Administrative Review - Tier 1 (G) Refusal Past Earnings

[Pranvayu]

Dear moderators,

Please can you make this thread sticky for AR for refusals due to past earnings.

I recently received refusal of my Tier 1 application due to the following reason. Please can someone help guide in preparing reply.
Points claimed = 80 Awarded = 0
Eco comment: (point 1) You stated in your application form that you worked as a consultant for xyz and you claimed a gross income of Rs. xxxxxx (pounds xxxx) which is equivalent to Rs. 1 = 0.0146 on 31/05/2010 and multiplied by *5.3) between 01/06/2009 and 31/05/2010.

(point 2) You have submitted a letter from your accountant detailing your claimed earnings however the letter covers the financial year and not the dates for which you have cliamed and therefore this cannot be used as evidence of your earnings.

(point 3) You have also submitted a bank statement from HDFC bank however this cannot be used to verify yourl income as the transactrion details do not state the company name and as the deposits do not match your salary as per your payslips.

As you have not shown two independent sources of evidence to demonstrate your claimed previous earnings, you have there for been awarded 0 points.
_____________________________________________________________
Point 1 = ECO has miscalculated my total earnings claimed resulting in only 11 months and not the full 12 months. I have checked my calculations 100 times and the sum claimed during the 12 months tally perfectly but the sum mentioned by ECO results omission of one month. (Please can you advise what my responce to this should be?)

Point 2 = I'm self employed hence submitted Profit and loss statement, IT returns, Balance sheet etc with a letter from the accountant stating the gross amount earned during the last Financial year explaining /breakdown of tax paid and exemptions claimed. This letter was never intended to provide a detailed monthly earnings. (I need to explain that the accountant letter is explanation of tax paid for the previous year since accountants use the entire financial year combined, there isn't a monthly breakdown produced) How can I word this explanation please?

Point 3 = HDFC bank statements do not mention transaction details and do not state the company name (being self employed, I receive payments via checks from the company but it's not in my control if the bank doesn't mention the issuer of the check. On the bank statements its states CHQ DEP- TRANSFER-BBC, AHMEDABAD but not the company name.
Point 3 = Deposits do not match your salary as per your pay slips". Being self employed I do not receive pay slips but have instead asked my employer to provide an earnings certificate. The earnings certificate calculated the payments made to me on monthly basis . However, the payments are made in either 2 or 3 installments hence on the earnings certificate it mentions that during a given month the total paid is xxxx but not that it's paid in 2 or 3 installments resulting in a total of xxxx.

Is it possible for me to mention in my AR that the payments are totalling xxxx amount but made in installments.

Based on all of the above my question is that is it worth trying for AR or should I just file a new application? In the new application I can cover the past earnings explanations by getting a detailed payment summary from the company explaining various payments made in detail (check number, date and amount) and then ask the bank for detailed payment summary mentioning details of each deposits (check number, date and amount) which would match perfectly with the earnings...

I want to try for the AR as my application was appropriate and no false documents or anything like that just that my mistake is that I didn't provide a detailed payment schedule. But is it possible to include this explanation in the AR and will it all be considered or shold I file a fresh application.

any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

[shah1507]

hi pranvayu,

i am also rejected, i applied on self employed activity, I am also waiting from the last 1 month

ECO Comments:

You have claimed 35 points based on your income for the period 01/04/2009 t 31/03/2010.You are required to show two pieses of evidance from two diffrent sourses to corroborrate your income. You have submitted the following documents.

1) Official tax documents.

2) Letter from your employer. According to the publish guidance, a letter form your accountant must be on headed paper and must confirm the gross and net pay for the period claimd. The letter should also give a breakdown of salary, dividands, profits , tax credits, and date of net payment earned.If the earnings are a share of the net profit of the company, the letter should also explain this.Your accountant must be either fully qualified Chartered Accountant or Certified Accountants who are the member of registered body such as ACCA, CIMA, ACA, CIPFA etc. You have not provided the requisite infirmation nor have you shown that your accountant or certified accountant is a member of egistered body.;

Given this, I am not satisfied that you have shown two pieses of evidance from two diffrent sourses. In the view above, you have not provided the correct evidance to show your privios earnigs. i have therefore awarded you 0 points.

I did my AR requst before like 1 month, but still i am waiting ,

[push]

Being self employed I do not receive pay slips but have instead asked my employer to provide an earnings certificate.

Dont understand the point - If you are self employed how does the employer come into picture?

[shah1507]

Hi push, I am also surpriced that the ECO mentioned that i've submitted a letter from my employer, even when I have clearly mentioned myself being self-employed.

[geriatrix]

I have checked my calculations 100 times and the sum claimed during the 12 months tally perfectly but the sum mentioned by ECO results omission of one month.

It is not the sum total that matters, but monthly payments must exactly match in the two independent documentary evidence(s) submitted. e.g. - Net income in accountant letter for each month must match the payment credit for the respective month in the bank statement(s).

I'm self employed hence submitted Profit and loss statement, IT returns, Balance sheet etc with a letter from the accountant stating the gross amount earned during the last Financial year explaining /breakdown of tax paid and exemptions claimed. This letter was never intended to provide a detailed monthly earnings. (I need to explain that the accountant letter is explanation of tax paid for the previous year since accountants use the entire financial year combined, there isn't a monthly breakdown produced)

Irrelevant document then, and the only purpose it served was to confuse the caseworker!

Which brings us to the question - what are the two evidences from independent sources that you submitted to claim points from income? Bank statements and ..... ??? Because, as per you the intention of the accountant letter was not that to provide detailed monthly earnings!

Being self employed I do not receive pay slips but have instead asked my employer to provide an earnings certificate.

As push has already mentioned, when self-employed, there is no concept of employer ... but that of a client. You cannot get "earning certificate" from your client but only a document describing payments made to you (against invoices raised) in your favour.

I guess you need to get back to the basics and read the policy guidance carefully - to understand what the documentary evidence(s) must show and what documentary evidence(s) are acceptable from a "self-employed" applicant.


regards

[push]

Hi push, I am also surpriced that the ECO mentioned that i've submitted a letter from my employer, even when I have clearly mentioned myself being self-employed.

But you yourself say so:

_____________________________________________________________
Point 1 = ECO has miscalculated my total earnings claimed resulting in only 11 months and not the full 12 months. I have checked my calculations 100 times and the sum claimed during the 12 months tally perfectly but the sum mentioned by ECO results omission of one month. (Please can you advise what my responce to this should be?)

Point 2 = I'm self employed hence submitted Profit and loss statement, IT returns, Balance sheet etc with a letter from the accountant stating the gross amount earned during the last Financial year explaining /breakdown of tax paid and exemptions claimed. This letter was never intended to provide a detailed monthly earnings. (I need to explain that the accountant letter is explanation of tax paid for the previous year since accountants use the entire financial year combined, there isn't a monthly breakdown produced) How can I word this explanation please?

Point 3 = HDFC bank statements do not mention transaction details and do not state the company name (being self employed, I receive payments via checks from the company but it's not in my control if the bank doesn't mention the issuer of the check. On the bank statements its states CHQ DEP- TRANSFER-BBC, AHMEDABAD but not the company name.
Point 3 = Deposits do not match your salary as per your pay slips". Being self employed I do not receive pay slips but have instead asked my employer to provide an earnings certificate. The earnings certificate calculated the payments made to me on monthly basis . However, the payments are made in either 2 or 3 installments hence on the earnings certificate it mentions that during a given month the total paid is xxxx but not that it's paid in 2 or 3 installments resulting in a total of xxxx.

Is it possible for me to mention in my AR that the payments are totalling xxxx amount but made in installments.

Based on all of the above my question is that is it worth trying for AR or should I just file a new application? In the new application I can cover the past earnings explanations by getting a detailed payment summary from the company explaining various payments made in detail (check number, date and amount) and then ask the bank for detailed payment summary mentioning details of each deposits (check number, date and amount) which would match perfectly with the earnings...

I want to try for the AR as my application was appropriate and no false documents or anything like that just that my mistake is that I didn't provide a detailed payment schedule. But is it possible to include this explanation in the AR and will it all be considered or shold I file a fresh application.

any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

[shah1507]

sorry push,

) Official tax documents.

2) Letter from your employer. According to the publish guidance, a letter form your accountant must be on headed paper and must confirm the gross and net pay for the period claimd. The letter should also give a breakdown of salary, dividands, profits , tax credits, and date of net payment earned.If the earnings are a share of the net profit of the company, the letter should also explain this.Your accountant must be either fully qualified Chartered Accountant or Certified Accountants who are the member of registered body such as ACCA, CIMA, ACA, CIPFA etc. You have not provided the requisite infirmation nor have you shown that your accountant or certified accountant is a member of egistered body.;

According to my refusal.....

[geriatrix]

shah1507, read Eco Comments---nedd help carefully to understand why your AR may not be successful. Others are welcome to post their opinions, in the linked topic.



regards

[Pranvayu]

Dear all,

Thanks for your feedback. Granted, I'm referring to my source of income as employer incorrectly and should be saying client. My bad.

The two sources of income are:

1) Earnings certificate from "client" detailing the gross payment, lesss TDS, equals net payment. They have also mentioned that I am providing consultancy to them since...... and that they are crediting the payment to my bank acct no.......
2) Bank statments which has entries marked as "chq deposited from .acct no (unfortunately it doesn't mention the company name....)

I believe the above two proof of income should be suffiecient. The problem here is that I receive two cheques during the month so total monthly payments isn't reflected exactly in the bank statements.

So this bring us to the answer I need to draft for my AR. is it possible for me to mention to the ECO that the payments received were in part payments and the earnings certificate mentioned monthly combined payment. The breakdown of payments received each month can be provided by me (I will enclose all payments received from client, vs entries in the banks) and or suggest "kindly' to the ECO that I can provide detailed earninings certifciate mentioning each payment for each month with cheque number, date, amount paid etc and can also get it in writing from the bank the credit details which would again cover cheque number, date, amount, and issuer of the cheque./adm

[geriatrix]

1) Earnings certificate from "client" detailing the gross payment, lesss TDS, equals net payment. They have also mentioned that I am providing consultancy to them since...... and that they are crediting the payment to my bank acct no.......

For payment summaries to be considered as valid evidence, they must be issued by the accountant, not the client (140(vii)).

The problem here is that I receive two cheques during the month so total monthly payments isn't reflected exactly in the bank statements.

Two cheques, two deposits - then why the mismatch?

Eco comment: (point 1) You stated in your application form that you worked as a consultant for xyz and you claimed a gross income of Rs. xxxxxx (pounds xxxx) which is equivalent to Rs. 1 = 0.0146 on 31/05/2010 and multiplied by *5.3) between 01/06/2009 and 31/05/2010.

(point 2) You have submitted a letter from your accountant detailing your claimed earnings however the letter covers the financial year and not the dates for which you have cliamed and therefore this cannot be used as evidence of your earnings.

If your claim period is 01/06/09 to 31/05/09, then the accountant letter must certify your income from self-employment for (exactly) the same period - and not the financial year.


regards

[Pranvayu]

Mates,

I`ve just realized something whilst going thru the documents requirements for previous earnings for Self Employed and realized that bank statments aren`t to be submitted but instead

Documentary evidence for self-employed
• a letter from your managing agent or accountant (confirming you received the exact amount you are claiming or the net profit for which you are entitled
• invoice explanations or payment summaries from your managing agent or accountant –
• company or business accounts that clearly show the net profit of the company or business –
• official tax document produced by the tax authority

Please can someone confirm if Bank statments are to be produced also and if they can be considered

for my application, I had supplied Bank statemetns and Earnings Certificate from source of income as proof. The refusal doens`t point out that the Bank statements cant`be used it says that the accountant details cover the financial year and not the dates fro which I had claimed.

Please can I check which documents should have been produced for self employeddd

[Pranvayu]

Thanks SushdMehta,

Your input, as always, is very valuable. Thanks a ton mate.

Pranvayu wrote:
The problem here is that I receive two cheques during the month so total monthly payments isn't reflected exactly in the bank statements.

Two cheques, two deposits - then why the mismatch?

The payemnts aren`t mismatching, but instead whats happened is that the Earnings Certificate from client state for example; in June I received a gross sum of Rs. xxxxxx. Now this payment was done in two parts hence two cheques, and two deposits in bank statements. I didn`t point out that the gross payment is made in two parts and to refer to the two entries in the bank deposits. I assumed the ECO would check that out but I should have clarified things.


If your claim period is 01/06/09 to 31/05/09, then the accountant letter must certify your income from self-employment for (exactly) the same period - and not the financial year.

I guess you`re spot on as that what`s ECO have also mentioned. I didn`t consider this correctly.

My main problem is that I didn`t provide appropriate details for the earnings whilst as self employed. I provided bank statements and Earnings certificate but that`s a requirment for salaried emploees and not self employed. I should have provided detailed summary via accountant detailed summary and invoices.

Thanks Sushdmehta for your input.

[geriatrix]

I`ve just realized something whilst going thru the documents requirements for previous earnings for Self Employed and realized that bank statments aren`t to be submitted

As suggested before, read the guidance carefully (140(ix)).

Address the issues / mistakes, and apply afresh.



regards

[Pranvayu]

Hi SushdMehta,

One more question on the same topic please.

Is it worth applying for AR still as the financial year in my IT returns did cover 10 months which does allow me to gain 45 points.

Would it be worth asking the ECO to consider the 10 months and grant me 45 points instead of the 80 points or will they not look at this info since I`ve asked for 80 points in my application.

[Pranvayu]

Dear Sushdmehta:

I have sent my AR noting the following: What are your thoughts?

GV51 comment Para 4: As you have not shown two independent sources of evidence to demonstrate your claimed previous earnings, you have therefore been awarded 0 points.

My reply:
I wish to submit that the following independent sources of evidence were produced in my application:
1) IT returns with Computation of Income for the F.Y 2009 – 2010.
2) Audit reports, Profit and Loss, Balance Sheet from the Chartered Accountant for the F.Y. 2009- 2010.
3) Form 16 (A) detailing Income and Tax deducted at source. (which contain 10 months from the period claimed)
4) Consultancy Income/Earnings Certificate from ,,,,.
5) HDFC bank statements for Account no: ........

I would like to state the following:
1. I have provided evidences from five independent sources including Tax Authorities, Governmental tax collection authorities, Chartered Accountants, Banks and the Private Limited company making the payments.
2. I concede that maybe part of the income (ten months) is evidenced by different sources (IT returns) than the remaining part (two months) (Not evidenced apart from consultancy income certificate from source of income and bank statements) but my understanding is that doing so is not against policy.
3. That the policy guidance to caseworkers on earnings claimed clearly stipulates the following:
“What time period should earnings cover?
1. The applicant can request that their earnings be considered for any consecutive period of up to twelve months within the fifteen months immediately prior to their application being received by WP (UK). Applicants do not need to claim for a full twelve-month period. If they only have earnings for a period of less than twelve months then this should still be considered. However, earnings for a period of less than twelve months should not be pro-rated up to a twelve-month equivalent. Earnings must be for one consecutive period, and the applicant should indicate on the application form the start and end date of the earnings period being claimed. For example, the applicant can request that we consider the first six months of the fifteen months immediately prior to their application being received. However, we cannot consider the first six months, exclude the middle three months, and include the final six months within the fifteen month period. If the applicant claims for a period outside/exceeding the twelve months out of a fifteen-month period prior to theapplication date, then the twelve months directly prior to the application date should be assessed. If the applicant has been studying during this period please see the paragraph below concerning time out of employment for study.â€

[geriatrix]

You are applying for Tier 1 (General) but, in case you didn't notice or realize, the references in your post above (and perhaps in the AR too) are from "HSMP caseworker guidance".

I have already highlighted the errors in the application in my responses above.


regards

[Pranvayu]

Hi Sushdmehta,

Not clear is f.y 2009-2010 falls out of the 15 months when my application filed in August 2010 as June 2009 to March 2010 (10 months) do fall within the 15 months period.

My submission is that the June 209 to March is within 15 months period and these 10 months have been evidence via: Tax returns, Audited accounts reports, Form 16A, Bank Statments and Income certificate. (are these appropriate mode of evidence for self employed?)

I had claimed 80 points in my initial appliction but concede that even if 10 months from June 09 - March 10 are considered I should still get 45 points.

Would I be awarded 45 points or would be expected to file a new application claiming the exact sum?

I didn't realize that the guidance I had were from HSMP and not the recent Tier 1 guidance. Please can you also check if the guidance for awarding points are different now?

[geriatrix]

Not clear is f.y 2009-2010 falls out of the 15 months when my application filed in August 2010 as June 2009 to March 2010 (10 months) do fall within the 15 months period. ?

My mistake, response above edited.

regards

[Pranvayu]

No probs mate,

Thanks for the clarification. Please can you still clarifiy the following:
1) Are the 5 sources of evidence appropriate for Self Emplyed? (I now know that exactly should have been but too late for that now)
2) I claimed 80 points but if 45 points are evidenced via tax returns, audit report from the account, Form 16 A etc, would I be given 45 points still or would I have to file a new application?

Cheers

[Pranvayu]

Hi Sudhdmehta,

As mentioned in my earlier post, I've already filed the AR and now patiently waiting for an outcome. I know it's hard to guess what's going to happen but I wanted to get your opinion as to my question above.

Please mate, can you comment if the reviewing officer will consider my earnings based on the 5 sources I've mentioned for Self Employed or will I be asked to file for a new application?

Cheers,

[Pranvayu]

Dear all,

After a long wait, the AR has been successful and I received a letter today stating: " I have reviewd your application and the original documentary evidence provided. I am pleased to confirm that you have now been awarded the required number of points and your application can be granted.

Entry clearance will now be granted. Please forward your passport to VFS to enable us to attach your visa."

Thanks all for your duidance and please can you help with the following two querry.

1) I want to leave for the UK in April or May next year so is it OK for me to ask them to stamp the Visa from 1st April 2011?

2) Would the current caps and limited quota per month affect my visa stamping anyhow if I ask for it to be stamped in April?

thanks

[geriatrix]

I want to leave for the UK in April or May next year so is it OK for me to ask them to stamp the Visa from 1st April 2011?

ECB9.5 What if applicant is not intending to travel straight away to the UK

regards

[Pranvayu]

Hi Sushdmehta,

Thanks for the link. It states that the date can be deferred up to 3 months. I am intending on travelling after 5 months. Should I try and ask the ECO to stamp it from 5 months or stick to the 3 months as stipulated in the link?

Cheers,

[sarvind]

Hi,

I applied on the 9th Nov and got my rejection letter today .

I was deputed to UK by my current employer on a work permit for the last two months (Sept and Oct 2010).

During the last two months, since it was a short term, I was paid both Indian and UK salaries (effectively I had an Indian and UK salary for both sept 2010 and oct 2010).

I had applied the uplift ratio for the indian salary and no uplift ratio for the salary earned in UK. But the embassy has not applied an uplift ratio eventhough the salary was got in India.

I understand the ukba guide says as below:

132. The country in which the applicant has physically undertaken the work, rather than his/her nationality, the currency payment is made in or the country in which payment is made, determines the income band against which we will assess the earnings.

133. Where an applicant has earnings from more than one country, the points based calculator will apply the appropriate uplift ratio for each country in which the relevant earnings were made in order to provide a total UK equivalent value of earnings.

It states the income band will be assessed based on the country where the work was undertaken, But it does not clearly indicate the uplift ratio will be applied based on the country where it was undertaken.

Please suggest based on your previous experience, if I should go for the Adminstrative Review process and how to approach it.

Thank You in advance.

[Pranvayu]

Hi Sarvind,

I would definately suggest to go for an AR. its doesn't cost a thing and if you aren't hard pressed to travel immediately.

Not sure about the approach in your case as mine was bit different. May be SushdMehta or other seniors can advise.