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Immigration reforms and future of Tier 1 (PSW)

Archived UK Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2

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fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:38 pm

mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Not satisfactory... I want the current psw, even changes have to be phased in. We have a strong case here. Otherwise, see you in court ukba... we have to be united. We want what is valid now. Atl for those finishing now.

If they divide us, we have lost already I have to say. Then all is in vain and we can start packing right now...

mohan1616
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Post by mohan1616 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:48 pm

I agree if we are united then we will get what we want.
I will suffer if it is not 2 years PSW.

Tier 4
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Post by Tier 4 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:54 pm

mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Reducing PSW to one year is not in proposals.
N/A

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Tier 4 wrote:
mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Reducing PSW to one year is not in proposals.
Unfortunately, complete cancellation is... we must prevent that.

mohan1616
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Post by mohan1616 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Tier 4 wrote:
mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Reducing PSW to one year is not in proposals.
"Restricting severly " is there in consultation dear friend

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Post by mohan1616 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:04 am

fibreman wrote:
Tier 4 wrote:
mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Unfortunately, complete cancellation is... we must prevent that.
they will not cancell it. They will generate the same 550 pound revenue from each student for last time for 1 year PSW. (my intution- I may be wrong)
Last edited by mohan1616 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tier 4 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:05 am

mohan1616 wrote:
Tier 4 wrote:
mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Reducing PSW to one year is not in proposals.
"Restricting severly " is there in consultation dear friend
Restrict it significantly:
They are talking about restricting it for PHD only.
Nevertheless they just playing with brains, nothing is understandable in their proposals, their think tank is drinking a hell of a thing these days.
N/A

fibreman
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Post by fibreman » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:11 am

Tier 4 wrote:
mohan1616 wrote:
Tier 4 wrote:
mohan1616 wrote:I know what will happen.

They know we will go to court. They know we will win. They will divide our intrests again. they will reduce to PSW to 1 year. Some people will accept and some wont.Some people will go back not accepting 1 year PSW(as it will be waste of time).Generate the same revenue. Close PSW for students comming from next year. they will also close tier 1. Generate income from British students.

All this will happen from March. (The same divide and rule policy).
Any comments
Reducing PSW to one year is not in proposals.
"Restricting severly " is there in consultation dear friend
Restrict it significantly:
They are talking about restricting it for PHD only.
Nevertheless they just playing with brains, nothing is understandable in their proposals, their think tank is drinking a hell of a thing these days.
Yes... we need to be prepared to strike soon! Short time of consultation... this is a trick to cacth us unprepared.

antonio22
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Post by antonio22 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:07 am

The Science and Engineering Graduates Scheme (SEGS) launched in October 2004.

On 1 May 2006, SEGS was expanded to include all postgraduate courses in any subject area that started after that date.

IGS replaced SEGS from 1 May 2007. However, applicants who had successfully completed their course before 1 May 2007 could still qualify under the old SEGS rules if they had successfully completed the relevant course in the last 12 months.

IGS and the similar Fresh Talent - Working in Scotland Scheme were discontinued on 30 June 2008, and replaced with Tier 1 (Post Study Work).

Holders of postgraduate certificates and postgraduate diplomas were originally eligible to apply, but these qualifications were removed from the eligibility in April 2009.

On 26 November 2010, the Home Secretary announced that she was consulting on closing Tier 1 (Post Study Work). It may implement from April 2011.

Here we can see every two years they normally changing their policies in this matter.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org

fahmad
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Post by fahmad » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:08 am

thank god the nus has representation of international students. hopefully if we don't win, they maybe able to offer legal representation? I don't know if they will, but who knows if we lobby them? We are afterall students, and member of the union.

If you look at London underground strikes, all of it is because of ticket counter jobs, but everyone in the RMT and TSSA striked including other staff members.

So if NUS can champion our views it would be awesome, I think they are already on it, but we can echo this to a bigger perspective. Maybe have press conferences.

It's really not fair this consultation is 8 weeks:

1. 8 weeks, well so what? We don't really care if it affects new students or not, if they know they have a short time, then why didnt they launch this consultation at the beginning of November? Don't tell me they don't know this policy will be put in place? Come ON, the Conservative govt have this in mind ever since before the elections, so the UKBA know about this proposals well ahead of time, so don't give us the crap that they only have 8 weeks because time is running short. It is only running short because they chose to start it in DECEMBER. It is discrimination towards international students, why do other visa category get prefential treatment being able to carry out 12 weeks consultation?

2. And look at this properly this 8 weeks starting Dec 7th until 31st Jan; It's over the holiday periods, most if not all international students may have headed home over this period, they won't be aware about this until like when they come back mid-Jan and it won't give enough time for them to participate in the consultation. Universities and businesses WILL definitely be closed during the holiday season, how on earth are they going to conduct their internal meeting and put their views into paperwork to submit to the UKBA for the consultation. So, really I think we only were technically given about 4-6 weeks for the consultation, absolutely NOT FAIR.

*********

The media need to highlight this issue - however, the media often portrays immigration as a BAD thing, maybe someone need to TELL them on the contribution of UK's GDP. I think everyone, in particularly, the UK need this GDP contribution seeing their deficit level is high. I think it is a bit unwise to remove this contribution international students make! And it's not all about tuition fees - we pay for our food, accommodation etc. These are all TAXABLE. We pay for VAT. I think we have some right to VOICE and just not being pushed around.

Transitional arragements nothing less. I think that's a very fair deal: Govt wins by no longer having scheme, students already here win to keep their lives on track.

I don't know someone posted here that they got a pre-reg pharmacy job offer. You are not alone, some of us have already secured job offers, I've got two, but now if this scheme is scrapped I need to go home? And I have planned my life.

Also, if the govt claim they want to INCREASE graduate employment, then make sure their students do a right course. Obviously if you have 5 students form the same univ doing: history, fine art, film studies, economics and war studies. It is not rocket science to know that the economics graduate will probably be the one getting a graduate job! Their students just do the randomest choice of course and you expect employers to blindly EMPLOY everyone in recession times? OBVIOUSLY only one out of 5 graduates will be employed. For eg, medicine graduates, if you look at employment rate its about >90%, specialist courses are high too. Only courses of non high demand tend to have high unemployment rate, so technically you can't just 'average' everything! You can't just blame it because the PSW is in place they are competing. No offense if some of u doing the course above, I mean just realistically speaking. I just find it annoying when they give these figures BLINDLY without seeing the real problem. Obviously if u r good enough the employers will take u on but this is a general point of view.

luckylondon
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Post by luckylondon » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:15 am

we cant predict any thng upto Januray....wht ever thy do...like restricting to Phd, or making to 1 yr or completly scrabing it......its comptly not acceptable....

we want Transitional time....so we need to plan wht will be our next step..

antonio22
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Post by antonio22 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:14 pm


luckylondon
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Post by luckylondon » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:48 pm

Only one solution...Transitional arrangement
We were promised PSW for 2yrs...ths why took admission....otherwise whts the need of spending tht much money and time..here

rizwanvu
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MP letter

Post by rizwanvu » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:36 pm

Dear Friends.

i have sent email at 13 dec to my local MP about our new Immigration Policy . Today i received letter by post from MP. he said the same wording (Thank you for email at 13th december conncerning the proposed changes to obtaining student and other visas, i have written today to Damian Green MP the Minister for immigration on your behalf and will write to you agin as soon as i have received a response.
with best wishes.
your sincerly
MP xxxxx)


please all student send a email to local MP about our problems.

thanks
RIZWAN

Unikid
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Post by Unikid » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:37 pm

I've sent an email to MP of Nottingham and the head of pharmacy school so that they can raise the voice for us hopefully.
Hi Rubydinh, Good job! I think we also need to give letter to The Royal Pharmaceutical Society and The General Pharmaceutical Council to indicate our hardship due to.

Does any other students studying other professional courses such as engin, medicine, nursing, architecture, surveying, accounting,...etc who needs work experience to become qualiified professional can join and do some help here?

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Post by Tier 4 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:19 am

Three transitional compromises that Home Office did for existing students:

Apart from MBA and HSMP (JR) there are other transitional agreements that UKBA offered to international students.

1. Switching to a different sponsor
• If the student's current permission to stay is based on a Tier 4 application made on or after 5 October 2009
• If the student's current permission to stay is based on a Tier 4 application made before 5 October 2009

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/emplo ... g-sponsor/

2. How many hours a week student can work depends on the issue date of visa:

• 6 April 2010 or later
• 3 March – 5 April 2010 inclusive
• 31 March 2009 – 2 March 2010 inclusive
• Before 31 March 2009.

http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/student/info_s ... .php#hours

3. For in-country student extension the money should be in your account for a one day (that rule did exist till January 2010 as a transitional for existing students)
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Re: MP letter

Post by Tier 4 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:29 am

rizwanvu wrote:Dear Friends.

i have sent email at 13 dec to my local MP about our new Immigration Policy . Today i received letter by post from MP. he said the same wording (Thank you for email at 13th december conncerning the proposed changes to obtaining student and other visas, i have written today to Damian Green MP the Minister for immigration on your behalf and will write to you agin as soon as i have received a response.
with best wishes.
your sincerly
MP xxxxx)


please all student send a email to local MP about our problems.

thanks
I send emails to MPs and got almost the same reply
N/A

rizwanvu
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GOOD NEWS

Post by rizwanvu » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:44 pm

Good News on BBC

Introduction of immigration cap deemed unlawful:
A temporary cap on the number of skilled workers from outside the EU allowed into the UK was introduced "unlawfully", the High Court has ruled.
RIZWAN

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United Kingdom

Post by geriatrix » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:27 pm

Please note that the court ruled that the cap was unlawful because of a technicality (parliamentary scrutiny not undertaken before introducing the cap) and not because the government cannot undertake such measures.


regards

mist99
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Post by mist99 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:48 pm

We could make a collective donation to JCWI and also raise our concern, so that it could campaign for PSW transition as well.

fahmad
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Post by fahmad » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:29 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Please note that the court ruled that the cap was unlawful because of a technicality (parliamentary scrutiny not undertaken before introducing the cap) and not because the government cannot undertake such measures.


regards
This is true. The government can obviously take measures on any immigration issues, as at the end of the day it is the government that protects its sovereignity. However, if the JCWI did not act, the measure would have deemed lawful in the eyes of everyone i.e. they can do whatever they want, overnight. It is only because it was challenged in the courts, this decision has nullified the government's temporary cap; it did its action abruptly before going on proper channels i.e. through parliament etc.

Lesson learnt: We are not questioning what the government can or cannot do. It is the WAY how the government deals with taking such measure is the essence of it all. We think whilst the government can definitely abolish the PSW visa, we think the way they should do it i.e. providing transitional arrangements should be a fair-for-all deal.

We have to bear in mind, a judicial review on the HSMP programme also involved a similar nature of argument. The government definitely CAN prolong periods of eligibility for ILR from 4 to 5 years (or abolish the scheme, or do anything they want). However, the abrupt manner it took made the courts rule in favour of HSMP holders as it violated their rights; therefore those who were on the scheme prior to the announcement were allowed 4 years, whilst those after 5 years. (In no part of this arrangement there was a GUARANTEE those HSMP holders will get an ILR, they just qualify to apply for an ILR). The government made a retrospective move which put people in hardship hence why the courts ruled in favour.

Similarly, in the PSW case; Student visa holders who qualified were offered the PSW as an 'extension option' upon graduation from their qualifying programmes of study. This option was presented during the point of entry during their student visa. That means, a student would have, bearing that in mind, chose a post-study pathway that may have used this PSW option. No where did it say a student visa holder would GUARANTEE be given a PSW visa, but the option was nonetheless given. Therefore, following the HSMP precedent, we think those already in the UK under a student visa which qualifies for the PSW should have this option still rendered, whilst the government can of course take any measures on NEW applicants who are not given this option in the first instance.

The end verdict, if challenged in courts, come from the judicial system and not the executive branch of the system i.e the courts not the government. So, if ever the move is challenged in the courts, we should let the judiciary decide as any decision made by anyone besides them during the course of review would deem subjudice to the case.

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:27 am

fahmad wrote:
sushdmehta wrote:Please note that the court ruled that the cap was unlawful because of a technicality (parliamentary scrutiny not undertaken before introducing the cap) and not because the government cannot undertake such measures.


regards
This is true. The government can obviously take measures on any immigration issues, as at the end of the day it is the government that protects its sovereignity. However, if the JCWI did not act, the measure would have deemed lawful in the eyes of everyone i.e. they can do whatever they want, overnight. It is only because it was challenged in the courts, this decision has nullified the government's temporary cap; it did its action abruptly before going on proper channels i.e. through parliament etc.

Lesson learnt: We are not questioning what the government can or cannot do. It is the WAY how the government deals with taking such measure is the essence of it all. We think whilst the government can definitely abolish the PSW visa, we think the way they should do it i.e. providing transitional arrangements should be a fair-for-all deal.

We have to bear in mind, a judicial review on the HSMP programme also involved a similar nature of argument. The government definitely CAN prolong periods of eligibility for ILR from 4 to 5 years (or abolish the scheme, or do anything they want). However, the abrupt manner it took made the courts rule in favour of HSMP holders as it violated their rights; therefore those who were on the scheme prior to the announcement were allowed 4 years, whilst those after 5 years. (In no part of this arrangement there was a GUARANTEE those HSMP holders will get an ILR, they just qualify to apply for an ILR). The government made a retrospective move which put people in hardship hence why the courts ruled in favour.

Similarly, in the PSW case; Student visa holders who qualified were offered the PSW as an 'extension option' upon graduation from their qualifying programmes of study. This option was presented during the point of entry during their student visa. That means, a student would have, bearing that in mind, chose a post-study pathway that may have used this PSW option. No where did it say a student visa holder would GUARANTEE be given a PSW visa, but the option was nonetheless given. Therefore, following the HSMP precedent, we think those already in the UK under a student visa which qualifies for the PSW should have this option still rendered, whilst the government can of course take any measures on NEW applicants who are not given this option in the first instance.

The end verdict, if challenged in courts, come from the judicial system and not the executive branch of the system i.e the courts not the government. So, if ever the move is challenged in the courts, we should let the judiciary decide as any decision made by anyone besides them during the course of review would deem subjudice to the case.
The HSMP judicial review DOES NOT MEAN THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO PUT IN TRANSITIONAL ARRANGEMENTS. Please read it in conjunction with the 1971 Immigration Act, and the rest. You also need to look up "legitimate expectation" The case was won because they had a  legitimate expectation that changes in the rules would not affect them. Why? well because they were told that changes in the rules would not affect current HSMP people.

No such promise has been made by the UK Border Agency to students, as you yourself concede.

luckylondon
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Post by luckylondon » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:08 am

so whts the option left for students....we need to be well prepared before....we cant sit ideal and wait for decision .... hopping no changes to PSW.....we have to use ths time...might be possible we wunt left with enough time period...later own.

tall_funky
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Post by tall_funky » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:53 pm

Blackwater1 wrote:Ultimately a question arises that after spending so much time/money,would you still be able to stay in this country or no!!!If the answer is no,then do not waste a single penny/second on these and look for a better option somewhere else.
I don't agree with your GIVE UP option!

Just for argument sake:-
lets say we end up in court and lose our case(which we will not).
Going by previous cases of this nature it can take anything between 2 to 3 years from start to finish, so in a worst case scenario we are still here for those 2 to 3 years and working(as far as I understand you can work full time once you have submitted your dissertation because you are waiting for your result, you don’t have any classes to attend).
In case we win, we will get extra 2 years apart from whatever time we have “WASTEDâ€

tall_funky
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Post by tall_funky » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:54 pm

xleft wrote:
tall_funky wrote:
xleft wrote:Guys, I think we must all take active part in the consultation and ask all our friends and relatives also take part in the consultation.

I suggest that the main demands should be:

1) Long and fair transitional period for all student who are now eligible for PSW after their current course.

2) Do not implement the rule when you have to leave the country to apply for new degree. This is very inconvenient and will also hit universities very hard because almost half of their new foreign students are already residents here.

I think we should focus on these two demands or "suggestions".

You can take part in the consultation at least in three ways and I think the best is to use all of them for maximum impact:

1. On-line form:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/stude ... ult-online

2. E-mail:
studentconsultation@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

3. Paper form (print and send), download it here (PDF):
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... /students/

And don't forget, ask all your friends and relatives also to take part. Also ask your universities to take part (academic staff sometimes needs little stimulation).

We will win! :wink:
Very well said.
Apart from taking part in the consultation I suggest we prepare a draft letter which we can change according to our personal situation and send these letters to MPs, HomeOffice Select Committee, Home minister, PM/DPM, Vince Cable and Universities Minister.
Also, once the letter is ready we send it as a group to all of the above.

Guy's any suggestions??
Plz act fast time is running short.
If you or someone could gather postal addresses where to send letters and post here, it would be great. Several first class stamps are worth it after paying overseas tuition fees. :idea:
You can find all the Info here:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

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