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Directive/2004/38/EC

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

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acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Post by acme4242 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:41 pm

at least its worth a try...
I'll let you know if they ever reply
Email to timatic.indp@iata.org wrote: Dear Timatic,

I wish to query the accuracy of the Timatic entry for visa
requirements for the spouse and family members of EU Citizens,
who accompany or join their EU family member in the EU.

It seems the Current Timatic data does not comply with the EU
Directives and the Schengen Border Guard Handbook.

If such EU family members do not have the required visa,
the EU or Schengen Border Guard must issue it at the border.
or let them proceed, if they have their marriage cert or other
proof of family-hood.

The current entry in Timatic does not mention this, resulting
in wrongful refused boarding based on Timatic data.
Can you please update Timatic to comply with the EU Directives and
Schengen Border Guard Handbook.

Schengen Border Guard Handbook
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

EU Directive 2004/38/EC
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

==========================


According to the Schengen Border Guard Handbook
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

3. Special rules for checks on certain categories of persons
3.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement
3.1.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement are authorised to cross the border
of a Member State on the basis of the following documents, as a general rule:
– EU, EEA, CH citizens: identity card or passport;
– members of the family of EU, EEA, CH citizens who are nationals of a third country:
passport. They may also be required to have an entry visa, if they are nationals of a third
country subject to the visa obligation, unless they are in possession of a valid residence
permit or card, issued by a Member State (or by EEA countries or CH).

3.1.2 However, if a person enjoying the Community right of free movement does not have the
necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned must, before turning him/her back, give such person every reasonable
opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to him/her within a
reasonable period of time or corroborate or prove by other means that he/she is covered by
the right of free movement.


EU Directive 2004/38/EC says the following
==========================
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

Article 5
Right of entry

4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not
have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain
the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to
corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and
residence.
==========================

MelC
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: North Africa/EU/UK

Post by MelC » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:33 pm

Do you think they might like another "prod"?

as I said once before ~ sometimes one voice is not enough?

I am happy to email them, might ask if they extend thier service to ferry companies as no-one I have contacted so far seems to know where they get their info from!!
MelC

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Post by acme4242 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:53 pm

MelC wrote:Do you think they might like another "prod"?

as I said once before ~ sometimes one voice is not enough?

I am happy to email them, might ask if they extend thier service to ferry companies as no-one I have contacted so far seems to know where they get their info from!!
God knows, I am not holding my breath waiting for them to reply.
They also have a online query system, but it crashed when I pressed submit

http://www.timaticweb.com/

MelC
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: North Africa/EU/UK

Post by MelC » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:26 pm

God knows, I am not holding my breath waiting for them to reply.
They also have a online query system, but it crashed when I pressed submit

http://www.timaticweb.com/[/quote]

LOL,

I have emailed them and am going to see if their online thing says NO nd crashes!
MelC

MelC
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: North Africa/EU/UK

Post by MelC » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:31 pm

it didn't crash!!!

it took the query!!!

and what really annoyed me is that the address is NETHERLANDS!!!!!

there is no excuse at all for this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MelC

DFDS.
Member
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: MIDLANDS.
Contact:

Post by DFDS. » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:10 pm

darkviews wrote:Thanks everyone, i just have a big issue here:

Obie said: 3. Article 5 (4) does not mean your spouse is entitled to travel without a visa.

But the fact that we travel at the end, isn't proof enough? As i mentioned before we travel to Italy a month before with British Airways, and didn't have any issue with same documents neither with airline nor with Italian officials. Also in this case Thomascook and Protégées officials did accept our documents as part this directive. So far two airlines and two different EU officials have accept her without visa, with ILR, our marage certificate as she was traveling with me.

So i think esayjet issue was to understand IATA's guideline which they refereed to (what they said).

They don't have any training and only refer to IATA when it comes to question mark, and the problem is that, they don't even understand it. This is another example of it:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel ... 897061.ece
[/quote]

Darkviews haven't you had of people travelling on fakes or on someone else's Docs?

Sure it does ocur, and it can happen for acouple of times if the officials don't take much time to scrutinise those Docs. Reasons am saying this, there is no way you could have travelled twice with in EU on just the ILR and the marriage certificate. Fine it did happen, but that might have been just a one off!
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Post by acme4242 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:57 pm

MelC got something...
This is not what I raised, my issue was that the IATA data does
not comply with EU directive 2004/38/EC and the Schengen Border
Guard handbook.

But still, its shows decency and respect from their side to reply.

Timitic IATA wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TIM Editing (INDP) <timediting@iata.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:02 PM
Subject: [Z:2828] Timatic data for EU family members.


Dear



Many thanks for your mail.

We are currently investigating this matter, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland.

Kind regards,

Database Publisher
IATA Netherlands Data Publications
Tel +31 (0)20 403 7951
Fax +31 (0)20 403 7985
timediting.indp@iata.org

IATA Netherlands Data Publications
Frankfurtstraat 2-8, 1175 RH Lijnden
P.O. Box 49, 1170 AA Badhoevedorp
The Netherlands
www.iata.org


For problem reporting, please contact SITA helpdesk: GSC.MONTREAL@SITA.AERO tel: +1 514 2825621

MelC
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: North Africa/EU/UK

Post by MelC » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:24 pm

acme4242 wrote:MelC got something...
This is not what I raised, my issue was that the IATA data does
not comply with EU directive 2004/38/EC and the Schengen Border
Guard handbook.

But still, its shows decency and respect from their side to reply.

Timitic IATA wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TIM Editing (INDP) <timediting@iata.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:02 PM
Subject: [Z:2828] Timatic data for EU family members.


Dear



Many thanks for your mail.

We are currently investigating this matter, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland.

Kind regards,

Database Publisher
IATA Netherlands Data Publications
Tel +31 (0)20 403 7951
Fax +31 (0)20 403 7985
timediting.indp@iata.org

IATA Netherlands Data Publications
Frankfurtstraat 2-8, 1175 RH Lijnden
P.O. Box 49, 1170 AA Badhoevedorp
The Netherlands
www.iata.org


For problem reporting, please contact SITA helpdesk: GSC.MONTREAL@SITA.AERO tel: +1 514 2825621
I just came to the boards to ask if you had ~ lol my reply is dated an hour previously? are they guys initials PM on your reply?

i got ~
Dear ,

Many thanks for your mail.

Please note that the information published is specifically designed for air travel, as some of the information, such as visa on arrival, only applies at airports and not at seaports.

With regard to the matter you have raised regarding family members, we are currently investigating this, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland.

pretty much the same answer, although I did ask about sea ports ~ they must use some system at sea ports surely? I think they might use the same?

I have replied to the guy, and pointed out the basics of the directive for entry, and the probs with Schengen visas (in my case) etc
i also replied ot him from my business address which is .eu NOT .com lol

i also asked if he would like a copy of the directive, the guide and the SBGH, as it would help them lol

At least WE BOTH got the courtesy of a reply, and details of where they are at with it, and as I raised my own situation in the Query, it was responeded to personally, so even though its not a great help to me, I truly respect the reply. ~ I have emails outstanding from weeks ago to some agencies, i have the read receipts so thats even more annoying, but 2 can be annoying, i resend the same email twice a day every day now, it either fills up their inbox or someone will get fed up of reading it and ANSWER ME!!!!!

I think i am going to pick on MEP's now, one has been good in that he replied and gave me another MEP's addie, but they did not reply, maybe a bit of naming and shaming is called for, and the commission vice pres ~ her team take 3 months to reply and tell you nothing, im into month 2 of waiting for the next reply from them!!

3 months waiting is just not on ~ whats happeneing about this ombudsman specifically for the directve?
MelC

MelC
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm
Location: North Africa/EU/UK

GETTING SOMEWHERE AT LAST!!!!!!

Post by MelC » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:53 pm

I Have, (10 MINUTES AGO) received an email from the ferry company ~

I emailed them and they initiallys aid hubby needed to book return ~ i emailed back and told htem i was not happy and had passed them over to SOLVIT

THEN I emailed again, with an attachment that i put together from the directive/schengen border code/border handbook etc ONLY the points relating to ENTRY as thats the issue, I gave them the links to the EUropa website etc so they could check for themselves!

that was 10 days ago, here is the EXACT wording of the email I got 10 mins ago ~

Good afternoon from Grandi Navi Veloci

Dear Madam,

following you latest email we asked for further information to Italian Police that agree with your opinion.

Only in this case the passenger can enter in Italy with one way ticket.

Please accept our guess of good stay with our Company and thanks for choosing us.

Best Regards



I hpe that this helps anyone faced with a similar dilemma!
MelC

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