Tier 1 refusal - Need Help Urgent - for AR application

[Sowmya]

Hi All,

I had applied for tier 1 general on 23rd Nov and got the refusal letter today saying Fixed Deposit from Kotak Mahindra does not show that i can withdraw the ammount.

But i had not submitted the fixed deposit statement at all from the kotak. I had submitted term deposit transaction statement. Looks like admistrator as not understood what exactly it is.
As per the kotak term deposit rule, we can withdraw the ammount anytime. And whenever my account balance is more than 1 lac it directly goes to term deposit and they will pay some interest every 15 days or every month which ever we choose.
And moreover the term deposit transaction statement clearly shows some transaction which is deducted from the deposited ammount towards my housing loan and check i have given. And no where in the kotak statements or kotak leter its mentioned as fixed deposit
Considering this. Can i explain this in my AR and apply? And also i'm thinking to provide the kotak link explaining the term deposit and bank manager contact number and address to get further clarifications
From my long research on the forum from morning, i got to know i can not submit any documents supporting the same.
Please check my senario and advise me if its worth applying for AR. I'm really worried and confused what to do.

[geriatrix]

As per the kotak term deposit rule, we can withdraw the ammount anytime.

A fact known only to the bank customers and perhaps documented only in the term deposit terms and conditions.

When using a term deposit as evidence of maintenance funds, it must be accompanied by a letter from the bank certifying that the money has been held for at least 90 days and that the money can be withdrawn at any time by the account holder(s).

IMHO, it will better if you apply afresh - this time with the letter from the bank if you intend to use a term deposit as evidence of maintenance funds.


regards

[Sowmya]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.
I had submitted the term deposit transaction statement which shows that some ammount has been deducted from the deposit ammount towards housing loan etc. So this clearly shows it can be withdrawn anytime.
And also i had submitted the letter from bank which states 3.66lacs has been maintained through out the 90 days period.

What do you think now?
Thanks
Sowmya

[mulderpf]

Having an amount deducted does not prove that money can be withdrawn at any time. You need to prove and not let the case officer simply assume that the money can be withdrawn at any time. Based on the documents you submitted this is not clear to the case officer.

[Sowmya]

Both of you are correct. In your perspective should i explain this in AR or go for new application?

[mulderpf]

New application as the documentation does not make it clear. Admin review will simply uphold the decision made by the case worker based on what they were presented with. However it is just my view.

[neosumit]

Both of you are correct. In your perspective should i explain this in AR or go for new application?

You could very well include a letter in the AR explaining what a 'term deposit' means.
Not including a line in the letter mentioning that 'money can be withdrawn anytime' proves that the BHC is hell bent upon dismissing applications.

If the case worker would have called up the bank, it would defintely have helped your case. What I mean here is as an applicant your provided the correct details and in the correct format. It is upto the case worker to verify if he has some doubts regarding what a 'term deposit' exactly means. You should be filing an AR.

Although, no new document can be submitted in an AR, in your case the additional document from Kotak Bank would imply that the case worker was unable to verify a simple document by calling up the bank.

Also you can seek professional advice.
You can PM me if you want and I can provide a reference for a professional for your case. I had also filed for a admin review and I got the decision in my favour.

[mulderpf]

What term deposit do you have?

I work in the banking industry and in my country a term deposit is a deposit which is for a fixed term (32 days, 88 days etc etc). I looked it up on Kotak Mahindra's site to see how it gets done in another part of the world. And it doesn't seem very different from here. In fact, looking at the website, it doesn't seem to be firstly any different to the international standard of what a term deposit is and secondly I am not so sure that it fully statisfies the requirement:

210. Evidence must be in the form of cash funds held in an account (this includes savings accounts and current accounts even when notice must be given). Other accounts or financial instruments such as shares, bonds, pension funds etc, are not acceptable, regardless of notice period.

It would seem that when taking money out of the deposit, rather than taking out cash, you are going into overdraft / sweep-in. That sounds more like a current account overdraft facility (which is credit provided by the bank and NOT allowed by the UKBA), rather than cash.

Can anyone else comment on that?

[Sowmya]

I just went through my refusal again and i want to clearly write down here.

BHC comments on Maintaince funds :

-Savings account from Kotak Mahindra bank does not show a balance of 2800 pounds has been held for consecutive 90 days period
My Comments -
This is a savings account and there is another Sweep account which is linked to saving ie Term deposit account. Any balance more than 1 lacs goes to term deposit which is linked to savings and kept there to persue interst. So i had submitted the term deposit transaction statement along with savings account statement. In the term deposit statement, it clearly shows the balance more the 4lacs ( more than 2800 pounds) held for the period of 3 consecutive months. And also there is transaction happened between sweep in and savings account internally when there is shortage of money in savings. For example - i had given a check and there was no enough amount in the savings and they had pulled it from sweep in account and cleared the check. This shows the automatical transaction happening which clearly shows its linked account.

BHC Comment 2 -
Letter from the Kotak Mahindra bank dated on 19th Nov states that balance hend in the account and does not show required ammount of have been held for full period needed.

My Comments-
I had submitted the letter from the bank which states " Account holder xxx with account no xxx had maintainded a minumum balance of 3,83 659 from the period 1st Aug till date in the for Term deposit"
Does it mean that i have maintained enough balance for the period of 3 months? 3 periods time frame is - 1st Aug to 1 Nov is 3 months. And letter says its till date which 19th Nov. Why he is written like this?

BHC Comment 3 -
Fixed deposit held at kotak mahindra bank. The letter from the bank does not show thats funds can be withdrawn any time.

My Comments-
Where in the immigration rules they have mentioned that leter should say that we can withdraw the ammount at any point of time? I checked the gudance they say
"The letter from the financial institution regulated by the Financial Services Authority or the home regulator should state:
 your name;
 the account number;
 the date of the letter;
 the financial institution's name and logo;
 the funds held in your account; and
 that the funds have been in the bank for at least three months.
"
Then which rule is he considering to make this statement?
Moreover, any Fixed Deposit or Term Deposit can be withdrawn at any point of time irrespective of the locking period. At the end of the day its our money and no bank can say that we can withdraw. in case of locking period they might charge some ammount if we withdarw thats it!!!!!

Giving above statements, i want to go for AR review. Please let me know ur views.

Thanks in advance
Sowmya

[neosumit]

I just went through my refusal again and i want to clearly write down here.

BHC Comment 2 -
Letter from the Kotak Mahindra bank dated on 19th Nov states that balance hend in the account and does not show required ammount of have been held for full period needed.

My Comments-
I had submitted the letter from the bank which states " Account holder xxx with account no xxx had maintainded a minumum balance of 3,83 659 from the period 1st Aug till date in the for Term deposit"
Does it mean that i have maintained enough balance for the period of 3 months? 3 periods time frame is - 1st Aug to 1 Nov is 3 months. And letter says its till date which 19th Nov. Why he is written like this?

Thanks in advance
Sowmya

Sowmya,

In your case, the letter was dated 19th Nov.

So your 90 days ends on 19th Nov. You have a valid case and should file an AR.

[mulderpf]

BHC Comment 3 -
Fixed deposit held at kotak mahindra bank. The letter from the bank does not show thats funds can be withdrawn any time.

My Comments-
Where in the immigration rules they have mentioned that leter should say that we can withdraw the ammount at any point of time? I checked the gudance they say
"The letter from the financial institution regulated by the Financial Services Authority or the home regulator should state:
 your name;
 the account number;
 the date of the letter;
 the financial institution's name and logo;
 the funds held in your account; and
 that the funds have been in the bank for at least three months.
"
Then which rule is he considering to make this statement?
Moreover, any Fixed Deposit or Term Deposit can be withdrawn at any point of time irrespective of the locking period. At the end of the day its our money and no bank can say that we can withdraw. in case of locking period they might charge some ammount if we withdarw thats it!!!!!

Paragraph 210 refers to cash funds. Cash would mean that it's readily accessible and that's what they're looking for.

Based on what you're saying, I think you should go for AR.

[Sowmya]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your comments.
I also visited bank manager and vfs office everyone gave me the same comments as above. And i'm more confident now to apply for AR. I'm looking to take an appointment with BHC, chennai and submit the AR. Please let me know if anyone has tried to get an appointment. I tried calling BHC from morning, but no one picked up the call.


Thanks again,
Sowmya

[neosumit]

You can post the letter to BHC Chennai. No need for an apointment.

[Sowmya]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your comments.

I planning to submit the AR review in tomorrow. If any one of you know expert so that i can show my covering leter please PM the contact details. Please read the following covering letter and let me know from your perspective my AR will get through or not. Please let me know ASAP.

Dear Sir or Madam:

My name is Sowmya A Satish. I have recently been denied an Entry Clearance Visa for Tier 1 General visa application filed with the VFS Receipt # BLAC/231110/000009/1

I believe the decision to refuse my entry clearance application is incorrect. There may be certain discrepancies and errors in my application review and I would like to request for an administrative review. Please find below a detailed clarification addressing all concerns put forth in my application.

I have claimed 10 points under Maintenance Funds section. As proof of maintenance, I have provided letter from Kotak Mahindra Bank. As additional supporting evidence, I had provided Term Deposit Consolidated Statement from Kotak Mahindra Bank which is internally linked to Kotak Mahindra Savings Account (Acct No. - xxxxxxxxx9590).
The ECO has denied those points stating the following:
1. Letter from Kotak Mahindra Bank dated 19/11/2010 states the balance held in the account and does not show the required level of funds have been held for the full period needed.
2. Savings account with Kotak Mahindra Bank account number xxxx9590. The statement does not show a balance of 2800 GB P has been held for consecutive 90 day period.
3. Fixed Deposit held with Kotak Mahindra Bank. The letter from the bank does not indicate that funds can be withdrawn at any time.
4. Citibank statement does not show you have held the required level of funds covering a consecutive 90 day period before the date of your application.

My Clarifications for above points is as follows:

1. Letter from Kotak Mahindra Bank dated 19/11/2010 states the balance held in the account and does not show the required level of funds have been held for the full period needed.

I had provided an attested letter from the Kotak Mahindra Bank dated 19/11/2010 in order to earn points for fund maintenance. The letter states that “The balance maintained from the period 19th Aug 2010 till date is 373,260â€

[chandu1234]

I don't think so, something is wrong from u r end only.

[Sowmya]

As per my best knowledge, whatever i have written is absolutely true and correct.
Looks like ECO did not understand the meaning or Term Deposit Statement or he has not clearly looked into.

Thanks
Sowmya

[Sowmya]

Others pls post your views on my AR review covering letter. I'm planning to send it through email today.

[mulderpf]

Just something on this that was bothering me a little.

Your bank letter says: "The balance maintained from the period 19th Aug 2010 till date is 373,260", BUT, then you say: "transaction details shown on 6th Sep 2010 indicates that 17,516 is sweep to xxxx9590".

How did you keep a steady balance of 373,260 whilst money was moved to another account? This would lead me to believe that either you did not maintain a balance of 373,260 or the balance given by the bank was the balance on a specific day. (Just saying - that's how I would view it if I was an immigration officer).

I am not saying you will not succeed in AR - but just check the wording and the logic behind what you are saying and using in your argument, because it would seem from what you posted here that something doesn't add up...

[Sowmya]

Hi,,
The transaction statement i had mentioned to prove that my term deposit is linked account to savings account with sweep out facility. i had provided that as example saying that there has been some ammount deducted from my term deposit to savings account which proves that i can withdraw anyammount anytime from term deposit.

Anyways...i have applied for AR review today and crossing my finger.