who are interested in protest against changes of 4-5

a11 · Post by **a11** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:25 pm

How about an e-petition to Tony Blair? This should be done in a more 'official' fashion than that electronic petition already opened on some website. We should make sure that all the names, addresses and professional positions are specified properly. As for the text to use, I think the most suitable one so far was that of the request to sign EDM 1912. We could edit it a tiny little bit to turn it into a more general one (but still with a mention that such EDM actually exists).

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:34 pm

But EDM 1912 is for disapproval of (HC 974) fully and it would be difficult for any Parliamentarian to disapprove it completely.One can argue the Retrospective Implementation of these changes as it is uncommon to British Law.

a11 · Post by **a11** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:37 pm

ok then let's not mention EDM 1912 whatsoever. but i think a collective letter to tony is still worth writing.

Post by **JAJ** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:42 pm

morerightsformigrants wrote: 4 We then went onto the most problematic issue for our meeting. It appears the knowledge of English is going to be applied stringently and a absolute pre requisite to all Tier 1 and 2 applicants. We have had meeting after meeting with Ministers and were pacified to say it will be alright. We spent best part of an hour arguing to our faces became blue why English requirement would kill all applications for investors or chefs from China. The most ridiculous line I got from them was “if the chef wants to come they should go and learn English”! They insist that to work in the UK the migrant must have a minimum standard of English. It is meant to help integration. The best I could achieve was for them to look at the level of the English requirement. We felt it is not genuine. We are going back to the Politicians on this point.

I would think that mainstream British opinion doesn't really mind if the English language rules "kill all applications for investors or chefs from China"

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:45 pm

Can we send email to any Parliamentarian regarding this issue as it is of National interest ,not related to any particular constituency or we can send email only to Parliamentarian of our own constituency? Any opinion

nonothing · Post by **nonothing** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:57 pm

aj77 wrote:But EDM 1912 is for disapproval of (HC 974) fully and it would be difficult for any Parliamentarian to disapprove it completely.One can argue the Retrospective Implementation of these changes as it is uncommon to British Law.

good point.

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:16 pm

I can see list of Approx. 650 Parliamentarians,their websites and emails in that link:

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alcm.cfm

If we could start sending Standard email to every Parliamentarian regarding Retorospective Implementation of (HC 1016) irrespective of our living address and considering it to be issue of National level and out of those 650 Parliamentarians if 10 percent Members take it seriously it could work.Any opinion?

Post by **JAJ** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:25 pm

aj77 wrote:If we could start sending Standard email to every Parliamentarian regarding Retorospective Implementation of (HC 1016) irrespective of our living address and considering it to be issue of National level and out of those 650 Parliamentarians if 10 percent Members take it seriously it could work.Any opinion?

This is not an issue of national importance, irrespective of what you might think, sorry.

Most MPs are only interested in correspondence from:
- their constituents; or
- non-constituents concerning an issue in which they take a particular interest.

Flooding every email box in Parliament is not going to help you in the slightest, you may want to be more thoughtful and direct messages at MPs who have in the past taken an interest in immigration matters.

In any case, the change of the rules isn't "retrospective" as it doesn't affect those who already have ILR. There was never any commitment on the part of the United Kingdom to offer settlement after four years.

rooi_ding · Post by **rooi_ding** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:31 pm

Hi all

if everyone could hold fire on posting anything electronic or paper based (along the lines of a petition). We are hoping to post the results of yesterdays meeting on this forum and other forums regarding a more co-ordinated attack

Watch this space for more details

a11 · Post by **a11** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:33 pm

RE to JAJ
1) in the case of HSMP, there was a commitment of the UK's part.
2) as for the WP holders, the case is trickier. i see two ways to pursue the case: 1) to refer to the fact that WP's are actually only issued to those people who are needed by the UK (by definition), so if something makes them really angry, it might be worth giving it a second thought; and 2) to 'merge' the HSMP and WP cases not emphasizing the distinctions between them.

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:33 pm

Yeah I might be wrong then What is it?

24.9 Q: What if the scheme changes?

A: As with any immigration scheme we reserve the right to adapt some of the criteria or documentation associated
with the scheme and will inform you via our websites of any such changes. All applications will be treated on the
basis of the HSMP provisions at the time that they were submitted.

24.10 Q: I have already applied successfully under HSMP. How does the revised HSMP affect me?

A: Not at all. It is important to note that once you have entered under the programme you are in a category that has
an avenue to settlement. Those who have already entered under HSMP will be allowed to stay and apply for
settlement after four years qualifying residence regardless of these revisions to HSMP

26.5 Q: How long can I stay in the UK if I enter as a skilled migrant?

A: You will initially be given 12 months stay. If you want to remain in the UK under the HSMP, you should apply for
an extension of your stay in the last month before the expiry of your permission to stay in the UK. For further
information, please see “Extension of stay in the United Kingdom” section. You will be able to amalgamate leave
in other categories that lead to settlement for example, please see “Extension of stay in the United Kingdom
section.” towards the end of that period you can apply to remain in the same capacity for a further period of up
to three years.
After four years in the UK as a highly skilled migrant you can apply for settlement. The main criteria for
settlement will be that you have spent a continuous period of four years in the UK (except for trips abroad of
three months or less, totalling less than six months in the four year period) in a category leading to settlement
and that you continue to be economically active in the UK as a highly skilled migrant

rooi_ding · Post by **rooi_ding** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:36 pm

Hi all

if everyone could hold fire on posting anything electronic or paper based (along the lines of a petition). We are hoping to post the results of yesterdays meeting on this forum and other forums regarding a more co-ordinated attack

Watch this space for more details

easylife4me · Post by **easylife4me** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:59 pm

ndian-origin doctors plan to hold protest demonstration
GG2.NET NEWS [10/04/2006]

ABOUT 300 doctors of Indian origin plan to hold a demonstration outside Britain`s Department of Health in London on April 21 to protest against new rules to be introduced from July making work permits mandatory for non-EU medical practitioners to work in the National Health Service

(NHS). So far doctors from outside the European Union, including from India, were able to take up NHS jobs under "permit free

training" schemes. Their jobs were considered part of training that did not require work permits.

The protest demonstration is being organised by the British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin (BAPIO), with a membership of over 25,000.

Buddhdev Pandya, Honorary Corporate Advisor of BAPIO, said that the new rule would affect over 4,000 doctors,

many of whom have families in the UK and they would not be eligible to get jobs even if vacancies occur.

With the new rules coming into force from July 2006, any doctor wishing to apply for postgraduate medical training in

the UK will be required to have a work permit.

The permits will not be easy to get. To obtain a work permit an employer must show that vacancy exists which cannot be filled with a resident doctor.

In the case of overseas doctors, European Union nationals will get preference.

khandelwal · Post by **khandelwal** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:09 am

aj77 wrote:Yeah I might be wrong then What is it?

24.9 Q: What if the scheme changes?

A: As with any immigration scheme we reserve the right to adapt some of the criteria or documentation associated
with the scheme and will inform you via our websites of any such changes. All applications will be treated on the
basis of the HSMP provisions at the time that they were submitted.

24.10 Q: I have already applied successfully under HSMP. How does the revised HSMP affect me?

A: Not at all. It is important to note that once you have entered under the programme you are in a category that has
an avenue to settlement. Those who have already entered under HSMP will be allowed to stay and apply for
settlement after four years qualifying residence regardless of these revisions to HSMP

26.5 Q: How long can I stay in the UK if I enter as a skilled migrant?

A: You will initially be given 12 months stay. If you want to remain in the UK under the HSMP, you should apply for
an extension of your stay in the last month before the expiry of your permission to stay in the UK. For further
information, please see “Extension of stay in the United Kingdom” section. You will be able to amalgamate leave
in other categories that lead to settlement for example, please see “Extension of stay in the United Kingdom
section.” towards the end of that period you can apply to remain in the same capacity for a further period of up
to three years.
After four years in the UK as a highly skilled migrant you can apply for settlement. The main criteria for
settlement will be that you have spent a continuous period of four years in the UK (except for trips abroad of
three months or less, totalling less than six months in the four year period) in a category leading to settlement
and that you continue to be economically active in the UK as a highly skilled migrant
From where you got these question/answers. Can we use this document in court? Parliament resolution did not say that it should be applied to old approved HSMP holders? Any comments from legal point of view?

timefactor · Post by **timefactor** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:00 am

This is from HO's document repository, most of us have downloaded copy incase

easylife4me · Post by **easylife4me** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:06 am

Exclusive - Jobs in the UK entertainment industry will be lost to American and other overseas applicants under proposed changes to the work permit system which threaten to “open the floodgates” to artists and backstage workers from abroad, claim showbusiness unions.

The Home Office is currently considering a new immigration system which will put responsibility for recommending people entering the UK on temporary contracts into the hands of employers, removing the role Equity, Bectu and the Musicians’ Union have traditionally played in ensuring they do not take roles which can be filled locally.

It is feared the changes will make Equity’s exchange contract - which keeps the numbers of actors coming to Britain roughly equal with those travelling to the US and Australia for productions - unworkable.

Equity has written to Whitehall raising its concerns and has been granted a meeting with officials to discuss the problem. Its research and parliamentary affairs officer Matt Payton told The Stage: “Under the plans, employers will be able to identify the people they want to sponsor, and as long as the person fills in the paperwork there doesn’t appear to be a role for stakeholders such as ourselves in determining the suitability of that person coming in. It will make it impossible for bilateral arrangements to exist that provide a balance, such as our exchange agreement. We believe that opens the floodgates to a large number of American performers filing roles.

“The biggest problem is that it’ll be for employers to vouch that there will be no impact on the domestic labour market. We don’t think that is a very objective test.”

Currently, applicants coming to the UK need to demonstrate unique skills, ability or status that cannot be found in the resident labour market, or be a company that is specifically required to create a particular production. Work Permits UK assesses applications based on these criteria, in consultation with performing arts unions, in order to ensure home-grown talent is not supplanted or undercut.

Bectu assistant general secretary Martin Spence warned the proposed system would make that impossible. He added: “It also seems that very often the decision to allow someone into the UK will be made not even by a UK-based official but by the consulate where that person is based. I don’t believe the knowledge could possibly reside with them about the availability of skills in our labour market.

“This new arrangement could be very damaging to the UK entertainment industry - we could see UK-based freelance technicians being denied employment because other people are being admitted without any real checks or consultation with stakeholders such as ourselves.”

The proposals make it easier for less skilled people to come into the country to take up short-term jobs but fail to take account of the fact that many highly skilled technicians rely on contracts of just six or eight weeks, Spence said.

A Home Office spokeswoman said the department recognised the entertainment sector was concerned about the new system and that it was committed to consulting it on the detail of the regulations. A skills advisory body would be set up to advise the government where gaps existed in the industry that could not be met within the UK and this would work closely with Skillset, the sector skills council for the audiovisual industries.

She added: “The body will know if there are any gaps not being filled by UK entertainment workers. How exactly it will work with bodies such as Equity will be worked out in due course.”

khandelwal · Post by **khandelwal** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:09 pm

timefactor wrote:This is from HO's document repository, most of us have downloaded copy incase

Could you please give me the link.

timefactor · Post by **timefactor** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:04 pm

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/Skilled%20Migrant.pdf

Please look into Q. 24.9

Is this a legal case?

Hope this helps

khandelwal wrote:
timefactor wrote:This is from HO's document repository, most of us have downloaded copy incase
Could you please give me the link.

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:48 pm

a11 wrote:

1) in the case of HSMP, there was a commitment on the UK's part.
2) as for the WP holders, the case is trickier. i see two ways to pursue the case: 1) to refer to the fact that WP's are actually only issued to those people who are needed by the UK (by definition), so if something makes them really angry, it might be worth giving it a second thought; and 2) to 'merge' the HSMP and WP cases not emphasizing the distinctions between them

a11 it is effective, we need some more ideas like these to make our case further stronger

tarzan · Post by **tarzan** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:05 pm

Hello Friends,

I had already informed that shadow home secretary of conservatives Mr Damian Green MP, had agreed that the retrospective nature of these changes is unjust and conservatives will be opposing this element of the changes.

Now, shadow home secretary of Liberals Mr Nick Clegg MP, sent me a message saying in short that they find it unjust too, and they will act accordingly in parliament in order to change this.

The EDM 1912 opened by Austin Mitchell, is now signed by 2 more MP's.

Everybody involved in this fight,
Thank you and keep informing everyone, so that they inform their local MP's, party leaders and shadow home-immigration secretaries.

For those of you who think government did not promise anything, and nothing can be done by emailing, faxing people... well I was not sure if we could change either, but I believe we can at least do our best and as you see some people in parliament has conscience and common sense.

Friends, we are almost there, keep going!

Long Live Britain! God save the Queen!

tutu1005 · Post by **tutu1005** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:07 am

Really encouraging news for all of us!! Please read the following !!

Dear Ashly,

I am writing to you, to inform you that the Arabic community, actually my husband Omar Massoud, has received a promising response from Nick Clegg, the LibDems' Shadow Home Secretary.

It's certainly encouraging to know that someone is listening, that the efforts are starting to bear fruit, and that some action is being taken. But I believe it is more reason why we should intensify our efforts and "raise our voice" in the crucial coming few days - it seems like a real chance.

I quote from Clegg抯 email:

揟hank you for contacting me regarding the changes to immigration rules (House of Commons Paper 974, replaced by HC1016) including changes to the qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR).

I am concerned that this situation is unfair to those already in this country who have made plans on the reasonable assumption that the qualifying period would not change, and unnecessarily prejudices those skilled immigrants who contribute significantly to this country and its economy. We feel that the Home Office has not given sufficient notice of these changes and that if they were justified; they should apply only to those entering the country now, and not retrospectively.

To this end we have laid a motion against these changes which we hope to debate in committee before the deadline as stipulated by parliamentary procedure (we anticipate this will be in the next month).

I will write to you again when the outcome of the committee is known.

Thank you for raising this vital issue with me.

Yours sincerely?/FONT>

In addition to Clegg, we sent objection emails including links to online petitions to the following Ministers and MPs

David Davis, Shadow home Secretary, Conservatives
Damian Green, Shadow Immigration Minister, Conservatives
Lynne Featherstone, Spokesperson for Home Affairs and London, Liberal Democrats
Mark Hunter, Spokesperson for Home Affairs, Liberal Democrats

A copy of an email to a Shadow Minister is included at the end of this email and here is a link set up by the Turkish community, where one enters name and address, presses a button, and an email to his/her MP is generated and sent automatically.

http://btcd.turkish-network.org/c.asp?sid=72515D4350

It is time to unite all our efforts to inform anyone harmed by the application of the new rules; collect signatures for our petitions; write to Shadow Ministers; write to our MPs; and finally write to the Government (Charles Clarke in particular).

All the best,
Inas Ismail

tarzan · Post by **tarzan** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:37 pm

Hi,
we went to speak with Gareth Thomas MP for harrow west, he is also
Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for International Development .
our arguments were based on:
-1. nobody knew about these changes.

-2. when we heard about the plans nobody assumed that it will have an
adverse effect like this to be applied retrospectively

-3. in home office replies to many queries, they also conradict and
accept as:
a- there is no retrospective element ...
b- there is retrospective element but the effects are assumed to be
insignificant
c- UK never passes retrospective rules, it is only applicable from the
date it is valid (well it is valid to the existing ones, not the ones
to come from that date...)

-4. everybody with common sense, including the leaders and shadow
ministers of liberals and conservatives accept that the retrospective
element is unjust and should be corrected.

-5. we are not against points based system, we ARE the ones that would
support most this system, as long as we are informed about the plans
and our contributions are sought genuinely.

-6. we have been very careful in the way to approach and explain
ourselves, we do not want bad publicity to annoy the government and
people who have been working on this, we just want a fine tune, a
correction before it becomes too late.

-7. there are many groups working in coordination thousands of emails,
petitions are being collected.

Mr Thomas strongly suggested that:
1- everyone should write to their local MP's, ALSO mentioning their
support for the changes introducing Points based system overall, but "the retrospective element to be abolished"

2- as specific reasons why is this cousing us trouble, we should
mention the current and possible hardships that each one would have if
the changes are applied, such as:

*it gets almost impossible to get a mortgage without ILR, lenders wont
offer the same rates.
*we can not study further in universities with home student rates, we
will still need to pay foreign student fees.

we need to find much more cases as above and write a new letter
including these.
I expect your feedback.

morerightsformigrants · Post by **morerightsformigrants** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:24 am

i got this from bbc news interesting:

The British Medical Association, the professional association for doctors, accused the government of changing the rules without any regard for welfare. It said at least 9,000 doctors in short-term junior and senior house officer grades would be affected.

DOCTORS FURIOUS

I came as part of a significant investment in my career and for the opportunity to learn within the British system - If I return home now this investment will have been for nothing

Dr Sumit Reisinghaney

'We feel let down by NHS'

"There is definitely a need for a new system where the number of doctors coming to the country is based on the needs of the NHS, but what the government is doing is unfair on the doctors who are already here," said Dr Jo Hilborne, chairman of the BMA's Junior Doctors Committee.

But a spokesman for the Home Office, responsible for immigration rules, said transitional arrangements drawn up with the Department of Health would apply to some of those affected. Junior doctors and dentists in current training posts would be allowed to complete those placements.

Overseas doctors who had attended British medical schools would not be subject to work permit restrictions for their final two years.

judge by yourself...... they are not ony doing the restropectiveness to us but they are spreading it now... but at least they have a better transitional arrangements than us...... so my question is WHAT'S NEXT..?

nadja · Post by **nadja** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:20 pm

Hi, just wanted to let you know that I wrote to my MP (Don Foster, Bath) and he has signed the EDM.

tutu1005 · Post by **tutu1005** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:26 pm

dear guys, hope it is not too late to let you know this. Although it is mainly for chinese community but you are highly welcome to join this.

Hi, hope you guys are getting good feed back from MP, mine is Frank Dobson (Labour) , he hasn't get back yet.

just a quick one:

is anyone going to Christine's meeting on Thursday 27th of April?

Venue: Soho Outreach Centre
166A Shaftesbury Avenue, London, WC2H 8JB

Time: 7pm-9.30pm

MAP:

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

who are interested in protest against changes of 4-5

conservatives and liberals on our side

our meeting with Gareth Thomas MP (harrow west)