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Mother!

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JuniorJunior
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Mother!

Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:26 am

Hi there, I have a small issue I wanted some advice on.

Here goes.

My mother is a Canadian national and is 80 years old.

My Father passed away in Jan of this year in India. I flew out to India early Jan before the death and since then I have supported my mother both financially and emotionally.

She entered the UK on Feb 24th and her visa will expire Aug 24th i.e. Tuesday!

Prior to October 2008, my parents lived in Canada with my brother, however, without going in to any details due to a issue with my fathers will, my brother no longer speaks to our mother. As a result, if she has to go back to Canada she will not have anywhere to stay!

I could meet the Set F requirements except for proving she is financially dependant on me.

Is there any application I can complete that will allow her to stay on compassionate grounds?

She is 80 and has trouble walking. The Doctor that has seen her a few times is away. I have ample living space, she won't be having nay recourse to public funds also.

I am in the process of completing a FLR (o) as a Set F would fall at the requirements hurdle.

Any help in this would be appreciated!

Regards.
Last edited by JuniorJunior on Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:38 am

Grandma or mother?
JuniorJunior wrote:I could meet the Set F requirements except for proving she is financially dependant on me.
In other words, not meeting one of the key criteria!

See also Older dependent relatives


regards

JuniorJunior
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Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:39 am

I call her Grandma as my kids do. oops should have thought about that.

JuniorJunior
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Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:42 am

sushdmehta wrote:Grandma or mother?
JuniorJunior wrote:I could meet the Set F requirements except for proving she is financially dependant on me.
In other words, not meeting one of the key criteria!

See also Older dependent relatives


regards
I have visited either India and Canada on average 3-5 times a year. I would always leave my parents with some cash (£200/£300) i.e. no Western Union receipts! My father would have enough money to look after her and himself. However, since his death I supported her in India (where they were when father passed away) and the subsequently in the UK since Feb 24th 2010.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:52 am

If she is not wholly dependent on you (financially), then the requirement is not met.

This is perhaps one of the visas that's most difficult to get! Not impossible but surely an uphill task! And perhaps one wherein UKBA makes no leeway!

Go through the information in the links provided. See if you meet the requirements and can provide documentary evidence of the same. And take a decision accordingly. Perhaps you would want to consult a competent lawyer?

Search the forum and you'll find some posts of successful grant of visas too. It all depends on the sponsor meeting the specified requirements.

What is her current visa?


regards

JuniorJunior
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Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:01 pm

She is wholly dependant on me. My brother won't look after her full stop. She has no money, so 'if' they kick her out she will practically be homeless!

Worth putting a strongly worded covering letter with the application for the UKBA to look at this with a common sense approach? Compassionate grounds?

JuniorJunior
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Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:02 pm

Current visa was obtained at the UK border. It's a 6 month visitor visa,

Doe sit also help that she has been to England every year for the past 7-8 years at least once?

geriatrix
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Re: Mother!

Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:03 pm

JuniorJunior wrote:I could meet the Set F requirements except for proving she is financially dependant on me.
JuniorJunior wrote:She is wholly dependant on me.
Contradiction!

regards

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:06 pm

JuniorJunior wrote:Worth putting a strongly worded covering letter with the application for the UKBA to look at this with a common sense approach? Compassionate grounds?
Cover letter isn't going to make your case compassionate ..... submitting evidences to support a claim of compassionate grounds may.Work on that!
JuniorJunior wrote:Current visa was obtained at the UK border. It's a 6 month visitor visa,
Have you checked if she can switch?


regards
Last edited by geriatrix on Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JuniorJunior
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Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:08 pm

Sorry let me clarify, UKBA will want to see that I have supported her in the past right? SO I'd need proof that I have sent her money in the past and she relies on me. However, I have only given a bit of cash here and there during trips to Canada and India.

At this current point in time, she is 101% reliant on me to support her.
Apologies for the confusion.

JuniorJunior
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Post by JuniorJunior » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:11 pm

sushdmehta wrote:
JuniorJunior wrote:Worth putting a strongly worded covering letter with the application for the UKBA to look at this with a common sense approach? Compassionate grounds?
Cover letter isn't going to make your case compassionate ..... submitting evidences to support a claim of compassionate grounds may.Work on that!
JuniorJunior wrote:Current visa was obtained at the UK border. It's a 6 month visitor visa,
Have you checked if she can switch?


regards
I have docs to support like a letter from MP, property report, letter from my daughter in law, son and daughter.

I know my chances are slim but the only reason I'm doing this is so that she can travel to India/Canada in the future. I know that they are not going to drag her on to a plane and boot her out.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:19 pm

JuniorJunior wrote:Sorry let me clarify, UKBA will want to see that I have supported her in the past right? SO I'd need proof that I have sent her money in the past and she relies on me. However, I have only given a bit of cash here and there during trips to Canada and India.
Exactly my point .... where is the evidence that she is financially dependent (wholly) on you and that you have been supporting her financially!

Just of the many criteria that you'll need to provide evidence of!

As suggested, make yourself aware of the requirements and work on compiling the necessary documentary evidence.

AFAIK, she cannot switch from from visitor to dependent relative. Double check with UKBA.


regards

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:04 pm

I think switching is allowed:
(i) is related to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom in one of the following ways:

(a) mother or grandmother who is a widow aged 65 years or over ;...

Yes
...and

(ii) is joining or accompanying a person who is present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; and

Yes, assuming you are settled here

(iii) is financially wholly or mainly dependent on the relative present and settled in the United Kingdom ; and

This bit you need to prove

(iv) can, and will, be accommodated adequately, together with any dependants, without recourse to public funds, in accommodation which the sponsor owns or occupies exclusively; and

And this bit

(iva) can, and will, be maintained adequately, together with any dependants, without recourse to public funds; and

And this bit

(v) has no other close relatives in his own country to whom he could turn for financial support You need to explain why she can't turn to your brother in Canada; and

(vi) if seeking leave to enter, holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity. Not relevant if she applies in-country before her current leave expires
You said you had been supporting your mother since January, when your father died. Has this purely been because she was staying with you in the UK?

Where was your mother living at the time your father died? If she was in India, what was her immigration status there? IF your mother had to go to Canada, can arrangement

I think one of the most difficult things is to show that your mother has no other means of support at all (if that is indeed the case): it's difficult to prove a negative!

I think if your mother literally has nowhere to return to in Canada (i.e. no accommodation arranged etc. and no one who is willing or able to provide it) AND if she has no immigration status in India and no right to live there or expectation of support, then may well be worthwhile making a SET(F) application for her to stay here as your dependant before her current visa expires, and then dealing with evidential issues and a possible appeal etc. if that becomes necessary.

Although I appreciate that no having full receipts or bank evidence now might make you think yuo can't fulfil the criteria, the requirement is that she actually is dependant on you, not that you can produce evidence of that fact. What I mean to say is that even if the only evidence you can provide right now is statements from you and your mother, you may be able to show more formal evidence at some future date that confirms what the position was at the application date.

You will need to sign a declaration of sponsorship, and provide a detailed description of your mother's circumstances. Does she have any money of her own at all? How much and in what form? At what point did she become dependant upon you alone? All things you will need to think about...

Check out Section 6 of Chapter 8 of the relevant guidance:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... schapter8/

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:31 pm

Overstaying in the UK because of ignorance whether switching from visitor is allowed or not is not going to help OP's case. Given that 6 month validity of visitor visa is expiring in the next few days, suggest OP should double check with UKBA directly.



regards

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:24 pm

I don't think I was advising anyone to overstay :?: That's why I suggested that his mother submit the SET(F) application in time even if he doesn't think he has enough evidence yet.

The Rules do not provide for an applicant for ILR in this category to have particular kind of existing leave (IOW, it's not like FLR(M) for example).

Of course he should check with the UKBA, but they have been known to be wrong...

Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:35 pm

Kitty wrote:I don't think I was advising anyone to overstay :?: That's why I suggested that his mother submit the SET(F) application in time even if he doesn't think he has enough evidence yet.
Big risk of £1680......
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:26 pm

That too without required evidence(s) to support the application being submitted!

Also, assuming SET(F) application submitted before expiry of leave to enter / entry clearance as a visitor is considered an in-time application and therefore subject to Section 3C protection. If it doesn't, visitor becomes overstayer the day leave expires, SET(F) application submission date notwithstanding!

Consult a competent solicitor, perhaps?


regards

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:03 am

Yes, I agree that the OP would be risking the application fee, and should consult a solicitor (if he can make an appointment with a decent one within the next few days).

However, his posts made it sound as though his mother literally had nowhere to return to in Canada: no accommodation available to her, and no means of supporting herself.

In those circumstances, it could well be a reasonable decision to put in the application now, within her current visa validity, if for no other reason than out of concern for his mother's wellbeing.

alikhan28
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Post by alikhan28 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:38 pm

Kitty wrote:Yes, I agree that the OP would be risking the application fee, and should consult a solicitor (if he can make an appointment with a decent one within the next few days).

However, his posts made it sound as though his mother literally had nowhere to return to in Canada: no accommodation available to her, and no means of supporting herself.

In those circumstances, it could well be a reasonable decision to put in the application now, within her current visa validity, if for no other reason than out of concern for his mother's wellbeing.
Yes I would go with Kitty on this issue.

Dont stuck on one point Financial dependable.If she is refused then she has a chance in Appeal.And if she applied at time then go for appeal she would not be classed as overstayer.

Can I ask what is her age? If she is more then 60 then she has a very good chance.

Ali

jammybunn
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Post by jammybunn » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:14 am

she will get it on appeal, even if you havent met the rules of proving financial depandnce the AIT will have no chance of removing an 80 year old and will grant accordingly.

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:52 pm

The AIT do not remove anyone, the UKBA does, and the AIT can just dismiss her appeal if she doesn't meet the rules like they do with Zimbabweans who also are not getting removed at the moment.

jammybunn
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Post by jammybunn » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:46 pm

believe me, the appeal tribunal will not dismiss an application for an 80 year old, im 99% certain. I know its UKBA that does the removal but this lady aint going anywhere

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Post by Wanderer » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:50 pm

jammybunn wrote:believe me, the appeal tribunal will not dismiss an application for an 80 year old, im 99% certain. I know its UKBA that does the removal but this lady aint going anywhere
They removed the African woman with cancer a while back and she promply died!
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

alikhan28
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Post by alikhan28 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:08 am

Wanderer wrote:
jammybunn wrote:believe me, the appeal tribunal will not dismiss an application for an 80 year old, im 99% certain. I know its UKBA that does the removal but this lady aint going anywhere
They removed the African woman with cancer a while back and she promply died!
Every case is different and I think ,she has good chance in this case.

Ali
..................................................................................................
This is simply a general discussion not an immigration advice. I not necessarily correct on everything I would say. I am learning too

hunpak
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Post by hunpak » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:00 am

jammybunn wrote:believe me, the appeal tribunal will not dismiss an application for an 80 year old, im 99% certain. I know its UKBA that does the removal but this lady aint going anywhere
give it a try brov ...money has no value in front of parents...

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