5 years for ILR rule implemented

[supertiger]

yesterday I might agree with you, but now something has changed

what makes the change? I just back home missed the news, what's happened today? I knew Tony McNulty has gone...

[supertiger]

Susan Kramer's name is now showing on EDM page! She's the 31st who signed.

[rg1]

Now both CC & TM have gone!

I know public is against immigrants in general - but for illegal immigrants!

We are teachers, doctors, engineers etc. We are neither asylum seekers nor live on public funds. So, we must try hard NOW.

When new minister comes, he must show that he is better than his predecessor. So, it is high time that VBSI & CL actively discuss the matter with him.

HO very secretly changed the rule from 4 to 5 years without any public notice. They can again do the same - removing the retrospective part of the rule!

[RobinLondon]

Are there any bolshie Brummies amongst us?

The new Minister of State for Immigration, Liam Byrne, represents Birmingham (Hodge Hill). Does anyone live in his constituency and thus can give him a gentle introduction to our cause?

[cantab]

great news about mcnulty getting the boot.

[nonothing]

Home Affairs Committee Tuesday 23 May 2006
Welcome to today’s meeting of the Home Affairs Committee.

How the Committee works

The Home Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration and policy of the Home Office and some related matters.

Within its terms of reference, the Committee chooses its own subjects of inquiry and seeks evidence from a wide range of groups and individuals with relevant interests and experience.

When the Committee has chosen an inquiry it normally issues a press notice outlining the main themes of inquiry and inviting interested parties to submit written evidence.

A Committee may also identify possible witnesses and issue specific invitations to them to submit written evidence. Evidence may be either oral, or written, or both. Oral evidence is usually given in public, and is then published, in both paper form and on the website. (See www.parliament.uk)

Depending on the subject, external deadlines, and the amount of oral evidence the Committee decides to take, an inquiry may last for several months and give rise to a report to the House. The Government has to reply to any report within two months. Other inquiries may simply consist of a single day’s oral evidence which the Committee may publish without making a report.

A minimum of four Members of the Committee must be present for any formal proceedings, such as taking evidence.

Today’s evidence session— Immigration Control

The Committee is taking evidence from the Rt Hon Dr John Reid MP, Secretary of State for the Home Department, Sir David Normington KCB, Permanent Secretary, Home Office, Lin Homer, Director-General, Immigration and Nationality Directorate, and Helen Edwards CBE, Chief Executive, National Offender Management Service.

This is the ninth evidence session of the Committee’s inquiry into Immigration Control. This session will focus on the main issues concerning the deportation of foreign national prisoners.

The Committee’s terms of reference for this inquiry are as follows:

“The Committee will inquire into the policy and practice of immigration control, examining the entry clearance (visa) system, the granting or refusing of further leave in the UK and the enforcement of immigration control. The inquiry will range over topics including:

institutional structures and coordination
quality of initial decisions (both entry clearance and after-entry)
particular areas of policy, including the proposed points-based scheme
appeals and judicial review
e-Borders, including biometrics
reporting, investigating and punishing immigration offenders
detention policy and conditions
race equality issues
customer satisfaction
immigration statistics
co-ordination with European immigration policies

The inquiry will consider the degree to which the stated aims of the Immigration and Nationality Directorate and UKvisas are being met; the extent of implementation of recommendations of recent reports and inquiries; and lessons to be learnt from the operation of the current system that might inform the implementation of the new Government policy.”

The Committee will be prepared to exercise its right to sit in private if necessary to hear sensitive evidence on these topics.

The session is expected to last for up to two hours.

Committee membership

Rt Hon John Denham MP, Chairman (Lab,Southampton, Itchen)
Mr Richard Benyon MP (Con, Newbury)
Mr Jeremy Browne MP (Lib Dem, Taunton)
Colin Burgon MP (Lab, Elmet)
Mr James Clappison MP (Con, Hertsmere)
Mrs Ann Cryer MP (Lab, Keighley)
Mrs Janet Dean MP (Lab, Burton)
Mr Shahid Malik MP (Lab, Dewsbury)
Steve McCabe MP (Lab, Birmingham, Hall Green)
Gwyn Prosser MP (Lab, Dover)
Bob Russell (Lib Dem, Colchester)
Mr Richard Spring (Con, West Suffolk)
Mr Gary Streeter MP (Con, South West Devon)
Mr David Winnick MP (Lab, Walsall North)

How can I get a record of what is said?

A transcript of this session will be placed on www.parliament.uk as soon as possible. Print copies will be available later from The Stationery Office (0845 7023474). This session can also be found in the archive at www.parliamentlive.tv.

[John]

This Select Committee hearing has made the lunchtime TV news if only because of :-

System 'not fit for purpose', says Reid

-: which is quite an admission for the Home Secretary!

[nonothing]

Home Secretary John Reid has damned his department's immigration system as "not fit for purpose" with "inadequate" leadership and management systems.

apparently we're the victims of it.

[Globetrotter]

Tony McNulty is gone he has been replaced by Liam Byrne

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5006126.stm

JOY TO THE WORLD!
What goes around, comes around!

[Globetrotter]

Considering the change in portfolio, should we all write again to our MPs to contact the NEW GUY about our position?

[John]

Globetrotter, yes, why not! And certainly anyone who happens to live in Birmingham Hodge Hill constituency needs to make a point of going along to their MPs advice bureau :-

Contact Liam

Unfortunately we are in next-door Birmingham Erdington constituency.

[nonothing]

Considering the change in portfolio, should we all write again to our MPs to contact the NEW GUY about our position?

it's definitely helpful!

[rg1]

Yes, we should now approach new ministers. They have already declared current system as rubbish. That means they want to prove they are better and more logical than their predecessors!

At least something is happening.... we still have hope to overturn the rule

[ansaggart]

Gentlemen,

I believe that we should use the current situation as a lever against our case.

We all know that our case is valid and therefore we should use it use it as the good (us) against the bad (illegals and so on)

We should try to obtain private audiences with the new Home Secretary and the new persons in charge of the IND and all this should be done in conjunction with the politicians and all other that have promised there support.

I believe that if we move fast now we should have a real chance.

What do you think?

[tobiashomer]

some time ago I suggested that the OISC firms who make a living helping people through the hurdles to UK residence and work should speak up on our behalf. I did not get any response either from members of this forum or from the OISC-firm I had contact with (Jones Kelleher).

Now I notice that there is another body, the ILPA (Immigration Law Practitioners Association). Their web site says thy are dedicated to

- promote and improve the advising and representation of immigrants
- provide information to members on domestic and European immigration, refugee and nationality law
- secure a non-dearly beloved, non-sexist, just and equitable system of immigration, refugee and nationality law.

Thus they may have a more objective approach than OISC, which stands to gain from the introduction of a new application phase and longer residence requirements.

They made a very interesting argument to Tony McNulty on behalf of their businessmen clients:

http://www.ilpa.org.uk/submissions/cont ... idence.htm

He does not seem to have been moved. But now that he has moved on to pursuing criminals (as minister for police) rather than persecuting law-abiding taxpayers, I wonder if we should not try to get a similar submission on our 4-to-5 issue? any thoughts?

[supertiger]

ILPA has written to Tony McNulty at a very early stage when the change first came out. But they are very careful in the wording they replied me and no idea what kind of reply they got from the minister. They are doing different trainings according to the new rule so wonder if they still can promote anything...

[tobiashomer]

supertiger, do you have a copy of their letter to TM? I would be happy to write to them and suggest they should try again now that there is a new crowd at IND.

thanks

[supertiger]

supertiger, do you have a copy of their letter to TM? I would be happy to write to them and suggest they should try again now that there is a new crowd at IND.

thanks

Only email reply:

From: "info" <info@ilpa.org.uk>
Subject: RE: Recent policy change on ILR
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:25:40 -0000


dear XXX,

The Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules is available from the Stationery Office and from the Home Office website - if you can access it. ILPA has written to the minister about the changes and the way they are being made. Please see the March ILPA mailing which should reach you on Monday/tuesday.
We are also holding some training on March 30. Please see Training Programme on ILPA website.

ILPA

[tobiashomer]

their Mach submission did not have any reference to 4-to-5 that I could find. have I missed something? if not then perhaps the time is ripe to approach them.

[aj77]

Yes I agree with tobiashomer that this the time that we or preferably VBSI should contact ILPA and ask them whether they will support us for removing retrospective element of the current changes.
VBSI can send that letter, sent to parliamentarians,as it is not a simple letter,It is sort of Research Paper which proves with logical reasons that retrospective element would have negative consequences on British economy and society.As ILPA's participation is being mentioned in the document submitted in March 2006 in Parliament,their support could be of great help to us and we can get some guidance too from ILPA regarding challenging those changes in the court if Government doesn't remove this retrospective element by itself.Working with the support of ILPA would prove useful if they agree to support us.

[supertiger]

I agree with you to contact ILPA again. also because they are one of the 2 organisations Tony McNulty mentioned, the other one is CL...

I don;t think their March submission is the letter they mentioned, otherwise Tony wouldn't say they raised concerns...

also who knows anything on Damian Green's standing commitee? seems not as same as the one on yesterday?

[supertiger]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Home Secretary John Reid has vowed to do "whatever it takes" to make the public feel safe.

In an interview with a national newspaper, he set a deadline of 100 days to sort out the system that failed to deport 1,019 foreign prisoners.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH RIGHT!!!! AND WHEN DO WE STRAT COUNTING FOR 100 DAYS????

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tvt
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 1369
Location: London
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I bet there will be again more harsh measures directed against hardworking tax-paying legal migrants.

Apparently our ILR issue is not on John Reid's To Do lost within 100 days, at least not yet. I don;t know if we can get him to take this issue into his account, but we do need to try it, otherwise he will be driving to achieving the other set goals in the next 100 days, even if he is willing to listen after goal set, it would be a long delay... the longer the rule implements, the harder it is to be changed back. Correcting error should be one of the things to do. we can all write to him and the new immigration minister, together with VBSI or any other possible bodies to push them to review it. It is a very crucial time, once their seats are warm, it'll be even harder to get them listen to us...

[mahin1110]

Liam is the MP of my constituency. I have written him and he wrote to IND. Yesterday he forwared me the reply given by IND. IND argued the same points as mentioned by previous minister (e.g. no views were received regarding qualifying periods, morgages and tuition fees). However, Liam has asked me to contact him if I need further info. I am giving him an email requesting an appointment. Could anyone give me any information regarding consultation made by government regarding qualifying period? I will try to make some points personally if I get a chance.

Thanks
------------------------

Globetrotter, yes, why not! And certainly anyone who happens to live in Birmingham Hodge Hill constituency needs to make a point of going along to their MPs advice bureau :-

Contact Liam

Unfortunately we are in next-door Birmingham Erdington constituency.

[tobiashomer]

of course the bureaucrats at IND will say the same thing they said before, but hopefully we can take advantage of the "new broom" period to highlight one of the things the bureaucrats were and are getting wrong.

Of course they can say that mortgages and tuition fees are outside their control, but their misguided application of a policy initiative is causing us hardships we would not have suffered otherwise. I would also mention the family vulnerability issue (IND does not control death either, but if the primary visa holder dies during the fifth year his or her family will suffer severe hardship as a direct result). I feel this one especially strongly as I am an older HSMP and have had some recent health issues); and the special hardhip impsed on work permit holders who had negotiated their jobs and planned their careers based on ILR after 4 years.

Liam is the MP of my constituency. I have written him and he wrote to IND. Yesterday he forwared me the reply given by IND. IND argued the same points as mentioned by previous minister (e.g. no views were received regarding qualifying periods, morgages and tuition fees). However, Liam has asked me to contact him if I need further info. I am giving him an email requesting an appointment. Could anyone give me any information regarding consultation made by government regarding qualifying period? I will try to make some points personally if I get a chance.

Thanks
------------------------

Globetrotter, yes, why not! And certainly anyone who happens to live in Birmingham Hodge Hill constituency needs to make a point of going along to their MPs advice bureau :-

Contact Liam

Unfortunately we are in next-door Birmingham Erdington constituency.

[abcd1]

Mortgage/tution fees are just the tip of iceberg.

For WP holders it is a dicey situation. If a WP holder, after finishing 4 years in UK, loses job now, unless he can find another employer to sponsor WP [which is difficult more often than not] he will have to leave the country with family (dependants)!!! That's great hardship!!!

Suppose A is WP holder and B is A's spouse who studies in university.
B does not need separate student's visa as she is A's dependent.

Now if A loses job, as per rule, B also loses the right to stay in UK. The only way B can stay to convert her visa to student's one. For that she needs to leave UK. Now if she applies for student's visa, that'll be refused as she can't show funding during study (B lived on A's expense).

I'm not saying that B could have lived on dole having ILR. But an ILR would not force A to live UK immediatly and he can easily search for a job (which is easy to get if employer does not have to sponsor WP).

You may argue that A should move to HSMP - however, not all will qualify under HSMP and HO have very funny rules for refusing qualified applications!

I am sure, if you go on asking every person, hundreds of such instance will come out.

Think of those Indian doctors, many of whom even bought houses - now suddenly there are being told that unless they can get WP they will have to leave UK.