Can EU1 application be approved if I don't work anymore ?

[sofinette]

Hi guys ! thanks a lot for your replies and support .

Now I 'm ready to write a letter but to who ? to the eutraity rights ? to the DOJ ? The GNIB ? or should I go to the Gnib to ask to talk with a supervisor or something like that ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

What exactly does it say in the letter you have received?

Why was the application rejected?

Where should you write for an appeal?

[sofinette]

Here are the reasons.


[quote="sofinette"]we received a refusal


Here are the reason : you did not submit the required documents : Evidence of residence including Current bank statement for both applicants and a letter of Registration from the PRTB.

I sent them the lease of the appartman and inform them that we have a lot of difficulities to contact our Landlord , and she told us once that she don't want to register us . Regarding bank statements, I sent them mine and they can see on it that the rent is paid ... i sent the statement of my husband few months ago ...

Now what I am going to do ?

They wrote / If you feel that the deciding officer has erred in fact and/or law then you may request a review of the above decision ..... All requests for a review of a decision must be made in writing within 15 days .

Ok within 15 days , but does anyone know how long it take to get a response from the review ? ( please don't say 6 months again !)

On another page they explained that we have 3 choices /
1. leave the state before the minister decides the matter
2. consent to the making of a deportation
3. Make representations to remain temporarily in the state
You are entitled to make written representations to the Minister for Justice , Equality and Law reform setting out reasons as to why you should be allowed to remain temporarily in the state . All such representations should be made on the attached Form N°3 ( but there is no form N°3 attached !) ... If representations are not made in the appropriate form then there is a danger that they will not be attached to the file and will not be considered ....

- if following consideration of the application, the Minister decides to refuse you temporary leave to remain you may be made subject to a deportation order. You may not be given the option of leaving voluntary or consenting to deportation.

Can anyone clarify please what mean "Make representations to remain temporarily in the state" ? do I have to write a letter or something like that ? my husband's visa has expired on the 19 February, but he is working which means he is working illegaly right now ? oh God!!

Could anyone advise pleasssseee ???[/quote

[Obie]

Hi guys ! thanks a lot for your replies and support .

Now I 'm ready to write a letter but to who ? to the eutraity rights ? to the DOJ ? The GNIB ? or should I go to the Gnib to ask to talk with a supervisor or something like that ?

You should right to the EU treaty right section of the DOJ directly, no point speaking to Garda, they cannot do much, the big boys or makes this crazy decisions are upstair in the shadow. One cannot see or talk to them, but you can be rest assured that you strongly worded registered letter will certainly arrive at there desk and it will be responded to.

Please state on the letter that the department is in violation of EU rule, that stipulates that residence card should be issued within 6 month, and the error the made in saying you are not exercising treaty rights in Ireland.

[sofinette]

The EU traity rights section is the section who gave the refusal decision , isn't it ? It doesn't make sense for me to complain to the people who gave themself this decision .

I was in the GNIB today . I explained them that my Landlord doesn't want to register us as tenant with PRTB what am I supposed to do ? They told me you should appeal for your case . Then I said , but without this letter of registration , I 'm going to get another refusal ? He answered yes ! .... pfff ...

I contacted the PRTB departman and the guy over there told me that they can pushed a bit the landlord but they cannot force them nad even if at the end the Landlord decide to register us , it take few weeks to get this letter and the request process. We only have 15 days . pfff ....

Any suggestions ?

[Ben]

PRTB registration is a matter between a landlord and the Private Residential Tenancies Board.

It has nothing at all to do with the tenant and has no effect whatsoever on (nor is it any way connected with) an EU national's right to reside in Ireland.

If I see one more example of the Department of Justice using the lack of a PTRB registration letter as an excuse to refuse EU1 applications I will intervene.

Jesus Christ - it's like saying "sorry, you don't brush your teeth - no right to reside".

What in God's name do they think they're playing at?

PRTB letter my arse.

[sofinette]

PRTB registration is a matter between a landlord and the Private Residential Tenancies Board.

It has nothing at all to do with the tenant and has no effect whatsoever on (nor is it any way connected with) an EU national's right to reside in Ireland.

If I see one more example of the Department of Justice using the lack of a PTRB registration letter as an excuse to refuse EU1 applications I will intervene.

Jesus Christ - it's like saying "sorry, you don't brush your teeth - no right to reside".

What in God's name do they think they're playing at?

PRTB letter my arse.

Hi Ben ,

I completely agree with what you say but it doesn't help me as I still don't know how to resolve that . I know that is wrong but I'm afraid to appeal without this PRTB letter, i'm afraid to have a refusal again . But unfortunately it's almost impossible for me to get that within 15 days , so I have no choice I'm going to write a letter explaining all you guys said about the unecessity regarding this PRTB as proof of residence , but to be honest I don't think it's going to help me a lot as they should know the law better than me .
I need to find solutions right now , even if I know that I'm right and I'm sure they know as well their reason of refusal is unjustified , but how can I force them to approve my application without this paper if they don't want to do it ? that is the real question , I really have to find the answer as soon as possible .

Once again thanks a lot for your help and supports ! it make me feel better when I see that for you as well the reason seems to be ... crazy.

[Obie]

6. (1) Subject to Regulation 20, a person to whom these Regulations apply may reside in the State for
up to 3 months on condition that he or she -
(a) (i) where the person is a Union citizen, holds a valid national identity card or passport,
(ii) where the person is not a Union citizen, holds a valid passport, and
(b) does not become an unreasonable burden on the social welfare system of the State.
(2) (a) Subject to Regulation 20, a Union citizen may reside in the State for a period longer than 3
months if he or she -
(i) is in employment or is self-employed in the State,
(ii) has sufficient resources to support himself or herself, his or her spouse and any
accompanying dependants, and has comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of
himself or herself, his or her spouse and any accompanying dependants,
(iii) is enrolled in an educational establishment in the State for the principal purpose of
following a course of study there, including a vocational training course, and has
comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of himself or herself, his or her
spouse and any accompanying dependants, or
(iv) subject to paragraph (3), is a family member accompanying or joining a Union citizen
who satisfies one or more of the conditions referred to in clause (i), (ii) or (iii).
(b) Subject to paragraph (3), a family member of a Union citizen who is not a national of a
Member State shall be entitled to reside in the State for more than 3 months where the
Minister is satisfied that the Union citizen concerned satisfies one or more of the conditions
referred to in subparagraph (a)(i), (ii) or (iii).

If you look at the citated information, extracted from the Irish regulations, i don't see any area that says the family member will be required to show evidence they are residence in the sate before a residnece card will be issued.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Can I recommend that no matter what else you do you also contact Solvit for their assistance. http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

I would also suggest you contact http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/migrants.php

[sofinette]

Can I recommend that no matter what else you do you also contact Solvit for their assistance. http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

I would also suggest you contact http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/migrants.php

I contacted Solvit , I leave them a message regarding my case.

The citizen info have been in contact with the immigrantcouncil for me .

Apparently they advise us to take a lawyer to write the appeal letter and to deal with this deportation letter . Don't know how much the lawyer is going to cost ... but I have no choice , I have an appointment for next week .

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

sofinette,

Any update?

[sofinette]

sofinette,

Any update?

Hi,

So many things happened since .

My lawyer wrote a letter , asking them to review their decision within 10 days. But they didn't . We couldn't do anything against them and we was so helpless ... We decided to leave in order to protect our mariage . But the thing is, I was always feeling bad because of what happened to us . I couldn't just say , ok forgot everything and don't even remember . Because the feeling of injustice never left me . I felt that they didn't say it clearly but this is what they wanted and it's frustrating because we are not criminals, neither me or my husband did anything in its whole life against the law ...

I received an email from solvit 2 months later . They was asking the last status of our case . I was so angry against them , 2 months later !!! Where have you been during all this time ?? I explained them that we lelft Ireland because we didn't know what to do , and they responded that if we wanted to go back there is still a chance for us , they said that they will defend our cases etc... It was like a renaissance to hear sthg like that . I said go for it . If we can take back what was our right , I 'll come back without any hesitation.

I received a mail from them asking for the list of documents we provided with our application , and they said that our case is going to be open soon and that they are determined to prioritize it .
In the same time , I received a very good job offer from Ireland. And I accepted it , and came back last week. I'm waiting for my contrat to be prepared , my starting date should be in september .

Now the big question is , should I wait to get a response from solvit or should I start all the staff from the beginning to have my husband with me ? But even if I start all the procedures , I mean spouse visa from the Irish embassy, inscription in the Garda, EU1 application ... I don't know if it's going to work cause , our first application is still in the appeal process . I wrote them 3 emails asking them to cancel my husband application as we left the country, but no response from them.

I tried to contact solvit since 2 days to have an advise but still I couldn't speak to anyone . If only I knew when my case is going to open , I would prefer to wait instead of starting everything from the beginning.

Here is my current situation.

All advised are welcomed !

Thanks.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

sofinette,

Where are you located right now? Have you gone back to Ireland? I hope so.

[rlow68]

sofinette,

Any update?

Hi,

So many things happened since .

My lawyer wrote a letter , asking them to review their decision within 10 days. But they didn't . We couldn't do anything against them and we was so helpless ... We decided to leave in order to protect our mariage . But the thing is, I was always feeling bad because of what happened to us . I couldn't just say , ok forgot everything and don't even remember . Because the feeling of injustice never left me . I felt that they didn't say it clearly but this is what they wanted and it's frustrating because we are not criminals, neither me or my husband did anything in its whole life against the law ...

I received an email from solvit 2 months later . They was asking the last status of our case . I was so angry against them , 2 months later !!! Where have you been during all this time ?? I explained them that we lelft Ireland because we didn't know what to do , and they responded that if we wanted to go back there is still a chance for us , they said that they will defend our cases etc... It was like a renaissance to hear sthg like that . I said go for it . If we can take back what was our right , I 'll come back without any hesitation.

I received a mail from them asking for the list of documents we provided with our application , and they said that our case is going to be open soon and that they are determined to prioritize it .
In the same time , I received a very good job offer from Ireland. And I accepted it , and came back last week. I'm waiting for my contrat to be prepared , my starting date should be in september .

Now the big question is , should I wait to get a response from solvit or should I start all the staff from the beginning to have my husband with me ? But even if I start all the procedures , I mean spouse visa from the Irish embassy, inscription in the Garda, EU1 application ... I don't know if it's going to work cause , our first application is still in the appeal process . I wrote them 3 emails asking them to cancel my husband application as we left the country, but no response from them.

I tried to contact solvit since 2 days to have an advise but still I couldn't speak to anyone . If only I knew when my case is going to open , I would prefer to wait instead of starting everything from the beginning.

Here is my current situation.

All advised are welcomed !

Thanks.

I will advise you start a new one with your lawyer, this same scenario happens to my friend, and the case was taken to court by the solicitor because they fail to review this case, before the court date, the INIS wrote the lawyer asking him to reapply on behalf of my friend, and he was given 6 months Stamp 4 b/4 a month, as INIS do not want to go to court., so I believe the same will apply to you, so let your lawyer reapply. This is about a week ago. It was handled by Brophy Solicitors

[daddy]

I read through this post and the advices given to soffienett and I found some information unclear.

Would an Eu citizen who is exercising his or her treaty right as a student in reupublic of Ireland be also considered as selfsufficient if for some reasons ( pregnancy complications) he or she is unable to to attend school anymore but have comprehensive health insurance cover for him or her and for his or her family members ,and have money to live on and not claim any benefit.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

daddy,

You are going to have to more clearly lay out your question. I do not think I understand.

[daddy]

i am non eu, spouse of eu citizen(british). i am living in ireland with my wife, my wife is a student here in ireland, we have comprihensive sickness insurance cover for me, my wife and my step daughter, and do not claim any benefit, we have money to take care of ourselves. My wife is presently pregnant and have some problems such that she always visit the hospital and feel not strong enough to attend school these days.
i have a temporary 6 months stamp 4 and waiting for my residence card.

my question is this, if my wife's condition continues like this, would the DOJ consider her as selfsufficient and grant my residence card or refuse to grant my residence card due to poor attendance at school.

that is what i would like to know.
Any idea would help,
Thanks

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Daddy,

Pregnancy can be tough on both of you. Best wishes through the next few months!

Did you apply as spouse of a "self sufficient" or "student"? When did you apply? Have you heard from DOJ yet?

[daddy]

Directives, thanks for the concern you showed.

my six months temporary stamp 4 will expire in feb. 2011.
I applied as spouse of eu citizen exercising her right as a student.

What advice would you give us in this case?.

Thanks.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am not sure precisely about this situation. Certainly being pregnant is not a problem in itself (except when it makes you sick!).

Will she be a student up until the 4EUFam card is issued? Are you working presently?

It sounds like you are self sufficient and have medical insurance. So even if she were not a student, you could probably get the Residence Card on that basis.

I would make sure you communicate with DOJ only by registered mail. Be sure to keep copies of everything you send them.

I would definitely contact the EU's free legal advice service. http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/ for their opinion

[walrusgumble]

I read through this post and the advices given to soffienett and I found some information unclear.

Would an Eu citizen who is exercising his or her treaty right as a student in reupublic of Ireland be also considered as selfsufficient if for some reasons ( pregnancy complications) he or she is unable to to attend school anymore but have comprehensive health insurance cover for him or her and for his or her family members ,and have money to live on and not claim any benefit.

reading bits of the thread, a few things i noted

1. It is not for the department to establish whether an applicant is exercising their rights, as one poster suggested. It is for the applicant to do so. THis is done by producing the relevant documents

2. The lawyer probably could do nothing then, because it would fail in court, because the applicant might not have produced all the documents to show they are exercising rights, whether they are a worker = self employed or a student or a self sufficient person of means

3. As suggested in point two, there are three ways in showing exercise of eu rights. In addition an eu citizen has a treaty right to reside. As you know the treaty is primary source, one which the courts do and should take extremely seriously


It is submitted, that provided that an EU citizen resides here, even if not working or studying, but clearly has evidence of self sufficiency and all the relevant health insurances etc, for them and their family, can't stop them. To suggest otherwise is retarded, what about all those eldery / retired people who fly off to live their last few years in eg Spain or Cyprus or anyother nice place?

Here, its not like they are dealing with international students were attendance is mandatory, and even they may be excused when pregnancy is occurring.

Sadly, it is something the applicant should have helpfully pointed out to the department. why they refused to reconsider was unlawful. they should have been advised to simply make a new application with more documents etc.

[fatty patty]

Dude you are worrying too much about this treaty thingy. You should stress about getting nappies/cots/wife's tantrums and all the other pregnancy related stuff.

1. your wife is not an international student visa holder where she has to keep an eye on her attendance (above 80%), she is a British national attendance is not an issue for her.

2. yous have comprehensive sickness cover and are not in receipt of SW that in itself is self sufficiency.

Make sure to let the INIS know about all the above, if you need to, consult a solicitor to draft you up a letter to send with your documents, he/she will charge you a few quids.

[Obie]

I advised the OP before that the fact that his wife is not attending college due to pregnancy related illness will have no effect on his rights as spouse of EU citizen.

EU national derive their right to reside in another member state directly from Article 18 EC now Article 21 (TFEU). These right are subjected to the condition stipulated in the treaty and the provisions adopted to give it effect.

One of the conditions is that the Union Citizen is Self-Sufficient , that is, he or she holds a Sickness insurance and enough fund to satisfy the authorities that she will not become a burden on the state.

I strongly believe the your wife meet all these criteria, and hence she is covered, this have the effect of conferring entitlement to you also.

I join fatty in advising you to focus on the baby and the health of your wife and family, as pregnancy can be quite exhausting and stressful, even without complication.

I wish you and the madam well, and hope you enjoy your stay in the Irish State.