9jeirean wrote:@Walrusgumble:
The point here which you still don't get is that actions speak louder than voice as they say. The DoJ's continuous prolongation of citizenship application process will continue to cast a shadow of cynicism over the intent of the government in this regard. The inherent culture of lack of openness, almost knee jack defensiveness on the operations of the citizenship unit hasn't helped either.
The heading is misleading. It implies that the laws are respective to immigrants. It's not. It's quite lenient. The problem is the amount of applications to be considered in one day
The legislation is clear, there was plenty of public notice of the delays involved in these cases, there was public court hearings, how can you complain? People have notice of the problems, had or should of had notice of the problems of of 2007. Yet they still made the applications. Poeple's residency is not neccessarily at risk here
.......Yet these countries have in place systems that process naturalization more effectively than Ahern and his legion at the DoJ.
Please provide up to date stats to confirm how long the waiting list is in Britain, Germany, Spain, France, search for the countries sources as oppose to EU (hardly independent by the way)
..and you would know for sure that every long standing application is held back by delay in applicants sending documents upon request won't you `'minster'? (Gosh this dude is funny) .... and of course this only happens in Ireland as it is unheard of in other EU countries huh? Must have been a grand conspiracy to frustrate the DoJ by the applicants. You'r auditioning for farther Ted or something?
I am looking forward to rooting up the cases law here, which sets out the states evidence before the court to shut you up. In the meantime, i think there are some stats and facts from the department. You actually realise, that some people are refused because they sent to application in before the 60 months, or they did not have 1 year continous residency, or their declarations were not properly attested, failure to provide adequate documents, failure to provide marraige / birth cers / affidavits . you realise that their non compliance (which is only detected when its looked at, about 6-8 months later) means that they have taken up valuable space in the waiting list!!!!!!!!!! for people smart enough to have done everything correctly.
TIP 1 Read the bloody document list at the back of the page TIP 2, you should not jump to conclusions where you have no basis or sources.
I could have sworn you wrote this in a previous paragraph on this post: "Other EU countries do not want to know ye if they are not going to integrate and really become one of them. Here, they don't give a sh*te, just reside and pay your taxes. take your passport. Nothing hugely wrong with that by the way". Do you even know what contradiction means, if it hits you in the face dude? So what's the official position from the two contradicting standpoint 'minister'? lol....SMH.
No contradiction at all, but what would you expect from people who jump to conclusions.
First, this state is not too pushed about whether you learn Irish etc (fair play) So long as you are residenct, hard working, law abiding etc, you will be eligible. In other countries the demands are so much that in effect it really is only available to distant relations. You swear before the courts that you will promise in good faith to remain a resident in Ireland and not talk to off at a drop of a minute to use this gift in europe, only to return when your old looking for a pension. On another thread, we have seen arrogance from another poster saying that the oath means nothing. Well, I say, don't bother looking for status, then he came out with shite that was way over his head.
Now, if you do decide to leave, for however, long, you are expected, as an Irish citizen to behave yourself. the last thing we want is for irish citizens, particularily of the naturalised kind getting into trouble and where it is our embassy members coming to help you clean up what ever mess your in. bad example but look at the extremist, an irish citizen caught with drugs in Thailand. We have enough of our own making idiots of this country abroad, and yes, many are in the dail.
Not sure this applies to any part of my post. Except if you are responding to something in your own mind dude. Calm down go back and read my post again and tell me what 'dearly beloved card' is implicitly or explicitly implied. This kind of knee jack response, to put it in your own words ........."makes you look inable (sic) to actually take in information and look quite retarded.......Emotions get you no where!!!!! its time for calm heads". Noff said. SMH.
That is more addressed to others in general. with the multi quoting it seemed convenient to addressed it there at the time. But words deeming emotional hostage are nonsensical. Again, people were on or should have been on notice before making applications
Do you deny that the requirements to obtain an Irish passport, living aside the lengthy and unfair waiting time, is more onerous?
It has been put to you by many contributors here many time that the government is within it's power to introduce assessment methods that it deems necessary to ascertain applicants' knowledge of the country's history, language proficiency etc. That my friend is no biggie. As a matter of fact Fatty Patty would even throw in some nice Irish dancing steps for good measure. Who knows we may even get some immigrants to represent Athlone in the All Ireland finals in a few years time lol. What is not on however is this carry on of presenting the status quo as a favour to applicants while the DoJ continues to hold on to their application unnecessarily.
Your missing the point, ie the source of why there are delays and the possibility that there are genuine heavy loads.
As for Athlone, ha ha ha , maybe the roscommon side.
Do you realise how many Irish passport are applied for (and this are from people who are by law already automatically entitled to them - America is a good example)
What are you on about?! We are talking about naturalization appplication here which is dealt with by the DoJ. Application for passport for those who are automatically entitled to them is processed by the passport office which is under the department of foreign affairs dude!
Right, and personell are not transferred between each department whenever required?
Classic mass management mentality. At least now we are beginning to get to the the attitude that is fueling this Show me evidence that every one who is on DoJ's long standing waiting list is 'dole querers' (sic)? On the evidence of this thread ==> http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=25809 <== alone we've had case of highly skilled workers even business owners tens of employee been made to wait unnecessarily. The government has got to loose this siege mentality. I could have sworn there is a life register in the state. If the government want to identified the applicants who are on the dole, it can be done within minutes dude. Making everyone wait for years is hardly an ingenious way to go about it don't you think.
Firstly, if you have not noticed already, this is not a socialist country. Secondly I am not referring to people on the dole who, until now, had previously had good employment records (ie stamp 4 and 1)
I am referring to a certian group of professional child bearers who have never done a days work in Ireland bar on their backs(to be clear, thankfully its not all of the ibc's) Why should they be rewarded (they won't) over the people that you are referring to who some, not all, have rent allowance, single mother (even though the father is not far behind or contactable in the home country) etc. The rule here is fair, it simply requires 3 years self sufficiency . your wasting your time referring to the irish slackers, they can't be deported or stripped of citizenship, so at least compare like with like.
To explain, most non eu related citizens or parents of irish citizen children are here for one main purpose. To work (or to raise irish child until 18 / 21 years). Failure to do so, unless they to remain economically viable means (study) or if they have become disabled due to work or are people of self sufficency , means that their immigration conditions are near being breached.a work permit holder is expected to either get another job or leave. a work permit holder was brought in when the demand was needed. This is not the case now, now where in that permit did it say you will get citizenship. If you can't get work you naturally move on to fresher plains (Department's attitude no mine)
Now, of course their must not be applied to every case, fine, many have for most or near all that period should not be put into such an unfair position. They should be allowed some leeway, at least allowed to keep their residency card. but citizenship? no, not unless they are 3 years self sufficient (or in the interest of fairness close enough, have each case depend on its own case) BEFORE making the actual application
The departments position, is this, they don't want more irish citizens on the dole, never mind other nationalities (bar eu). They would be very relieved if many Irish left, like they did years ago. (as you will all note, that is the main reason why any sign of recovery is due to many leaving)
The department has a duty to its citizens to ensure that all will actually be able to enjoy their human rights when they are older, to be entitled to a pension, health services (as bad as it is) it needs to ensure that there are plans set up. thats why, like any country , we have a census. As far as the minister's concerned, where a candidate for citizens has lost his / her job and not expected to obtain another one in any time in the future, the minister is reluctant to grant citizenship. That is one key reason for the delays and constant requirement for payslips and the like, as oppose to the passport to ensure one has resdiency.
Its a horrible example, but have you ever played town planning etc games on the computer such as sim city. (look if you have you will get the idea, but sorry for being crass) If there are no job prospects, you would be expected to leave and return to your own country who will look after you, or to the eu spouse's state (then we shall see how well you are treated) - I don't think any one can deny the rational is very much a consideration of the minister, could you?
At least if they are allowed to keep their residency or in case of stamp 1 moved over to stamp 4, at least they will retain the opportunity to access employment the same as an Irish or eu. why should a state barge in only to find that there records are brutal
paying taxes, as in income taxes? I do you include the minium wage or low paid workers there?
Do not be so condescending my friend. Everyone who work and contribute their quota according to the existing legal tax obligation is entitled to the same level of respect and fair treatment from the government and people of this country.
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....kildare all the way! 
! 186 staff Gademit! To think our resident DoJ spokesman Walrusgumble would have us believe that uncle Dermot is on top of thing at the DoJ, to the extent that he could even ask Micheál Martin down at the Dept of Foreign Affairs for a few extra lads to be moved down to Tipperary at the snap of a finger?