Can I count two saparate unmarried relationships for EE4?

[alejandrouk]

Hi,

Back in 2002 I start living with my previous EEA unmarried partner we lived together for 4 years then after moving apart I stated to live with my current EEA unmarried partner we have been together for 4 years too (so far).

I would like to know if anyone knows if it will be possible to add the two relationships towards my application for EEA4 or even if possible for Naturalisation??

Extra information:
Both of my partners countries became part EEA in May 2004 and I have never applied for a Residence Card, but I can show both of my partners documents of exercising rights (work) and several documents (bills, contracts, etc) for all the time that we have been living together.

[John]

I don't think that can work. Part of the EU Directive reads :-

Article 16
General rule for Union citizens and their family members
1. Union citizens who have resided legally for a continuous period of five years in the host Member State shall have the right of permanent residence there. This right shall not be subject to the conditions provided for in Chapter III.
2. Paragraph 1 shall apply also to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and have legally resided with the Union citizen in the host Member State for a continuous period of five years.

You will see I have emboldened one word, and I think it is that one word that defeats you. If that word was "a" rather than "the" it would be so different.

[alejandrouk]

Thanks John,

A law firm that I have contacted said that they believe is possible to proceed with my case.
As usual they want over a hundred pounds for an initial consultation and about a thousand for taking on the case.

Do you think its worthed to pay their fees?, I mean based on the previous comment by John on article 16 or, do they just want to play around with my money?

I would like to hear any thoughts on this.

[John]

You have not named the firm .... and don't! ..... but I suspect they have not yet really investigated the matter .... and you will be paying for those investigations!

Based just upon your current relationship, when is your 5 years up? Sometime in 2011? If it really worth risking a lot of money just to possibly advance that date by a few months?

[alejandrouk]

Thank you for your reply,

In September 16th is 5 years that we have been living together.
I am starting Postgraduate studies in October 2011 and only if I obtain PR or BC before 1st of September '11 I will be able to get my fee status as "home" and not "international", which could save me 12,000 pounds on student fees. Hence the rush. I don't want to take big risks as I need to save as much money as possible in case that I have to pay the international fees.

I have been looking on the web for the law firm and so far I have not found any negative comments online, however after reading your reference to article 16 I think it might be hard to get around it, but I don't know if believe that law firms could find the way, I want to believe but when it comes down to money faith is not enough.

[John]

I have been looking on the web for the law firm and so far I have not found any negative comments online

Not surprising really, I don't think this is very common.

But the question I ask myself, after reading your comment quoted above ..... have you found any/many positive comments online?

[alejandrouk]

Yes, so far they are quoted in Legal 500 as a good firm and other mentioned on some immigration and human rights websites.

I just got a reply from them as I sent them an email asking them for some form of guarantee (ie. show prove of similar cases, no-win/no-fee contract)

They have replied:

If you would like us to advise you on the full circumstances of your case and whether such an application is possible you will need to attend our offices for a consultation.

There are no guarantees that we can offer and we also do not offer a no win no fee services.

In the past I have already taken such "consultations" with other immigration adviser for half the price and I ended up paying for a repetition of what I have already been told online at immigration forums and by reading the immigration law for free. Leaving with the feeling that I have been robed. I don't want to pass through that again.

[ys704]

Hi just saw your post.

I just got refusal last week for EEA4, reason being I have not been married to my EEA husband for 5 years (we married 3.5 year now). However we have been residing together in UK for more than 5 years.

So my question is really do you have to be married for 5 years or just live together for 5 years??

[John]

What you have to be is ... exercising Treaty Rights for at least 5 years. But that is debatable, in your circumstances. You either have to let the matter go, for another 1.5 years, or appeal, but if you do appeal don't expect UKBA not to fight the case.

[ys704]

we both have been living together and working in UK for more than 5 years, what is to debate? I assume working is exercrisng treaty rights.

[86ti]

It is not clear if you have been a family member for a continuous period of five years as I tried to tell you in your other thread.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

In September 16th is 5 years that we have been living together.
I am starting Postgraduate studies in October 2011 and only if I obtain PR or BC before 1st of September '11 I will be able to get my fee status as "home" and not "international", which could save me 12,000 pounds on student fees. Hence the rush. I don't want to take big risks as I need to save as much money as possible in case that I have to pay the international fees.

I suspect this is incorrect, and is certainly illegal if it is correct.

When you have a RC, you are considered exactly the same as if you were a British citizen for university fees. I believe, when I last looked, you had to be resident in the UK for the previous 3 years to get "home" fees.

I would suggest you immediately apply for a RC!

Also see http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/09 ... ber-state/ Since your partner is non-UK, this applies to your partner and to you.

[alejandrouk]

Thanks for your reply,

I believe, when I last looked, you had to be resident in the UK for the previous 3 years to get "home" fees.

Yes that is correct,I cover all the relevant criteria except for I contacted the Universities and also UKCISA. Only one University agreed that I should be liable for home fees, however UKCISA and another 4 Universities said that even though I am covered by the immigration laws I am not covered by their criteria to obtain the Home fees status as I am unmarried.

They seem to be quite firm on their stance, that is why I am now trying to obtain PR before 1st of Sep 2011, or else, if anyone here can suggest what to do next to challenge the University and UKCISA position it will be interesting to know just in case it gets to that point.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Yes that is correct,I cover all the relevant criteria except for I contacted the Universities and also UKCISA. Only one University agreed that I should be liable for home fees, however UKCISA and another 4 Universities said that even though I am covered by the immigration laws I am not covered by their criteria to obtain the Home fees status as I am unmarried.

They seem to be quite firm on their stance, that is why I am now trying to obtain PR before 1st of Sep 2011, or else, if anyone here can suggest what to do next to challenge the University and UKCISA position it will be interesting to know just in case it gets to that point.

It does not matter if they are firm on their stance. Their stance, if it is not legal, will quickly change.

It does not look like you are planning to apply for a RC, if I read it correctly. I personally think that is a mistake, and I think it will mean you will have to pay the "foreign fees".

I think you should:
(1) immediately apply for a RC
(2) immediately contact solvit for their help in sorting out the schools. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/
(3) next year, if you believe you qualify and if you still care about it, apply for PRC

[alejandrouk]

Thanks, I was thinking to apply directly for PR now. I have extensive evidence on living with my current EEA partner only since Sep 2006, and I was planing to use my phone records as evidence to cover from Nov 2005 hoping that they will be flexible at UKBA.

After receiving the replies from the Universities and talking the the people at UKCISA I though that getting the PR will be the only way that I could be classed as home student.

But your words are inspiring me to follow the safest path: applying for RC now as the PR might be denied and then persist with the Universities that unmarried partners are also liable for home fees.

I will contact AIRE on Monday and hope that they can clarify things.

I have also just sent and email to SOLVIT, explaining the situation and requesting that if UKCISA (and by its advice the rest of the UK Universities) are misinterpreting the EU law then they should change their box 7 (http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_s ... i.php#box7) to include Unmarried partners in a durable relationship.

They said a reply will be sent in a week.

So
Step 1 (apply for RC) will be sent on Monday.
Step 2 (contact SOLVIT) has been just completed.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have also just sent and email to SOLVIT, explaining the situation and requesting that if UKCISA (and by its advice the rest of the UK Universities) are misinterpreting the EU law then they should change their box 7 ( http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_s ... i.php#box7 ) to include Unmarried partners in a durable relationship.

Note that ANYONE with a "Residence Card" for a "family member of an EEA citizen" has the same rules as an EEA citizen or a UK citizen. It is illegal for them to have different fees.

If I were you I would not call myself "the unmarried partner of an EU citizen". I would call myself a "family member of an EU citizen resident in the UK". That is what you are. And as soon as you get your Residence Card you will have proof of that.

It does not matter how you get your Residence Card. Even if you are the sister of the mother of the non-EU partner of the EU citizen. That person too can have the "home" fees if they meet the residence requirements that UK citizens have to meet.

[avjones]

Thanks, I was thinking to apply directly for PR now. I have extensive evidence on living with my current EEA partner only since Sep 2006, and I was planing to use my phone records as evidence to cover from Nov 2005 hoping that they will be flexible at UKBA.

Worth a try - the UKBA is not known for being fleixble, though.

[alejandrouk]

Thanks for pointing that out.

The choice of words do make a complete difference when presenting a legal situation, I tend to use the term family member for most situations too. However, UKCISA has been using their own terms to indicate which family members are "relevant" and explicitly leaving out siblings, non-dependent grand/parents and unmarried partners.

http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_s ... i.php#box7

When I will be contacted by SOLVIT and on Monday when I contact AIRE I will mention that UKCISA criteria defined in Box 7 should then read "family members" and not "relevant family members".

[alejandrouk]

Solvit replied in just 5 days. They confirmed what Directive/2004/38/EC said. They also pointed out that English courts tent to apply a restrictive application of the EC rules, and advised me to seek the help through a law society to make sure I am given equal treatment on the student fees.

I tried to contact AIRE through the citizens advice borough but they turn me down as they insisted that I should first exhaust all possibilities of negotiation with the Universities first.

I guess then I should wait until I receive the RC (hopefully in 6 months) to continue with my negotiations with the University as at the moment I only have my expired FP and soon the CoA which I guess it might not be of sufficient leverage for my case.