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Interesting proposition but if i must say it appears overtly optimistic IMHO and looks like oversimplification of a complex situation. I'll be right back to expantiate. Duty beckons for now.an_dochasach wrote:The IBC05 scheme granted permission to remain to parents of Irish citizens who were born shortly before the citizenship referendum removed the "Jus soli" birthright of citizenship enjoyed by millions of Irish emigrants in the U.S., Canada and elsewhere. The approximately 18,000 people on this scheme are now in a limbo where they cannot apply for long term residency as they would have been able to avail of if they'd remained 5 years in Ireland on any other visa or work permit. Naturalization takes at least two years and is not at all assured. Ireland only naturalizes 6 people for every 1000 immigrants, the second slowest and least efficient in the E.U.
Every 2-3 years the GNIB must ramp up staff and process IBC renewals. It is an inefficient process because of frequent changes in immigration policy and the government never plans for these renewals. In my estimation, it cost the GNIB well over €100,000 to process these and it costs the state at least 50,000 hours in lost productivity during the 3-8 hours of time it takes for IBC parents to wait in the immigration queue.
One proposal would be to eliminate this problem by deporting these 18,000 immigrants. But this would be a very expensive solution. The court cost of even one deportation is significant and the cost of actual deportation is huge. This would also almost certainly result in an economic backlash from the countries where these people are from.
My proposed reform is to create a fast track to naturalization for IBC parents. They have already demonstrated that they can support themselves and their children and that they are not criminals. (These conditions were specified in original IBC plan) There are some significant upsides:
- The fees for naturalization are nearly €1000 which could immediately add nearly €20 million to the Irish gov budget.
- Expensive vetting has already taken place
- Eliminate the cost of the bureaucracy necessary to keep track of these immigrants.
- These 18,000 people would be free to leave Ireland and work elsewhere in the E.U., reducing pressure on domestic labor force.
The IBC scheme is a fairly generous scheme IMHO. Correct me if I am wrong here, I think the basic condition for renewal is either a proof of employment or a proof that the applicants are engaged in some sort of study toward developing employable skills. That IMHO is a reasable request.an_dochasach wrote:The IBC05 scheme granted permission to remain to parents of Irish citizens who were born shortly before the citizenship referendum removed the "Jus soli" birthright of citizenship enjoyed by millions of Irish emigrants in the U.S., Canada and elsewhere. The approximately 18,000 people on this scheme are now in a limbo where they cannot apply for long term residency as they would have been able to avail of if they'd remained 5 years in Ireland on any other visa or work permit. Naturalization takes at least two years and is not at all assured. Ireland only naturalizes 6 people for every 1000 immigrants, the second slowest and least efficient in the E.U.
Every 2-3 years the GNIB must ramp up staff and process IBC renewals. It is an inefficient process because of frequent changes in immigration policy and the government never plans for these renewals. In my estimation, it cost the GNIB well over €100,000 to process these and it costs the state at least 50,000 hours in lost productivity during the 3-8 hours of time it takes for IBC parents to wait in the immigration queue.
One proposal would be to eliminate this problem by deporting these 18,000 immigrants. But this would be a very expensive solution. The court cost of even one deportation is significant and the cost of actual deportation is huge. This would also almost certainly result in an economic backlash from the countries where these people are from.
My proposed reform is to create a fast track to naturalization for IBC parents. They have already demonstrated that they can support themselves and their children and that they are not criminals. (These conditions were specified in original IBC plan) There are some significant upsides:
- The fees for naturalization are nearly €1000 which could immediately add nearly €20 million to the Irish gov budget.
- Expensive vetting has already taken place
- Eliminate the cost of the bureaucracy necessary to keep track of these immigrants.
- These 18,000 people would be free to leave Ireland and work elsewhere in the E.U., reducing pressure on domestic labor force.
As far as the Minister is concern, and the law, see Loebe, the sole purpose of the parent's presence in Ireland is to raise the Irish Citizen Child so the status is not comparable in any way to work permit holders. A parent under the IBC already has a stamp 4 and has all the rights and access it possibly could need.an_dochasach wrote:The IBC05 scheme granted permission to remain to parents of Irish citizens who were born shortly before the citizenship referendum removed the "Jus soli" birthright of citizenship enjoyed by millions of Irish emigrants in the U.S., Canada and elsewhere. The approximately 18,000 people on this scheme are now in a limbo where they cannot apply for long term residency as they would have been able to avail of if they'd remained 5 years in Ireland on any other visa or work permit. Naturalization takes at least two years and is not at all assured. Ireland only naturalizes 6 people for every 1000 immigrants, the second slowest and least efficient in the E.U.
Every 2-3 years the GNIB must ramp up staff and process IBC renewals. It is an inefficient process because of frequent changes in immigration policy and the government never plans for these renewals. In my estimation, it cost the GNIB well over €100,000 to process these and it costs the state at least 50,000 hours in lost productivity during the 3-8 hours of time it takes for IBC parents to wait in the immigration queue.
One proposal would be to eliminate this problem by deporting these 18,000 immigrants. But this would be a very expensive solution. The court cost of even one deportation is significant and the cost of actual deportation is huge. This would also almost certainly result in an economic backlash from the countries where these people are from.
My proposed reform is to create a fast track to naturalization for IBC parents. They have already demonstrated that they can support themselves and their children and that they are not criminals. (These conditions were specified in original IBC plan) There are some significant upsides:
- The fees for naturalization are nearly €1000 which could immediately add nearly €20 million to the Irish gov budget.
- Expensive vetting has already taken place
- Eliminate the cost of the bureaucracy necessary to keep track of these immigrants.
- These 18,000 people would be free to leave Ireland and work elsewhere in the E.U., reducing pressure on domestic labor force.
When I read that I was shocked. How was he not stripped of his Mayor status? If that's not lying and corruption, I don't know what is!walrusgumble wrote:Two cases to point out, one above and on publicised case in RTE of a particular former mayor in a particular town in the midlands went home to nigeria to a hero's welcome. Yet, come did he come here?
Why would he be stripped of mayorish? did you actually stop to think about that.Monifé wrote:When I read that I was shocked. How was he not stripped of his Mayor status? If that's not lying and corruption, I don't know what is!walrusgumble wrote:Two cases to point out, one above and on publicised case in RTE of a particular former mayor in a particular town in the midlands went home to nigeria to a hero's welcome. Yet, come did he come here?
Well, I would have thought that would be perceived as fraudalent... returning to the country you were claiming asylum against, would it not?walrusgumble wrote:Why would he be stripped of mayorish? did you actually stop to think about that.
That was excused when he was granted status under IBC. All bets are paid then. We can't really blame certain asylum seekers from entering to better their lives, but, telling groundless lies about their own countries is dishonest. But sure, that what happens in asylum cases . Still who are the Irish to pontificate, all those Irish - American leaders in Tammany Hall Nork York we not all legal when they first graced the States.Monifé wrote:Well, I would have thought that would be perceived as fraudalent... returning to the country you were claiming asylum against, would it not?walrusgumble wrote:Why would he be stripped of mayorish? did you actually stop to think about that.
It obviously, even to the unintelligent officials, was a fraudalent claim for asylum and I thought if there was any dishonesty, that one would be screwed when it comes to entering the world of politics. (Note: I say entering the world of politics, once in there, the lies just start growing but beforehand you usually have to have a pretty clean background!)
I'm well aware of those perceptions but addressing those is another story. It's so easy to paint immigration with a brush that is just wide enough to avoid touching the hundreds of thousands of Irish emigrants who take advantage of and often break immigration laws abroad.9jeirean wrote:The Idea of a fast tracked naturalization for IBC would be a hard one to sell, as I am not sure there is any concrete evidence to suggest any urgency for such applicants over other applicants on the queue. If anything, the reverse might be the case as the perception in some quarters about most of the beneficiaries of the IBC schemes is that of those who are here to milk the system...
Yes, I was reluctant to mention this perceived political benefit of allowing Ireland to temporarily bleed some immigrants during this economic crisis. It isn't about jaunting off to a holiday home in Turkey (though what could be more Irish than that?) It's this:...People have to proof and must be seeing to show a sense of commitment to the country they seek to be part of. People on the IBC scheme IMO should be seen to be blazing the trail here for once the is the birth place of their children...