Schenghen visa to Belgium

[chibage]

Hi, I would like to visit Belgium with my British husband. I have ILR and a zimbabwean passport. I know I need our marriage certificate, his passport and my passport to apply . Question is , do I need to book the eurostar and have confirmation of this or do I need to show hotel reservations??? Thanks.

[tusken]

the process of applying for a schengen visa is much simplified if you are the spouse of an EU national. you only need to reply to a limited number of questions on the form and you do not need to show proof of booking, accommodation, insurance, funds etc

the visa is also free

you can apply for either a single trip or a multi trip visa - so i recommend a multi trip one. if its your first one, you should still be able to get one that has a duration of 6 months (and you can be in schengen countries for a max of 90 days in that time). this way you may be able to use it for another later trip to europe as well.

in theory a schengen visa can be issued for up to 5 years but this never seems to happen. My wife is chinese and she is now trying to get a 1 or 2 year one as she also has ILR

[chibage]

Thanks !!!!

[Plum70]

in theory a schengen visa can be issued for up to 5 years but this never seems to happen.

It does happen. I (non-EU spouse of a Swiss national) applied to the French embassy just the 2nd time round and was issued with a 3-year schengen visa.

Your wife may get the same. Just be sure to request the number of years you want on the form.

[ca.funke]

...3-year schengen visa...

WOW! My wife applied for many Schengen-Visas, and they were never issued for longer than our actually planned trip. (Sometimes 2 or 3 days only!)

This factor got so annoying, that it really contributed to our move from Ireland to Switzerland.

Had we gotten a 3-year-multi-Schengen around roughly our 10th Schengen-Visa-application, who knows, we might still live in Dublin...

...regards from Switzerland

[Plum70]

I did not tell all of the story:

The French had initially refused me a free visa because my hubby is Swiss (?) and compounded matters by affixing an asian man's visa vignette in my passport... Of course, I did not receive this well so I guess they felt 'obliged' to placate me for a while after having me pay for another person's visa! I promised that they would hear from me though, and they sure did! A few months later they refunded the fee with profuse apologies after they received a copy of their transposed version of the EU Directive...

How is CH treating you and your spouse? Well worth the move I guess. We should be there this winter exploring Lucerne and Neuchatel...

[ca.funke]

How is CH treating you and your spouse? Well worth the move I guess. We should be there this winter exploring Lucerne and Neuchatel...

Before moving here I thought the Swiss are strange people sitting in the mountains. (Not exactly like that, but similar.)

Now that we live here, we don´t want to change for anything! The direct democracy is really interesting, and the people cannot be fooled. Since the individual´s take is really worth something (in all the referendums) I feel the people are less peevish about politics.

But this is totally off-topic now.

Rgds, Christian

[Plum70]

Glad things worked out for you both... now your wife has the opportunity to travel for many years unhindered around Schengenland with her Swiss residence permit!

[chibage]

HI all, just to let you know I applied for the schengen visa at Belgium vfs . I took my hubbys british passport, my passport and my marriage certificate. When the lady at the counter looked at my documents she asked me for my travel bookings and hotel reservations. I told her that I did not need this as I am a spouse of a british national. She then said ok and accepted my documents and asked me to pay £24 for their fee. I paid the money and she said I would hear from them in at least 3 days. Yesterday I received an email from them saying they would like my copy of my travel arrangements and hotel reservations. This is the statement form the email they have send me.


Dear Sir/Madam

Please note that the Belgium Embassy requires your return tickets to Belgium non-flexible and paid hotel bookings .


The documents need to be either sent by email to documentbelgium.uk@vfshelpline.com, fax them 0207 287 5818 with your reference number at the top or drop off at the application centre, any working day between 2pm and 3pm.

Once we receive the remaining documents, it will take at least 3 working days to complete the application process.

Any additional document required for your application should be sent in a PDF or Word format as an attachment.
All additional documents must be sent together at the same time.



so question is, do they have a right to ask for this information??? I just need the visa to be sorted so I dont really have the energy to start arguing with them. I have emailed them the required info. What are your views of this??? Thanks

[ca.funke]

...and asked me to pay £24 for their fee. I paid the money...

You should not have paid. Visas for family-members must be free of charge. Since she charged you, they might also have put you in another category, which would indeed prompt for the mentioned papers...

...Please note that the Belgium Embassy...

Just a sidenote, acknowledging that this is cited from the Embassy, and not from you, dear chibage: It should be "Belgian Embassy". I´m not saying that because my English is so great, but because I´m Belgian, and "Belgium Embassy" just hurts in the ears... and such crap from the Embassy itself? Ouch.

so question is, do they have a right to ask for this information???

No, they do not have the right to ask for this. The grounds for not being allowed to ask are in 2004/38/EC:

Article 5
Right of entry
1. (...)
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with
Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with
national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain
the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

This is interpreted, at least by the European Commission, as obliging you to only prove that you fall under this law. As such they have to give you the visa based on:

• Both passports AND
• your marriage-certificate

Last but not least, you may even travel without a visa. Reason and grounds can be read >>here<<.

I hope you will enjoy your trip to my country. That is - everything after passport-control. Before it won´t be pleasant...

[applicant09]

hi all !

I 'll put some info about Belgium visa... it was hard time for me to get it and too many questions was asked. more proof or support documents for visa.

any way after 2 weeks they issued me visa but with single & 5 days entry.

visa is valid from 10 of October till 12 of February 2011.

been to brussels and i liked it alot..

enjoy your trip to belgium

[Plum70]

I 'll put some info about Belgium visa

'Belgian Visa'.

Brussels is a lovely city - good cuisine, beer and diverse cultures (which do not necessarily mix!). Did you try the fries at Fritland (near La Bourse)? They are unbelievable! We had the 'Mitraillette' - not for the faint-hearted let me tell you. Still it's something to try at least once... Had to walk a couple of kilometers to get rid of it!

You should try Bruges next time - picturesque, laden with history and fabulous array of beers too.

[chibage]

Hi, I absolutely LOVED Brussles!!! Would move there if I spoke french LOL. Didnt get to try the fries , but will definetly be going back soon and will be sure to try the mitraillette!!
I found myself scoffing on waffles and drinking cherry beer!! The food is definetly amazing. Couldnt get enough of the paella!!

[MELVIN WELLS]

SST sold its releases to small distributors at a deliberately low price; however, since the distributors typically sold import records, the records usually ended up in specialty shops where they would sell for high prices. Ginn decided to release the first Black Flag album Damaged via a mainstream distributor.

[MelC]

...and asked me to pay £24 for their fee. I paid the money...

You should not have paid. Visas for family-members must be free of charge. Since she charged you, they might also have put you in another category, which would indeed prompt for the mentioned papers...

...Please note that the Belgium Embassy...

Just a sidenote, acknowledging that this is cited from the Embassy, and not from you, dear chibage: It should be "Belgian Embassy". I´m not saying that because my English is so great, but because I´m Belgian, and "Belgium Embassy" just hurts in the ears... and such crap from the Embassy itself? Ouch.

so question is, do they have a right to ask for this information???

No, they do not have the right to ask for this. The grounds for not being allowed to ask are in 2004/38/EC:

Article 5
Right of entry
1. (...)
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with
Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with
national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain
the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

This is interpreted, at least by the European Commission, as obliging you to only prove that you fall under this law. As such they have to give you the visa based on:

• Both passports AND
• your marriage-certificate

Last but not least, you may even travel without a visa. Reason and grounds can be read >>here<<.

I hope you will enjoy your trip to my country. That is - everything after passport-control. Before it won´t be pleasant...

ILR is NOT a residience card of a EU family member, this was discussed last week in another thread.

the debateable point seems to be ~ when a person has entered a country under "domestic" immigration rules, (ie: the UK and has ILR) then going on holiday/visiting to a "schengen" country, where you are NOT invoking the directve, means you fall under "standard" Schengen rules.
and because you are in the UK under domestic immigration rules NOT EU rules you again have not invoked the directive.
No-one seems lear on it, everyone falls on one side of the fence or the other.

[acme4242]

ILR is NOT a residience card of a EU family member, this was discussed last week in another thread.

the debateable point seems to be ~ when a person has entered a country under "domestic" immigration rules, (ie: the UK and has ILR) then going on holiday/visiting to a "schengen" country, where you are NOT invoking the directve, means you fall under "standard" Schengen rules.
and because you are in the UK under domestic immigration rules NOT EU rules you again have not invoked the directive.
No-one seems lear on it, everyone falls on one side of the fence or the other.

yes, UK National ILR is NOT a resident card issued under Article 10 of 2004/38/EC,

But, when the family are going on holiday or visiting another EU state, this
trip is covered under 2004/38/EC
So any required Schengen visas are free, accelerated application
procedure, and every facility must be afforded.

But, if the non-EU family members is travelling alone on holiday or
visiting another EU state , (NOT invoking the directve) then yes,
"standard" Schengen rules apply.
No privileges.

Certain EU states e.g. Romania are not so fussy about the travelling
alone bit, And grant equal privileges to the non-EU family member
regardless if they are accompanied or joining the EU citizen or not.
Whereas other EU states, e.g. Germany are very mean on this restriction.

[chibage]

Just to say, when I queried why I was being charged for the visa the lady at VFS checking my paper work told me that the visa was indeed free. She claimed that the money I paid was the administration fee that vfs charge to handle the application. She said if it was the embassy processing the application directly, then they definetly would not have charged me.

[MelC]

ILR is NOT a residience card of a EU family member, this was discussed last week in another thread.

the debateable point seems to be ~ when a person has entered a country under "domestic" immigration rules, (ie: the UK and has ILR) then going on holiday/visiting to a "schengen" country, where you are NOT invoking the directve, means you fall under "standard" Schengen rules.
and because you are in the UK under domestic immigration rules NOT EU rules you again have not invoked the directive.
No-one seems lear on it, everyone falls on one side of the fence or the other.

yes, UK National ILR is NOT a resident card issued under Article 10 of 2004/38/EC,

But, when the family are going on holiday or visiting another EU state, this
trip is covered under 2004/38/EC
So any required Schengen visas are free, accelerated application
procedure, and every facility must be afforded.

But, if the non-EU family members is travelling alone on holiday or
visiting another EU state , (NOT invoking the directve) then yes,
"standard" Schengen rules apply.
No privileges.

Certain EU states e.g. Romania are not so fussy about the travelling
alone bit, And grant equal privileges to the non-EU family member
regardless if they are accompanied or joining the EU citizen or not.
Whereas other EU states, e.g. Germany are very mean on this restriction.

As far as I can see, the directive can be taken very literally and liberally, the ECJ certainly do, BUT how each EU state determine who is under the directive and who isn't varies ~ there is no uniformity or conformity anywhere.

an aside ~ have you had a reply from "timatic"? Im still stranded in North Africa unable to book a ferry as they insist on "schengen visa conditions!!

which highlights again that within the EU and outside the EU is much more of a nightmare that you can imagine!!

[acme4242]

Just to say, when I queried why I was being charged for the visa the lady at VFS checking my paper work told me that the visa was indeed free. She claimed that the money I paid was the administration fee that vfs charge to handle the application. She said if it was the embassy processing the application directly, then they definetly would not have charged me.

A service fee charged by an external provider is still payable,
but according to the Visa code 2010. The Consulates are suppose
to provide a direct application process.
But I guess this is not the case.

Article 17
Service fee
1. An additional service fee may be charged by an external
service provider referred to in Article 43. The service fee shall
be proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service
provider while performing one or more of the tasks referred to
in Article 43(6).

2. The service fee shall be specified in the legal instrument
referred to in Article 43(2).

3. Within the framework of local Schengen cooperation,
Member States shall ensure that the service fee charged to an
applicant duly reflects the services offered by the external
service provider and is adapted to local circumstances.
Furthermore, they shall aim to harmonise the service fee
applied.

4. The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the
visa fee set out in Article 16(1), irrespective of the possible
reductions in or exemptions from the visa fee as provided for
in Article 16(2), (4), (5) and (6).

5. The Member State(s) concerned shall maintain the possi­
bility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at
its/their consulates.

[acme4242]

As far as I can see, the directive can be taken very literally and liberally, the ECJ certainly do, BUT how each EU state determine who is under the directive and who isn't varies ~ there is no uniformity or conformity anywhere.

an aside ~ have you had a reply from "timatic"? Im still stranded in North Africa unable to book a ferry as they insist on "schengen visa conditions!!

which highlights again that within the EU and outside the EU is much more of a nightmare that you can imagine!!

No, no answer from timatic-IATA, these guys might just about
reply to court summons,
I can imagine they bin customer requests.

EDIT: I take it back... they did reply

Many thanks for your mail.

We are currently investigating this matter, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland.

Kind regards,

Database Publisher
IATA Netherlands Data Publications

[MelC]

ILR is NOT a residience card of a EU family member, this was discussed last week in another thread.

the debateable point seems to be ~ when a person has entered a country under "domestic" immigration rules, (ie: the UK and has ILR) then going on holiday/visiting to a "schengen" country, where you are NOT invoking the directve, means you fall under "standard" Schengen rules.
and because you are in the UK under domestic immigration rules NOT EU rules you again have not invoked the directive.
No-one seems lear on it, everyone falls on one side of the fence or the other.

yes, UK National ILR is NOT a resident card issued under Article 10 of 2004/38/EC,

But, when the family are going on holiday or visiting another EU state, this
trip is covered under 2004/38/EC
So any required Schengen visas are free, accelerated application
procedure, and every facility must be afforded.

But, if the non-EU family members is travelling alone on holiday or
visiting another EU state , (NOT invoking the directve) then yes,
"standard" Schengen rules apply.
No privileges.

Certain EU states e.g. Romania are not so fussy about the travelling
alone bit, And grant equal privileges to the non-EU family member
regardless if they are accompanied or joining the EU citizen or not.
Whereas other EU states, e.g. Germany are very mean on this restriction.

I think there is so much that is not clear, I see your point exactly, as an EU citizen has the right to remain in any other state for up to 3 months ~ then their no EU spouse also has that right, I don't think the directive was intended to cover holidays etc, and the financial losses on the Schengen Visas is something that someone has to bear and no state is going to be happy about that ~ and i still think that where the driretive derived from, and that it is based on economic movement I think that at some point it will have to be overhauled, and those under domestic immigration initially, might not be covered, then i am sure there will be the issue of discrimination ~ the EU needs to get to grips with this and quickly!!!

[MelC]

hey Acme4242

I have just got a reply to the email i sent timatic a few minutes ago,

we have now dispensed with formailites like dear "MRS XXX" and we are at "dear Mel"

we have opened dialogue ~ this can only be good?

NOW i am impressed! They ARE as confused as everyone else about the ILR over Residence Card issue, and THAT is what they are seeking clarity from Brussels about ~ and are going to keep me informed ~

oh hes already got the directive/guide/SBGH and new visa code lol
and still has no definitive answer ~ but THEY are trying to get brussels to made a defined response as to who is and who is not supposed to have free schengen visa's and who is and who is not supposed to have return details etc, hes commented on the lack of consistencey between states making this very complex, (which it is) and of course airlines don't want penalties ~ so err on the side of caution and no other information available to them! THIS lands back squarely in the lap of the EU commision ~ they need to get to grips with it TODAY WOULD BE GOOD HUH?