claiming tax credits and supose insurance number

[monikamroz]

im polish (5 years in uk). my husband is from egypt(he came here on visitor visa, which expired before we get married)in may 2009 we got married in registration office.and after that applied for residency card for my husband(still waiting for HO to reply)have only cErtificate of APLICATION.
im self employed since may 2010. on 17 may i made join claim for working tax credit and child tax credit. today i reciced letter saying we not gonna get this tax as my husband does not have insurance number.
what to do? been thinking maybe to contact HO and request certificed copy of his passport and just simply go to Job centre and apply for his NIN. but his immigration status still not clear. please help.

[John]

Oh dear, more staff training needed at the Tax Credits office!

You need to refer them to The Tax Credits (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2009, which took effect on 6 April 2009, and in particular reg. 14, which reads :-

[quote]Amendment of the Tax Credits (Claims and Notifications) Regulations 2002

14. Regulation 5 (manner in which claims to be made) is amended as follows.

(1) In paragraph (4) for “paragraph (6)â€

[monikamroz]

thank you . you helped us so much.

today i have recived letter from Job Center Plus. they made appointment for my husband for NIN.(but requested to bring his passport, work permit etc) which we of course dont have.
should i just ignore it??? and make appeal to Tax Office regarding refusal of my claim???

and would be gratefull if you could explain me one more issue: my solicitor today as well told me that claiming Working Tax credit and child tax credit is a social fund and we are no eligible to claim it as it may be reson to reject my husband case with HO.
I found some information but im not sure do i understand it correctly:
IMMIGRATION DIRECTORATE INSTRUCTIONS
ANNEX F
CHAPTER 8 SPOUSES & CIVIL PARTNERS
SECTION 1 & 2
FAMILY MEMBERS - MAINTENANCE AND ACCOMMODATION

2. PUBLIC FUNDS
The requirements are designed to prevent the admission of persons who do not have
realistic prospects of supporting themselves without recourse to public funds. For the
purpose of the Immigration Rules "Public funds" means:
- Income Support/Jobseekers' Allowance (JSA)
- Housing and Homelessness Assistance
- Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit
- Family Credit*- Child Benefit*
- Attendance Allowance
- Severe Disablement Allowance
- Invalid Care Allowance
- Disability Living Allowance
- Disability Working Allowance
IDI March 06 CH8 SECT1 & 2 – SPOUSES & CIVIL PARTNERS - ANNEX F
* The British/settled spouse or civil partner may claim family credit and child benefit
for his or her family if they are entitled to this under DWP legislation. Furthermore,
where a foreign spouse / civil partner / unmarried or same sex partner is married or in a
civil partnership or in a relationship to a person present and settled in the United
Kingdom he/she may claim family credit on behalf of his/her spouse/civil
partner/unmarried or same sex partner and family. For further information on the
definition of public funds see Chapter 1, Section 7 - Annex W.
Home Office policy on public funds is that there is no objection to the British
citizen/settled sponsor receiving any public funds to which he is entitled in his own right.
The important factor to consider is whether there will be a need for the sponsor to claim
additional public funds to support the applicant. The fact that an applicant may not be
eligible to claim public funds is not in itself sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the
Rules (see also Chapter 1, Section 7 - Public Funds).


could you be so kind and explain me this point.

thank you.

[John]

today i have recived letter from Job Center Plus. they made appointment for my husband for NIN.(but requested to bring his passport, work permit etc) which we of course dont have.
should i just ignore it??? and make appeal to Tax Office regarding refusal of my claim???

You should do both of those things, keep the appointment, and also appeal to HMRC.

As regards your Solicitor, I am not impressed. I suggest he gets up-to-speed with the issues here, and in particular reads para 6B of the Immigration Rules, which covers the situation here.

[aweeshoe]

Hi I'm in a similar position to you with regards to Immigration and child tax credits. The purpose of the interview with the DWP is to confirm your husbands identity.
"The Jobcentre Plus / Social Security Office will invite the claimant to attend an interview to confirm their identity. Once the claimant's identity has been confirmed it will then be possible to allocate a NINO."
For this you will need some form of photo id, I understand your husband has no passport and I assume he does't have anything else on the list. My husband recieved a letter from the UK Border Agency requesting he attends the local police station once a week this has his photo, nationality, address and dob, the DWP national insurance hotline have confirmed that this will suffice.
The DWP do not issue temorary NINO's the HMRC do this themselves though most of the staff seem unaware of this (including head office) I wish you good luck with HMRC and to be persistant as it depends on who you talk too, my joint claim was at first dismissed and then they advised me to make an individual claim which was stopped so I'm back to square 1 making a joint claim again.
My claim has so far taken over a year to resolve! My M.P. is now involved and has written to the Treasury hoping to make a change especially when children are involved.

[John]

I really don't understand why HMRC still seem to be insisting upon both spouses having a NI number, when the legislation changed nearly 18 months ago .... see my post above .... Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:27 pm.

aweeshoe, you are very right to involve your MP. You might suggest to your MP that is this can't be sorted quickly that he/she refers this matter to the ombudsman.

[HRY2005]

Aweeshoe

Once the claimant's identity has been confirmed it will then be possible to allocate a NINO.

You must attend the Jobcentre appointment, as the basis for that is to verify your identity. You will not be issued a NINO, you' ll receive a letter from the Jobcentre refusing you a NINO for not having the right to work/leave to remain(dont worry about it)

The HMRC will issued a temporary Ref: No. to process your claim after the interview, its not a NINO. As John has mentioned, I believe it's still down to ''Staff training''. We have just sorted our own claim since February and have the first payment yesterday the 5th(following John's advise). We were first refused in May and we appeal, that was because they(hmrc) thought I didn't turn up for the Jobcentre interview but I didn't received any interview letter. So we appealed and put a new claim through.

In my case, my passport was with the HO but I have got a certified copy of my passport and some HO letters, showing my name, nationality and DOB. I also went to the interview with our newly issued COA for marriage as it contained my full details including my passport number. A letter from my Solicitor informing the Jobcentre to ask the HO to send them a copy of my passport directly if they are not happy with the one I presented(she claimed that's the procedure for public authorities and the HO). Fortunately, that was enough.

I hope that helps.

[aweeshoe]

HMRC phoned back to say that they haven’t been able to come to a decision. They said that a previous case went to appeal but the person was misinterpreting the rules. They will come back by the end of the week.

I found the legislation that has been refered to in an earlier post on the HMRC website and sent it to my M.P. she has quoted it to a contact I now have in HMRC so fingers crossed.

[aweeshoe]

I have found the relevant staff guidelines on hmrc.gov.uk if you search TCTM06110 - Claims and Notification
Provision and Verification of a NINO
The Tax Credits (Claims and Notifications) Regulations 2002, Reg. 5 (4)

It clearly states in plain english the Tax Credit Act 2002 amedments. The HMRC say it can still be open to interpretation and the individual decision makers discretion but they must do so within the Human Rights Act. You can appeal the decision it can take up to 6 months for it to be heard. I am now advising the CAB, welfare rights and my M.P. who is taking my case to the Treasury. If anyone else is having a similar experiance please post as perhaps we can make a difference.

[chunkybeefsoup]

The Tax Credits office is closed until Tues 12th Oct for system maintenance.

FYI

[HRY2005]

I have found the relevant staff guidelines on hmrc.gov.uk if you search TCTM06110 - Claims and Notification
Provision and Verification of a NINO
The Tax Credits (Claims and Notifications) Regulations 2002, Reg. 5 (4)

It clearly states in plain english the Tax Credit Act 2002 amedments. The HMRC say it can still be open to interpretation and the individual decision makers discretion but they must do so within the Human Rights Act. You can appeal the decision it can take up to 6 months for it to be heard. I am now advising the CAB, welfare rights and my M.P. who is taking my case to the Treasury. If anyone else is having a similar experiance please post as perhaps we can make a difference.

If you read to the refered bottom of that page, this is what it says
''Following a change in DWP Regulations (2009) NINO’s will no longer be issued to people residing in the UK illegally. These people will still have to verify their identity at an identity interview (usually held at a DWP office) but they will no longer receive a NINO after this interview''

What that was saying is that you are entitled to the claim but ''hmrc'' would not process/approve the claim until your identity is verified by having an Identity interview(NINO interview) with the Jobcentre.

[aweeshoe]

We eventually recieved notification that our claim has been processed and our award will be made and back dated... on condition I drop my complaint! Which I hae agreed to, but my M.P has written to the Treasury and HMRC describing the difficulties we've had and my suggestions to make claims straight forward (staff training!!!) I have also been offered a casual contract with our local welfare rights to advise any-one else that may be going through something similar.

[John]

We eventually recieved notification that our claim has been processed and our award will be made and back dated... on condition I drop my complaint!

I am appalled! I hope your MP is going to take this further! Why should you need to drop the complaint in order to get the claim back-dated?

[monikamroz]

just like You all been saying on friday we got a letter from job center plus. and of course they refused to allocate NIN for my husband as he have no right to work.
i think now only left for me to wait for a decision from DWP regarding my claim for Working tax & child tax credits (already called them 3 times each time quoting The Tax Credits (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2009 and in particular reg. 14 but only what heard was:please allowa us up to 4 - 5weeks to process the claim)

[John]

Tax Credits are administered by HMRC, not by DWP. But yes, do let us know what response you now get from HMRC about the Tax Credits claim that has been made.

Is it the Tax Credits office you have been phoning?

[MissJo]

My fiancé came over in July on the fiancé visa and I immediately informed the tax credits so they cancelled my single claim and we applied jointly. The first claim form went missing and it took weeks for the different departments to try and trace it so we sent another claim in.

On Friday gone we received a letter from the DWP with an appointment for him to get a NINO, obviously we know he isn't going to get one as he can't work on the fiancé visa so I rang the tax credits office and was told the following:

The appointment is to verify his identity and to see if he should be issued with a NINO. If he isn't to be issued with a NINO then for tax credits purposes HMRC will issue him with a NONO (yes, a real term for the tax credits office apparently). This is basically a temporary NI Number that can be used for tax credit purposes only.

Hopefully after nearly 3 months there is light at the end of the tunnel for our claim :-/ Best of luck with yours!

[monikamroz]

Tax Credits are administered by HMRC, not by DWP. But yes, do let us know what response you now get from HMRC about the Tax Credits claim that has been made.

Is it the Tax Credits office you have been phoning?

he he my mistake
yes been calling Tax credits office. 0845 300 3900

[VT]

In exactly the same predicament, could somebody help me? My post is 'REPORTING CARD... OR NOT?' .. Really need some advice.

[monikamroz]

finally, today we got a decision that my tax credits will be paid.
John thanks for advices.
and lets hope that it will not affect my husband case in home office.

[John]

monikamroz, I am delighted to read that, but it is disappointing that it took so long for HMRC to reach the inevitable conclusion.

But a small subtle change to what you posted. You said "we got a decision that my tax credits will be paid" but it would be better for you to say "we got a decision that our tax credits will be paid". The point is of course, as required in respect of a couple living together, the Tax Credits claim must be in joint names ..... and the immigration angle on this is that para 6B of the Immigration Rules is in play here .... so for your husband this is not Public Funds.

[monikamroz]

yes John you are right. again. he he
i meant to say "OUR" for me and my husband as my claim is in joint names. and because of that it takes us to wait so long but the best thing is that we are going to be paid from may 2010.
and sorry for my spelling misteakes.

[rkabishi]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/TCTM06110.htm

I have got the same problem.Made a joint claim in sept 2010(my partner has 5 years refugee and me subject to immigration control).Claim was refused and been advised to make a single claim,then re advised to withdraw it and continue with joint claim,we have made the appeal about the refusal since december 2010.received a letter last week that they have received the appeal and they will get back to us b4 april 2011.we have made a complain and still waiting.Total madness..........

[John]

rkabishi, I am appalled to read of your experience, and even more appalled to see that HMRC do not appear to have altered their manual to deal with the change of legislation which took effect nearly two years ago. No longer their staff are making ridiculous decisions.

I shall now write a strongly worded message to HMRC recommending that they change the webpage that you provide a link to. As and when I receive a reply I shall post again in this topic.

In the meantime rkabishi, don't hesitate to contact me if you need any assistance with the Tax Credits appeal.

[alina143]

hi im in the similar situation i didnt know my partner is an overstayer we went to jobcenter to apply for jobseeker allowance 2gether but he got arrested. The jobcenter started my income support up again as my partner has no recourse to public funds. But tax credits told us to put a joint claim in together and i did they know al the situation because my jobcenter adviser rang them and told them i have been ringing them but al i get is we are still processing it and that my partner has to go for nino interview but they know he cant get it plz i realy need sum advise i also have 4 kids and im a british citizen. My partner is signing at the police station once a month.

[Greenie]

an overstayer can get a NINO, and he will need one in order for you to make a join claim for tax credits. A NINO does not mean someone can work however.