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mastermind wrote:To clarify what Rolfus means, many countries also issue their own "national" permanent residence permits, which are different from the "Long Term Residence Permit" (LTRP) enacted by the aforementioned EU directive. They are not covered by the directive and usually can not be used to move to another EU country.
In this post Obie pointed out that even the "permanent residence" acquired by family members of EU nationals is worse in this regard than LTRP. (apparently it can't be used to move to another EU country after divorce/separation etc., which is kind of odd though)
Oh I found out I can get LTRP in Finland. But what about dependents with permanent residency? Are they allowed to go with me?mastermind wrote:To clarify what Rolfus means, many countries also issue their own "national" permanent residence permits, which are different from the "Long Term Residence Permit" (LTRP) enacted by the aforementioned EU directive. They are not covered by the directive and usually can not be used to move to another EU country.
In this post Obie pointed out that even the "permanent residence" acquired by family members of EU nationals is worse in this regard than LTRP. (apparently it can't be used to move to another EU country after divorce/separation etc., which is kind of odd though)
It depends on Finnish implementation of directive 2003/109/EC I suppose. (and what kind of permit do you hold if there are different kinds of them in Finland) The directive does not prohibit (if memory serves me right) the states to treat all their "permanent residence permits" as LTRPs. (in other words, to issue "LTRPs" to anyone who is a permanent resident in view of local legislation) It only requires them to issue "Long Term Residence Permits" (LTRPs) to those who lived for five years in the country and satisfy other conditions. AFAIR it also even says that the states can choose to relax the residency and other requirements.tair wrote:So do you mean by having the permanent finnish residence permit, I can not relocate to another EU member state? Or shall I just stay more in Finland and apply for some other permit?
mastermind wrote:It depends on Finnish implementation of directive 2003/109/EC I suppose. (and what kind of permit do you hold if there are different kinds of them in Finland) The directive does not prohibit (if memory serves me right) the states to treat all their "permanent residence permits" as LTRPs. (in other words, to issue "LTRPs" to anyone who is a permanent resident in view of local legislation) It only requires them to issue "Long Term Residence Permits" (LTRPs) to those who lived for five years in the country and satisfy other conditions. AFAIR it also even says that the states can choose to relax the residency and other requirements.tair wrote:So do you mean by having the permanent finnish residence permit, I can not relocate to another EU member state? Or shall I just stay more in Finland and apply for some other permit?
But the problem is that the states can still issue distinct "permanent residence permits" under their own legislation (or another EU directive like 2004/38/EC as I mentioned before) which are not covered by the aforementioned directive (and at least several states do AFAIK), so no right to move to another EU country to holders of those.
I suppose the best course of action is to ask Finnish authorities who issued you with your permit or/and the prospective receiving country.
Excellent. This is what I was looking for. I will now continue searching on how directive is implemented in Spain. Thanks a lot!mastermind wrote:No, you do not have to start from scratch. The new host member state should "exchange" your existing LTRP for it's own on expedited basis. (read the directive for details) However you might run into problems as some states are apparently in no rush to properly enforce the law. See my post in the following topic for example: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#294635
The guy I mentioned there eventually resolved his problem via SOLVIT but it took a long time. (See also this topic on making SOLVIT more useful http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=66601 )
Seems that I need to talk to Spanish authorities.tair wrote:Excellent. This is what I was looking for. I will now continue searching on how directive is implemented in Spain. Thanks a lot!mastermind wrote:No, you do not have to start from scratch. The new host member state should "exchange" your existing LTRP for it's own on expedited basis. (read the directive for details) However you might run into problems as some states are apparently in no rush to properly enforce the law. See my post in the following topic for example: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#294635
The guy I mentioned there eventually resolved his problem via SOLVIT but it took a long time. (See also this topic on making SOLVIT more useful http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=66601 )
Hi all, just to clarify: According to EU law someone with a residence permit in accordance with directive 2003/109/EC can indeed move to another EU country (that is a member to the directive). This gives you an automatic right to live there and obtain a residence permit from the country you're moving to.AsturiasOrBust wrote:Theoretically, according to this directive, someone with an EU long-term resident permit should be able to move to and work in another EU country (excluding UK, Ireland and Denmark).
You are mistaken. It does. Part 19 of the Directive's preamble says:Stefan-TR wrote:The directive does NOT give you an automatic right to work.
Also Article 15 ("Conditions for residence in a second Member State") obviously implies right to work or be self employed.Provision should be made that the right of residence in
another Member State may be exercised in order to work
in an employed or self-employed capacity, to study or
even to settle without exercising any form of economic
activity.
Have you also seen Article 14 (3) and (4)?mastermind wrote:You are mistaken. It does.Stefan-TR wrote:The directive does NOT give you an automatic right to work.
Ops... You and Stefan-TR are right. There might be restrictions.86ti wrote:Have you also seen Article 14 (3) and (4)?mastermind wrote:You are mistaken. It does.Stefan-TR wrote:The directive does NOT give you an automatic right to work.
And some countries have done their best to make this Directive virtually ineffective. Whether that's right or not I can't tell but it's the reality.mastermind wrote:Ops... You and Stefan-TR are right. There might be restrictions.86ti wrote:Have you also seen Article 14 (3) and (4)?mastermind wrote:You are mistaken. It does.Stefan-TR wrote:The directive does NOT give you an automatic right to work.