Urgent help for applying unlimited leave to remain

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:17 pm

I agree the whole tax credits thing has been a fiasco but that's an aside in my opinion. Fact is I wouldn't expect to given money if I went to a foriegn country, and if I was I'd analyse it scrupilously!

I fact as a (former) single father I didn't even know about tax credits until just before they changed from the old WFTC, Lord knows how I managed.

Steve

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:26 pm

I agree the whole tax credits thing has been a fiasco but that's an aside in my opinion. Fact is I wouldn't expect to given money if I went to a foreign country, and if I was I'd analyse it scrupulously!

Would you expect to qualify for free health care if you went to another country? Probably not, but people coming to the UK on employment visas qualify as soon as they get here.

So against that sort of background, if a Government Department .... at the time heavily advertising on TV to get people to claim Tax Credits .... agrees to pay money to someone .... it is hardly the fault of the person getting the money ... especially if they are new to the country.

The fact is that a simple subroutine in the Tax Credits computer system .... if anyone answers "Yes" to the Immigration Control question .... would have stopped so many problems and saved the Government a considerable amount of money. Any claim where that question was answered "Yes" should have been put aside for closer scrutiny by a human.

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:27 pm

probably I shall have my financial advisor to look after this, if i can afford it..

Or I will have my daughter become one when she grow up because there is this big demand in the market

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:30 pm

FAO JOHN

Seems you have knowledge on the impact of nationlity on this kind of issue. So could you kindly tell me that? I am chinese, and my husband, and my child.

Thanks.
Ping

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:04 pm

Ping, with you all being Chinese, no there should not be a claim for Tax Credits ..... until either you or your wife, or both, have ILR. After that it will be totally OK to claim ... given that ILR visas have a complete lack of conditions stated on them ... and certainly no "No recourse to Public Funds" condition.

Indeed when ILR is granted, make sure that Child Benefit is claimed as well.

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:29 pm

thanks John. Does Chinese alone have this implication or is generally to some other countries?

Going back to Mid 2003, is there a question of 'subject to immigration control' on the tax credit claim form? I asked this because one of my information source said this only appeared after 2004 or so. I filled the form in 2003.

Ironically, after I am grainted this ILR I wont be able to receive this benefit as my household income will be over the threshold.

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:05 pm

Does Chinese alone have this implication or is generally to some other countries?

It is generally some other countries! I assure you that Chinese Citizens are not being singled out.

Why is nationality ever relevant? For example, if you and your wife were Turkish then even though you might be still be subject to immigration control, you would legally be entitled to claim Tax Credits. The reason is that the UK and Turkey have signed a reciprocal Social Security agreement giving additional rights to citizens resident in the other country.

But the great majority of non-EEA countries are not covered in that way.

The income knocking out a claim to Tax Credits? OK, but Child Benefit will still be claimable, whatever the income, but must not be claimed until the claimant has ILR!

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:10 pm

Thanks John. I am addictive to this forum a bit now.

Can you offer some clue on the part highlighted in blue font? that is:

[quote]Going back to Mid 2003, is there a question of 'subject to immigration control' on the tax credit claim form? I asked this because one of my information source said this only appeared after 2004 or so. I filled the form in 2003.[/quote]

Or someone else can shed a light on this?

Thanks
Ping

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:06 pm

Ping, good point. I have just looked at the 2003 version of the application form.

There is no question asking specifically about Immigration Status. Instead there is a question ... 1.8 ... which asks :-

If you are a United Kingdom national, put "X" in the box.

-: and presumably you did not put a "X" in the box.

In the accompanying Guidance Notes there is help about Q1.8, but with hindsight it is dreadfully worded. It is too long to quote here. I shall scan it later and then post it.

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:12 pm

If it was phrased like that, I will definitely not cross it. as least if I read it carefully.

That is a relief to me. Thank you John.

Post by **John** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:31 pm

I have scanned part of the 2003 version of the Tax Credits application form and indeed the relevant part of the accompanying guide.

The part of the form reads :-

The relevant part of the Guide says :-

In view of the wording of the Guide I would strongly maintain that it is misleading to say the least if only because of what it omits. That is, it neglects totally to say who is not entitled to claim Tax Credits.

Simply how would a claimant know, from reading that Guide that they are not entitled to make a claim? Simply, they would not know that. The Tax Credits (Immigration) Regulations 2003 are complicated enough for British-based Tax Consultants to work through, let alone a newly-arrived immigrant being expected to do that.

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:11 pm

You did make good point John.

I called HMRC a while ago and asked the advisor how the Credit tax application form changed. She replied back IN HER KNOWLEDGE that there was no change and the 'subject to immigration control' had always been on the form. and she was not aware that the list of public funding has changed in 2005 IN HER KNOWLEDGE again. and it turned out that she has worked there for 2 years only. I am wondering how the management of HMRC feed their advisors knowledge?

Earl Grey · Post by **Earl Grey** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:10 am

Hi people

I had exactly the same problem. I was a work permit holder with "no recouse to public funds" stated on my visa. I applied for Child Tax Credit in 2003 and had been paid for nearly 3 years.

In January 2006 when I was preparing my application form for ILR I noticed that Child tax Credit is now included in the list of public funds for immigration purposes.

I immediately called up Tax Office Helpline to notify that in my opinion I am not entitled for the tax credit anymore. It looked like they had no clue what is going on (I presume that was one of their outsourced call-centres), what the rules were and when did they change.

The guy asked me for the date from which I am not entitled. By that time I did not know exact details and was quite scared that this business can jeopardise my ILR application, so I told that it is likely I have never been entitled. I also asked him why at all my application was successful, and he said it is somehow indicated in my NI number.

Then I received a letter saying that they stopped payments, and a month later I received three nice bills for total of 6.5K pounds.

At that point I though that I have done something crazy: there was no evidence that it may somehow be of any help to my ILR application, and I had to pay back that huge amount.

So I have started my online investigation. After a sleepless night and a dozen cups of coffee I found all answer to my questions. I would like to point out just these three things:

1) Home Office leaflet "Public funds: what does it means?"
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... unds-6.pdf

If you applied for child or working tax credits before January 2005, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) may have paid you them in error. If so, HMRC will stop the payment. Any tax credits you did receive before the error was corrected will not count as recourse to public funds.

2) Welfare Rights Bulletin 186: Public Funds, benefits and tax credits
http://www.cpag.org.uk/cro/wrb/wrb186/public-funds.htm

The fact that tax credit was not listed did not mean that person who was admitted to the UK with a public funds restriction could claim tax credits because the tax credit rules themselves excluded the person from entitlement.

3) Tax Aid – Tax Credits – November 2005 update
Immigration status - what happens when there the initial award was incorrect?
http://www.taxaid.org.uk/help.cfm?secna ... icleid=194

Some claimants have been incorrectly awarded tax credits because their immigration status was not fully considered when processing their original application. HMRC has announced that in these circumstances where errors have been made and the claimant is not in fact eligible, then the amounts incorrectly paid will not be recovered. This is because it was an error by the Tax Credit Office and the claimants could not reasonably have known that their award was incorrect.

Then I did two things:
1) applied for ILR as I was not receiving tax credit anymore
2) made an appeal against recovery of overpaid tax credit

I have got my ILR last week in Croydon (ta-da!). There was no single question about tax credits, but if there were I had all my printouts ready, as well as the covering letter.

Appealing takes time, but I am absolutely sure that they won't claim the money back as it was their error and they know it.

Hope that helps.

Post by **John** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:38 am

Earl Grey, thanks for posting all that. A great first post.

But you know what you need to do now, don't you? Yes, claim Tax Credits and indeed also Child Benefit .... both now claimable totally legally, now that you have ILR.

Post by **JAJ** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:18 am

John wrote: In view of the wording of the Guide I would strongly maintain that it is misleading to say the least if only because of what it omits. .

It's worse than misleading. It's wrong.

Leaving aside the issue that the term "United Kingdom national" has no statutory definition - does it include British Overseas citizens or British Nationals (Overseas), for example?, it gets worse:

" ... you are a UK national if you, or one of your parents were born in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ....".

Not true in either case, some people born in the UK since 1983 are not British (and there are some limited exceptions concerning those born before 1983), and a UK born parent isn't enough (in itself) for citizenship either.

Earl Grey · Post by **Earl Grey** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:58 am

John wrote:Earl Grey, thanks for posting all that. A great first post.

But you know what you need to do now, don't you? Yes, claim Tax Credits and indeed also Child Benefit .... both now claimable totally legally, now that you have ILR.

Thanks, John.

Actually, I am not quite bothered about benefits now, but more about changing my current job

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:40 pm

Hi,

As posted before, I submitted ILR application in a face-to-face interview but the documents were retained by HO for further consideration for Child tax credit issue. That was on 9th Mar.

I have not got my documents back yet. I have arranged travel on 4th April already. Have faxed the air tickets etc to HO last week. Since then I almost called everyday and got reply 'waiting for consideration' every time.

What can I do except waiting? This may be not HO's fault but ... any contribution?

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:37 pm

Hi

I have got my ILR approval back on 3rd April. There was very few people queuing there compared to normal time. I would think I am really lucky.

Thank you guys for the info and help. Good luck all!

PS I will apply for all benefits now

sss999 · Post by **sss999** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 pm

Dear friends,

I have a similar problem. I applied for extension of leave to remain on the basis of HSMP, so had to send it by post. While investigating the delay I found out that I was in reciept of Child benefit and they had contact the Department of Child benefit for their explanation. I having found this out, (my ignorance!) came as a shock to me, called the agency immediately and cancelled it and agreed to pay back the overpaid fund.

I have not yet recieved a decision yet, could any one tell me their experience and
What I should do now?
If I am refused do I have chance to appeal?
If I am sent out of the country do I become completely ineligibe for another UK visa?
I have a job, house, mortgage etc and have been livin here on Permit Free training for more than 9 years...

yplx · Post by **yplx** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:34 am

hi

My sympathy. If you go through all the posts on this subject, you will find out all will depend on when you applied for this child tax credit - if it was before 2005 and you filled all the information on the original application form honestly, it is not regarded as your fault and the chance is you will be granted ILR after some delay. You even need not to refund HMRC the credit you received so far. But if it was not like that, you will be in trouble.

Good lucj

sss999 · Post by **sss999** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:52 pm

Thanks, I will anxiously wait as I think it not my fault. I applied back in 2003, any other had similar experience as yplx?

If I am refused, can I apply for HSMP or Work Permit again from the Home Country.

If yes, how soon and what are the chances of being rejected again on the same grounds?

sss999 · Post by **sss999** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:55 pm

Thanks John for your prompt response,

Hi, the Child Benefit application form from 2003? Sorry I don't have that. What I have posted on this Board is the Tax Credits application form from 2003.

So what is it you have inadvertently claimed? Child Benefit or Tax Credits?

It was child benefit I applied for, but the section were exactly similar to the one you posted. Can you tell me if there was a different application back then? Can you please send me the form? Thanks..

Post by **John** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:04 pm

The form extracts I posted .... in this topic! just look back at page 3 of 4. That is the extract of the 2003-version Tax Credits application form.

I don't have the 2003-version Child Benefit application form.

moni69 · Post by **moni69** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:30 am

Hello All,

I have been going through the same torture as Earl Grey, I too had applied for tax credits in 2003 (after arriving from india) with family.
When i discovered that the tax-credits are now in the list of public funds and HMRC did not intimate me or otherwise put a stop to my credits, I wrote to them, explaining my situation.
They have sent me 2 forms T157 and T406 (having details of immigration etc.), I very very clearly remember that when i filled the form in 2003, it did not had a single question about immigration control, except that "do you usually live in the UK".

I am waiting impatiently for their response, can anyone please advise what could be the outcome, as i am very nervous with this whole situation.

Earl Grey mentioned something about "and he said it is somehow indicated in my NI number"....... I had gone through an interview for the NI number....they have taken numerous copies of my passport and interviewed me for each and every details, and before finalising my tax credit in 2003, they also interviewed my wife before providing her with an NI number...SO WHY DID THEY NOT MENTION THEN, THAT WE WERE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR TAX CREDITS ???

thanks all

sss999 · Post by **sss999** » Wed May 03, 2006 11:46 am

Hi moni69

Did the Home Office contact you? How did you come to know of this problem. If the home office had not contacted you, they are probably still waiting for a response from HMRC regarding how you happened to be granted this credit.

What you should do is to write to the Home Office (ideally before they stamp a refusal) explaing the details and mentioneing that it was a honest mistake on your part and more importantly the Child credit back in 2003 did make some errors.

It should not be a problem asn I was in the same situation and they dd grant me an extension.

Good Luck

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