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What does 'documents must be originals' mean exactly?

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GrahamD85
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What does 'documents must be originals' mean exactly?

Post by GrahamD85 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:02 pm

Hi guys,

I might be looking into this too much, but on form FLR(M), when it says 'Documents must be originals. Photocopies are not acceptable' does it just mean photocopies are not allowed? The full stop in there seems to suggest more to me. Basically I want to take some bills to my application that have been reprinted, i.e. I've lost the original bills or don't have them and have asked my phone company to resend me the bills. The bills will probably have 'copy' or 'duplicate' written on them but the address will be as it should for that time period.

Is that OK? I might be worrying too much, but I'm wary the officers don't look at them the same as the original bill.

Ta!

GrahamD85
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Post by GrahamD85 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:04 pm

Any ideas guys? Sorry to bump it but I'm sure someone must know...

pennylessinindia
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Post by pennylessinindia » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

I think this is just as it says photocopies are not OK originals are. why do you not have the originals? if the documents are reissued after some time that may be problematic especially if they are supposed to cover a time period
pennyless

GrahamD85
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Post by GrahamD85 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:19 pm

Back then (April 2009) I didn't know this visa existed and so wasn't collecting bills or saving many of them. These were also paperless bills I used to get online.

pennylessinindia
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Post by pennylessinindia » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:26 pm

I should explain this in a letter but make sure you submit the originals of these documents!!
pennyless

GrahamD85
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Post by GrahamD85 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:30 pm

We are applying in person but I'm not sure what you mean. If I could provide the originals I wouldn't have to order these copy versions. The originals are online but the bill viewer will not stretch back that far so I can't print them. Even if I could I don't think the UKBA would accept printed online bills...

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:56 pm

Thge use of terms "Copy" and "Duplicate" is not a problem. Okay to submit as the documents are issued by the body / organisation supposed to issue these documents. (e..g. - I want to keep a bank statement in my possession so request for additional copy from bank to send it to UKBA. The additional copy may state "duplicate" because bank is issuing it to you a second time but is original because it is issued by the bank itself).

Photocopies are not acceptable unless certified as true copies - by the issuer.
Online printouts aren't considered original as well - unless counter signed by issuer - because anyone can use software packages to create "original looking printable" documents.


regards

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:02 pm

If they are documents provided by the phone company (hopefully on their headed paper, or accompanied bya letter that says something to the effect that they are supplying these summaries) then I think they are "originals".

If the phone company has simply sent you a batch of photocopies that look the same as copies you could have made yourself, then see if they will authenticate them as a true record of your billing activity in some other way (stamping the pages, or with a covering letter).

I would address the point if asked, but I don't think you have too much to be concerned about. Imagine you are a suspicious UKBA officer: the idea is to provide documents in a medium that is hard to fake. Photocopies lack the detail that can reassure the officer that the document is acceptable evidence.

GrahamD85
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Post by GrahamD85 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:18 pm

Thanks Kitty, that's what I thought (or hoped!)

They have told me the bills will be watermarked and they are replicas of the bills sent originally, so fingers crossed that means the IO won't view them too suspiciously. Hopefully this means they won't be photocopies because I had to pay £5 for each old bill.

Also, they'll say 'copy' or 'duplicate' on them but they WILL NOT have the date they were reprinted on there, which looks good in my favour. When we went over our documents for the unmarried partner visa I noticed there was a 5 month gap with nothing addressed to me (see below). Even though there were a couple of joint statements I thought it looked dodgy when the real reason was because I didn't know this visa was an option for us, so I called 3 and asked for paper copies of the old ebills. Hopefully the documents below will be enough to see us through.

I included the list below to illustrate my point, I know you can't give advice without being registered. Still a 'looks fine' wouldn't go amiss!

B= Both, joint statement
G= Mine
K= My girlfriends



Sep 08 – Joint bank statement (B), credit card statement (G)

Oct 08 – Joint bank statement (B), Council tax bill for me (G), Bank statement (K)

Nov 08 – Joint bank statement (B), Electricity statement (B), credit card statement (G)

Dec 08 – Bank statement (K), letter confirming job (K)

Jan 09 – Joint bank statement (B), credit card statement (G), Electricity statement (B), Bank statement (K), Car insurance letter (G)

Feb 09 – Joint bank statement (B), NHS letter (K), credit card statement (G)

Mar 09 – Water statement (B), Bank statement (K), Council Tax statement (G), Virgin bill (G)

Apr 09 – P45 from VS job (K), Bank statement (K), 3 bill DUPLICATE (G), hotel invoice (G)

May 09 - Can't find anything :(

Jun 09 - Bank statement (K), 3 bill DUPLICATE (G)

Jul 09 – Water statement (B), Bank statement (K), 3 bill DUPLICATE (G)

Aug 09 - Bank statement (K), 3 bill DUPLICATE (G)

Sep 09 – Joint bank statement (B), employment agreement w/ payslips (K), Bank statement (K), 3 bill DUPLICATE (G)

Oct 09 – Joint bank statement (B), Bank statement (K)

Nov 09 – Joint bank statement (B), money transfer confirmation (K), Overdraft letter (B), Amazon invoice (K), home insurance letter (G), Pension letter (G), Virgin bill (G)

Dec 09 – HSBC money transfer confirmation, Kristen’s Lloyds statement, Car insurance renewal notice to Graham

Jan 10 – Joint bank statement (B), New debit card notice (K), Letter from Virgin Mobile (K), Bank letter (K), Letter from Credit Expert (K), Car insurance letter (G), Credit Expert letter (G)

Feb 10 – New debit card notice (G), Electricity statement (B), Council letter from MP (G), BT letter (G), Joint bank statement (B)

Mar 10 – Tenancy Agreement contract (B), Water statement (B), British Gas welcome letter (B) , Eon welcome letter (B), Letter confirming online purchase (K), NHS letter (K), Bank letter (G), Royal Mail letter (B)

Apr 10 – British Gas (B), TV license (G), Eon (B)

May 10 – Eon (B), Bank statement (K), Car Registration Cert from DVLA (G)

Jun 10 - Bank statement (K)

Jul 10 – Water statement (B), Bank statement (K)

Aug 10

Sep 10

tahnyuh
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Post by tahnyuh » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:58 pm

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Last edited by tahnyuh on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:19 pm

GrahamD85, the example I quoted in my response above is in fact personal experience (applications under the economic route though, so only limited to use of "duplicate" bank statements).


regards

alikhan28
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Re: What does 'documents must be originals' mean exactly?

Post by alikhan28 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:07 pm

I might be looking into this too much, but on form FLR(M), when it says 'Documents must be originals. Photocopies are not acceptable' does it just mean photocopies are not allowed? The full stop in there seems to suggest more to me. Basically I want to take some bills to my application that have been reprinted, i.e. I've lost the original bills or don't have them and have asked my phone company to resend me the bills. The bills will probably have 'copy' or 'duplicate' written on them but the address will be as it should for that time period.

Is that OK? I might be worrying too much, but I'm wary the officers don't look at them the same as the original bill.
Yes you would be OK.You are worrying too much.

If you can request bills company to certify these bills if possible then perfect.

Ali
..................................................................................................
This is simply a general discussion not an immigration advice. I not necessarily correct on everything I would say. I am learning too

elv15
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Post by elv15 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:30 pm

Hey Graham do not worry, i used to throw away the original bills and had to call the water and electricity company to send all the bills they sent us in the previous 1 year, they did and we had about 5 bills from each company, the water said reprinted and electricity said copy, they where exackly the same as the originals because i did find just a few copys of the old original bill and they are exackly the same with the old dates etc. Now when i took them to my solicitor she said thats definatley fine because they where issued by the issuing company and they have the logo etc. In the event HO was suspicious about them (which i doubt very much) then they will call the company who issued them and offcourse the company will confirm.

So do not worry about that at all.
Please note that what i post is only a personal opinion. Im no expert lol.

alikhan28
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Post by alikhan28 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:32 pm

elv15 wrote:Hey Graham do not worry, i used to throw away the original bills and had to call the water and electricity company to send all the bills they sent us in the previous 1 year, they did and we had about 5 bills from each company, the water said reprinted and electricity said copy, they where exackly the same as the originals because i did find just a few copys of the old original bill and they are exackly the same with the old dates etc. Now when i took them to my solicitor she said thats definatley fine because they where issued by the issuing company and they have the logo etc. In the event HO was suspicious about them (which i doubt very much) then they will call the company who issued them and offcourse the company will confirm.

So do not worry about that at all.
Good explanation.

Ali
..................................................................................................
This is simply a general discussion not an immigration advice. I not necessarily correct on everything I would say. I am learning too

GrahamD85
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Post by GrahamD85 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:28 pm

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

In terms of not having my girlfriends name on the council tax - I thought that as she was a US citizen it would be the same as not being able to vote (i.e. not recognised as living at that address) and she would not be able to have her name put on there. God knows where my brains are at the moment. I'll give the council a call and see if they can put it on and send copies out.

If they can't does this pose a problem?

alikhan28
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Post by alikhan28 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:13 am

GrahamD85 wrote:Thanks guys, much appreciated.

In terms of not having my girlfriends name on the council tax - I thought that as she was a US citizen it would be the same as not being able to vote (i.e. not recognised as living at that address) and she would not be able to have her name put on there. God knows where my brains are at the moment. I'll give the council a call and see if they can put it on and send copies out. If they can't does this pose a problem?
You are wrong here.

If yours landlord is not paying council tax then you inform council about her stay and should start paying her council tax.

You can ring council and they would send you council tax form.

Ali
..................................................................................................
This is simply a general discussion not an immigration advice. I not necessarily correct on everything I would say. I am learning too

GrahamD85
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Post by GrahamD85 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:29 am

When she first moved in I called the council and told her she was living with me and she was a student. I gave them her name and even though it wouldn't be on the bills because she was a student, they knew of her and I received the 25% discount.

When she graduated I called the council again and told them I should no longer receive the single person discount. She has always been on the account but not named on the bill. One of the council bills I'm taking with me shows that my single person discount has been changed to the normal rate, so even though it doesn't have her name on it shows I was receiving that rate because I had a student living with me (her).

I called the council last week and they've sent me a statement dated from this month with her name added, so it's all sorted. Anyway, council tax bills are not a necessary or mandatory requirement, they're an example of what you could show. It's not necessary for everyone who lives at an address to have their name on the bill, just for them to be paying the correct rate as I always have :lol:

tahnyuh
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Post by tahnyuh » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:50 pm

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