Do we still need to apply for CoA?

[VV]

Firstly, thanks to every one for this forum.
I am a national of Paraguay, engaged to a Dutch national who has a fulltime job in London since March this year and we want to get married and eventually settle in the UK. For the past 5 and half years I have been living in the Netherlands as a student (first as undergraduate, now as graduate student). At the moment I'm in London with my fiance on the standard LTR for 6 months obtained on entering the UK, because, obviously, we want to be together.
My 1st question(s) is (are): how does this month's ruling on the CoA affect people with the same type of LTR as mine? Do I still need to go back to Holland and apply for the visitor-to-get-married visa? Do people still have to apply for the CoA at all?
Then, regarding the visa types, an officer in the Britsh Consulate in Amsterdam told me I should get the standard visa for visitors (see here http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servle ... 4069173793 ) to come to London, get married and then go back to Holland and apply for the EEA Family Permit from there. I'm sure I've read many times before that visa-country nationals should have a visa for longer than 6 months if they wish to marry in the UK, so why do I need to go and get a standard visa? Moreover, how is that 6-month visa different from the one I've got on my passport right now and which I can get basically every time I enter the UK?
Thank you for bearing with me, and hope you can answer my questions.

[JAJ]

Firstly, thanks to every one for this forum.
I am a national of Paraguay, engaged to a Dutch national who has a fulltime job in London since March this year and we want to get married and eventually settle in the UK. For the past 5 and half years I have been living in the Netherlands as a student (first as undergraduate, now as graduate student). At the moment I'm in London with my fiance on the standard LTR for 6 months obtained on entering the UK, because, obviously, we want to be together.
My 1st question(s) is (are): how does this month's ruling on the CoA affect people with the same type of LTR as mine? Do I still need to go back to Holland and apply for the visitor-to-get-married visa? Do people still have to apply for the CoA at all?
Then, regarding the visa types, an officer in the Britsh Consulate in Amsterdam told me I should get the standard visa for visitors (see here http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servle ... 4069173793 ) to come to London, get married and then go back to Holland and apply for the EEA Family Permit from there. I'm sure I've read many times before that visa-country nationals should have a visa for longer than 6 months if they wish to marry in the UK, so why do I need to go and get a standard visa? Moreover, how is that 6-month visa different from the one I've got on my passport right now and which I can get basically every time I enter the UK?
Thank you for bearing with me, and hope you can answer my questions.

Can't really help on your COA question, but you do need to be aware that the EEA Family Permit is not permanent residence in the UK. Citizens of EEA states (other than Ireland) aren't deemed to be "permanent residents" either until that status is obtained.

You and your wife should look to obtain Indefinite Leave to Remain in due course and possibly British citizenship in due course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_Leave_to_Remain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

I don't know about Paraguay, it does seem that the Netherlands allows dual citizenship in some circumstances - but not others:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law

Do you plan to have children born in the UK? If so, you should make yourselves aware of how the British nationality rules work for UK-born children and how you can get British citizenship for your future kids if they don't have it at birth.

[ppron747]

I posted a snippet from the IND website yesterday, in "imagine's" thread headed "COA????" From that, it appears that IND are taking the position that the only thing the court ruling has altered is that they won't be refusing some cases - they'll be deferring a decision until they've come up with a way of proceeding, while still complying with the court ruling. But they'll still be granting the cases that they would have granted before the ruling.
So I think the answer is that you do still need either a COA (which I don't think you qualify for) or a marriage visit visa. Sorry to say that I think the advice you received from the Consulate General in Amsterdam was not correct.
Since marriage is obviously on the cards, how about marrying in the Netherlands, and coming back on an EEA Family Permit?

[VV]

So I think the answer is that you do still need either a COA (which I don't think you qualify for) or a marriage visit visa. Sorry to say that I think the advice you received from the Consulate General in Amsterdam was not correct.

Thanks very much for the replies. So from your reply I gather that one does not need both the marriage visit visa and the COA, one only needs one or the other, is that correct?
Because the next step my fiance and I are going to take is for me to go back to Holland to apply for the marriage visit visa. Once I'm back in the UK, can we go straight to the General Register Office to give notice of our marriage?
Just to clarify: I'm a girl, I'm from Paraguay, but I have residence in the Netherlands as a student. My boyfriend/fiance is Dutch.

[ppron747]

So I think the answer is that you do still need either a COA (which I don't think you qualify for) or a marriage visit visa. Sorry to say that I think the advice you received from the Consulate General in Amsterdam was not correct.

Thanks very much for the replies. So from your reply I gather that one does not need both the marriage visit visa and the COA, one only needs one or the other, is that correct?
Because the next step my fiance and I are going to take is for me to go back to Holland to apply for the marriage visit visa. Once I'm back in the UK, can we go straight to the General Register Office to give notice of our marriage?
Just to clarify: I'm a girl, I'm from Paraguay, but I have residence in the Netherlands as a student. My boyfriend/fiance is Dutch.

Yes and Yes! (Except it isn't the GRO - it's your local registry office..)
I must confess to a bt of puzzlement as to why you're going down this route, though. Why come as a visitor for marriage, if you're intending eventually to settle here. Isn't that inserting an extra unnecessary step into the process?

[VV]

Yes and Yes! (Except it isn't the GRO - it's your local registry office..)
I must confess to a bt of puzzlement as to why you're going down this route, though. Why come as a visitor for marriage, if you're intending eventually to settle here. Isn't that inserting an extra unnecessary step into the process?

Thank you so much for pointing out all these things, we have really entangled ourselves so much with all these rules and regulations that we may be making things more complicated than necessary.

We thought of applying for the marriage visit visa for a few reasons:
(info from http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 1067257#Q1)

- My fiancé is present in the UK, but we're not sure about his "settled" status. He doesn't have a resident card, or isn't inscribed any where, he only just got his NI nr this week, even though he started working fulltime in March. We are unsure about the steps we need take for him to properly settle.

- Furthermore, according to this site, I will be allowed to stay in the UK for six months but without permission to work. After having married or having registered a civil partnership, I can apply for a two-year extension to my visa and will be allowed to work.
Does this mean I won't be allowed to work for the whole 6 months even if we married before the 6-month period is over? Only when the period is nearing its end can I apply for a two-year visa extension (and be able to work)?

So this is why we thought that it might be more effective to take the marriage visit visa path.

Thank you for taking an interest in our case, you are helping us a lot

[ppron747]

You're now taking me into uncharted waters - uncharted for me, at least!!

The UKVisas website is usually pretty helpful with general information, but the "public-facing" pages don't cover the situation of the visa-national fiance of an EU national who is exercising "treaty rights" but who hasn't got indefinite leave to remain (ILR) and who isn't, therefore, "settled" in the UK within the meaning of the Immigration Rules.

BUT, tucked away on the website are the Entry Clearance Diplomatic Service Procedures (DSP) - their staff instructions. Paragraph 21.4.4, which you'll find on this page says that what you need to do is to apply for a fiancee visa in the same way as you would if your fiance was "settled" in the UK and they will still deal with it. This page should help with the criteria.

But there's another BUT, I'm afraid! Tensailee very helpfully posted new Regulations for family members of EU/EEA nationals the other day, here. Frankly, I don't yet understand them - and UKVisas hasn't yet updated its website, so I'm not sure where this leaves you. I hope someone cleverer than me can chime in at this point....

[VV]

Thanks for the links Paul.
I've got a new question though. Do you know if it's possible to apply for the EEA family permit from within the UK -once you're married-, having entered the country on the 6-month marriage visit visa?
Please, any one who can point us in the right direction?