cater for international dating, and to honest, rightly so. No matter what you say about your relationship the statistical fact is, the vast majority fail, believe me! But there's enough slack in the system to encourage the keen, and weed out the hopefuls, use then you your advantage with lots of nous, and lots of cash, this isn't a cheap game as I can vouch 30k later but happy!

well said! Me 50k later and counting but happy

OP what everyone is trying to say is that if your gf was visitng you for two weeks, then she could have said her main point of visit was to check out Wales. It's not really a lie as that's what she'd be basically doing. But because she's coming for the full amount of time and will be living with you, it doesn't take a genius to spot this deception. So yes in your case deffinitely need to mention the relationship.

[hwyl]

But it's not deception because what other visa would she qualify for???

Again, as long as she can bank roll her stay and has a return ticket and reason to return, what is difference how she spends her time here? As long as the fulfils the return home and don't work rules, who are earth is being harmed if she's cuddling up with her boyfriend instead of taking pictures of castles??? She can't just settle like that.

I honestly don't see what I.O. are trying to act as 'relationship police'! As long as we do things legally, it shouldn't really be any of their business who marries who. I'm quite surprised that most posters just seem to accept the situation instead of being angry and prostesing again it. I can't see any moral or legal reason why somebody shouldn't visit to live with their bf.

People have brought up travelling for six months as unusual. Most of the people I know have gone travelling for extended periods of time, even as long as a year or more. Granted, it's normally visiting several countries but it's sometimes single destination. We're allowed to take a career break in my workplace and some people will visit family in Australia for as long as they're allowed on visa etc. I don't see anything unsual in this at all.

To the post who thinks that I.O. are tough on international dating and rightly so. I just take the view that in the vast majority of cases, "what's the worst that can happen?". The relationship doesn't work out and they go home. So what? They've taken no one's job or accommodation, they've claimed no benefits, and they've spend a lot of money in the country. I don't see who's being harmed by any of this? As long as a foreign bf/gf is being supported by a citizen, I don't understand why they can't stay as long as they want. Few employees will take illegal workers and they risk prosecution should they work. But don't punish people before they're actually done anything wrong. The current rules are ridiculous to anyone not in the immigration forum world. Every 'outsider' has expressed shock at the situation and taken the same "what's the problem?" attitude as me.

Ok, this has turned into a rant, but surely it's ENTIRELY sensible that oversees couples want to live together before deciding on eventual marriage. It's bad enough that you're pressured into marriage in the first place just to be together but it takes the biscuit that you're also not supposed to 'try out' living together for six months, despite being supported by a citizen AND legally obliged to return (which you'd have very little future if you ignored anyway). A two week visit is hardly enough to base a mariage proposal upon. Thoughts?