Major immigration system reforms on the cards

[hoping_for_HSMP]

@all...

This is extremely interesting... Theresa May is now just trying to show that they are doing something to reduce net immigration in a ridiculous fashion...

Here are my thoughts of what the govt will get away with...

Tier-1... They may not be able to do much about those already in the country in light of the various JRs that have already been given... Please remember we signed on a declaration in the HSMP application form to make UK our permanent home and if this is not legitimate expectation of settlement then I do not know what is... For new applicants they may either finish Tier-1 General or raise the bar...

Tier-2... The link between settlemt and visa will be finished... And this will be probably be applied retrospectively... Remember when they changed settlement from 4 years to 5 years??? HSMP was covered under JR... Work permits were not... And they can argue that Tier-2 should only come here to work and hence have no legitimate expectation of settlement...

Tier-4... Students may not be able to enter the UK for lower than degree level courses... and no PSW... And their time will not count towards settlement...

But having said that all of these measures will be temporary... They want to act tough... By the end of parliament they will have the country's immigration in a mess that they would have to revert back in stages... It's just a tough time for us here... Maybe we are the unlucky ones... Or the last of the lucky ones... Only time will tell...

By the way I am here on a Tier-1 general visa on the basis of HSMP approval letter...

A

[Wright]

It seems this government is intending to adopt all migrationwatch ideas. The main one being breaking the link between temporary status and settlement.

I guess it will make student/high skilled migrants will think twice before coming to Uk. If they go somewhere else where that link is still in existence.

[avjones]

Tier-1... They may not be able to do much about those already in the country in light of the various JRs that have already been given... Please remember we signed on a declaration in the HSMP application form to make UK our permanent home and if this is not legitimate expectation of settlement then I do not know what is... For new applicants they may either finish Tier-1 General or raise the bar...

You might well be right, in that any new rules could only apply to new applicants when they come to extend in the future. But the HSMP JR turned on the particular representations made to people who applied for that visa, so it can't be automatically assumed to apply to all current visa holders.

[wunder]

I guess it will make student/high skilled migrants will think twice before coming to Uk.

I don't think it will affect genuine students - the ones who come here to actually study.

[psdesai]

I guess it will make student/high skilled migrants will think twice before coming to Uk.

I don't think it will affect genuine students - the ones who come here to actually study.

So do you mean that students who has expections of setteling in UK after study (i.e. come to UK to "actually" study and not do low skilled job) esp. after they have spent fortune to pay the international fees are not genuine?

[cmc_686]

I can't understand if T1 and T2 holders were not allowed to settle down here, then how do they attract the highly-skilled workers or scientist? What sort of visa will those people be issued to enter the UK? That sounds quite confusing to me.

[PaulT]

What effect do you think this will have on unmarried partner visa's?

My partner is currently in the UK on a FLR(M) visa, which is due to run out in Oct 2012.

[littlerice]

On UKBA's website, there is a page listing all the kinds of visa that could eventually lead to PR, it did say the number of years needed before applying for PR may subject to change (possible but highly unlikely because of the restriction from European directive), but the expectation those that already got these visas that you eventually WILL get your PR is legitimate I think.


Any expert please comment if I am right about this?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/settl ... tiontypes/

[littlerice]

Found something else as well, on the MAC consultation paper, on page 7 section 2.20, it defines only PSW and ICT as "temporary migration", and I think that's what Theresa May meant when she said "temporary work should not lead to permanent settlement.

That means those already holding Tier1 & 2 are safe, right?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ual-limit/

Comments welcome.

[noor1034]

Found something else as well, on the MAC consultation paper, on page 7 section 2.20, it defines only PSW and ICT as "temporary migration", and I think that's what Theresa May meant when she said "temporary work should not lead to permanent settlement.

That means those already holding Tier1 & 2 are safe, right?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ual-limit/

Comments welcome.

But PSW and ICT categories do not lead to settlement so there is nothing to break the link (unless if one's switch to Tier 1 general or Tier 2)...

No sure if there is any way we can ask Home Office to elaborate what is meant by 'temporary work' in Theresa May speech.

[littlerice]

But PSW and ICT categories do not lead to settlement so there is nothing to break the link

If you ask me, I'd say that's the whole point. She said all this in a speech, it's all about sound-bite, do you think the British public would understand all this details? No they don't, all they need to hear is politician promising them something, which is actually already happening, as we (the lowly immigrants) would all know, but when it comes down to substance, I doubt she would dare to challenge European directive.

[GSOtodd]

I don't think they'll scrap ILR. It will make it harder to achieve though. I think they'll be a tough points system at the end of the 5 (or if they decide to up the years to qualify)

Either that or they can make Tier 2 extensions subject to advertising rules, like they did in the 80s and 90s.

Who would want to come here if they knew they couldnt settle.

[avjones]

Who would want to come here if they knew they couldnt settle.

I don't quite get that. Of course, it's important for some people. But others want to work in another country, live there, etc, for a while, not forever.

[The Station Agent]

I wouldn't be surprised if they scrapped the PBS. After all Tier 4 is still proving troublesome (they say it is still being abused, even though they've been "thoroughly" vetting all universities and colleges for about 2 years now). Tier 2 likewise - basically this fudge where sponsors are not trusted to allocate their CoS as they see fit is worse than the old work permit system. Tier 1 may be restricted to not just highly qualified but, in a nutshell, the wealthy. Tier 3 isn't active and possibly never will be.

UKBA are employing far more "visiting officers" than ever before - I wouldn't be surprised if they now have more staff than before the work permit scheme was abolished.

So where are the benefits of PBS? It's not simple. It's not the 1-stop shop it was sold as. It's probably costing the country more money.

On these issues I believe the new government might just say "let's go back to what we had" and ditch the PBS, blaming it on Labour.

Most immigration rule changes that the goverment has made over the last 10 years have been poorly conceived and were challenged in the courts, often successfully. They need to consider all outcomes and all situations now - not just a few.

[avjones]

On UKBA's website, there is a page listing all the kinds of visa that could eventually lead to PR, it did say the number of years needed before applying for PR may subject to change (possible but highly unlikely because of the restriction from European directive), but the expectation those that already got these visas that you eventually WILL get your PR is legitimate I think.


Any expert please comment if I am right about this?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/settl ... tiontypes/

PR is irrelevant, here. PR relates to EU / EEA applications, nothing to do with students, tier 1, etc

[saayinla]

Who would want to come here if they knew they couldnt settle.

I don't quite get that. Of course, it's important for some people. But others want to work in another country, live there, etc, for a while, not forever.

Maybe look at it this way:

I came to the UK as a student and completed a Master Degree and decided to stay as I got a very good Job, at the same Time I had a wife and kid back in my own country, I did not really have the need for a car Until I decided for my wife and kid to join me in the UK. Now I have twins and I have to get a bigger accomodation and a big car to accomodate us , I pay insurance etc and a considerable amount of tax as well.

I might not have bothered to bring my family here if I know we cannot settle here, they might come on a visiting basis and continue their normal lives in my home country... in which case I might just rent a room or share with friends knowing fully well that I am temporarily resident here. I have at least 5 friends who have uprooted their families from their home countries to come to the UK only because of the proscpect of settle ment, a particular relatice even brought huge amount of cash into the Uk to make a 50% deposit on a mortgage, I knew clearly well in his case that he had a good job where he was coming from.

My point is most of the people I know came here mainly because of the prospect of settlement, not that they wil not come if settlement is not involved but a considerable amount of their earnings will not benefit the UK economy.

I also happen to know some people in a visa category that does not entitle them to settle and they did not bother to bring their families into the uk and some of them travel back to their Home country 3-4 times a year and they live in single rooms with the basic amenities knowing fully well that their home is where their wife and kids are......even though they can afford to but they ll rather use money they are making in the uk for making life better in their home countries...

[avjones]

My point is most of the people I know came here mainly because of the prospect of settlement, not that they wil not come if settlement is not involved but a considerable amount of their earnings will not benefit the UK economy.

I don't think it's always the case. I completely understand your reasoning, of course.

I worked in Poland for a year, my best friend worked in the Czech Republic for a year, my other half worked in India for 9 months, OH's best mate worked in Japan for 2 years, my younger brother's currently in Korea for 18 months, working.

None of us ever intended to settle. It was purely a chance to live in and experience a different culture.

[letmec2006]

My point is most of the people I know came here mainly because of the prospect of settlement, not that they wil not come if settlement is not involved but a considerable amount of their earnings will not benefit the UK economy.

I don't think it's always the case. I completely understand your reasoning, of course.

I worked in Poland for a year, my best friend worked in the Czech Republic for a year, my other half worked in India for 9 months, OH's best mate worked in Japan for 2 years, my younger brother's currently in Korea for 18 months, working.
None of us ever intended to settle. It was purely a chance to live in and experience a different culture.

Everyone has a home, it is also nice to get an experience in a different country and culture for year or so. For a short work experience people dont make plans to move their family or want to settle down in a place where they know that their work is only for short term.
However, with Teir1 and 2 people where given 2 years and 3 years visa along with their dependants and given an oppurtunity to settle down in the country, so a person plans to come here work and make UK as their home eventually.
Hence the oppurtunity of settlement should be given or not given at the entry level, so that person makes their plan accordingly

[littlerice]

On UKBA's website, there is a page listing all the kinds of visa that could eventually lead to PR, it did say the number of years needed before applying for PR may subject to change (possible but highly unlikely because of the restriction from European directive), but the expectation those that already got these visas that you eventually WILL get your PR is legitimate I think.


Any expert please comment if I am right about this?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/settl ... tiontypes/

PR is irrelevant, here. PR relates to EU / EEA applications, nothing to do with students, tier 1, etc

Sorry, by PR I meant ILR

[xleft]

I don't think they will dare touch the route of 10 years legal stay leading to ILR because it is part of wider Human Rights EU law signed by UK many years ago. To cancel it will require act of Parliament I believe. It will also initiate a wave of court cases on the basis of human rights against the government.

So I think this is highly "political" speech which will not affect a lot of things fundamentally.

What they can do:

1) Scrap Post study route or reduce it to 1 year instead of the current 2

2) Scrap short-term student visas. No more short courses for people outside EU. Only degree level courses.

3) Increase tuition fees and maintenance funds requirement for students

4) Gradually increase number number of years required for ILR for Highly Skilled Migrants without affecting those already in UK. And also increase points required to get it in the first place

They will probably make it 7 instead of 5 years for those applying for Higly Skilled visas, the same as Labour wanted with their Path to Citizenship only in different package. They won't touch 10 year legal and 14 years illegal stay.

Maybe they will also make students apply for new student visa from outside the UK when they finish their course. But I think it must be quite difficult to implement and will meet serious resistance from universities.

If anyone think they can try to abolish 10 years legal stay, please let me know you thoughts. But I think this is impossible for the reasons I said before. Also it only used by 1-2% of those who settle, so it's not worth it. However I am myself going to use this route soon, so it's quite important for me, hence these thoughts.

Replies and groundless speculations are welcome

[avjones]

I don't think they will dare touch the route of 10 years legal stay leading to ILR because it is part of wider Human Rights EU law signed by UK many years ago.

what law is that?

[xleft]

I don't think they will dare touch the route of 10 years legal stay leading to ILR because it is part of wider Human Rights EU law signed by UK many years ago.

what law is that?

I am not solicitor. But I heard it many times from solicitors. I was told about it in the head office of Workpermit.com for example. They give ILR after 10 years not because they are kind but because they can't refuse unless UK goes out of EU or unsigns from this law but to do it, it needs to be approved by the parliament and it won't be approved because it concerns only about 1% of the applicants and I don't think any party would like to look like it against basic human rights shared by all EU member states.

[littlerice]

I won't be surprised if they scrap PSW all together, after all, it's only introduced 5-6 years ago "to attract foreign students", now that they don't want to attract anybody anymore, scrapping it would be only reasonable.

My solicitor said once that the 5-year-rule for Tier 1 & 2 won't be changed at all, because it's already the limit in Europe, adding more years on it would only tell everyone in the world that no more foreigner's welcomed in UK.

[avjones]

the European Convention on Human Rights isn't part of the EU, and isn't closely related to EU law, either.

[xleft]

the European Convention on Human Rights isn't part of the EU, and isn't closely related to EU law, either.

Ok, maybe I was not very certain in my description but you confirm my idea in general. So you say it's European Convention on Human Rights. Ok, I am not solicitor but for me it sounds quite serious and I was told by other solicitors it's serious.

So tell us your professional opinion please. Do you think it's possible that UK will go out from European Convention on Human Rights? I think all EU states signed it. So because of 1% of reduction of immigrants, who are not the worst because they lived here legally for 10 years with no recourse to public funds, they will try to do it? I don't think so. But I would be very glad to see other opinions. Especially professionals. If you're solicitor, it would be great to hear yours.