British citizen's Child's nationality confirmation!

[ppron747]

The so-called personal description form seems also to be an invention of the BHC in New Delhi. I therefore cannot comment on it - other than to say that AFAIK, every other British passport-issuing office in the world seems to get along fine without it....

[British]

Absolutely true. I really wish we decided to have our daughter's birth in the UK

The only reason for our decision to have it India was to ensure she gets proper care all teh time until delivery!

I am a working person and i travel to my work which is about 25 mile saway from home and my wife is a housewife and we are just two of us in the UK and no friends nearby and no relatives at all!

We thought, in case if she needed some quick help, it would be very difficult fo rher to manage it by herself, considering i have to drive about more than half hour from my work (driving alone takes that ime) even if i had to attend her urgently!

Anyway, I will never advise anybody (who would ask my suggestion) to apply for a child's British passport in India. Its not worth the time.

Oh dear!!!!

If i ever end up getting the British passport for my daughter, I think i will feel like having won a 100 millions worth Euro millions lottery!

[British]

Hi John, ppron,

I was wondering if it was easy compared to the status-quo of applying in India, if i applied for the Indian passport for my daughter and applied for the ROA visa sticker and then bring her to UK and then apply for British passport in the UK.

What all documents must i get from India if we were apply in UK.

At the moment i have:

1. My British naturalisation certificate
2. My British passport
3. The maraige certificate of my marraige with my wife
4. My daughter's Indian Brith certificate (which clearly describes me and my wife as the parents of my daughter).
5. Family photographs of me, my wife and my child together, ever since her birth (during my frequent trips to India recently).

And i do have British citizens (who are eligible as per the requirements) who know me for more than 2 years personally who will be happy to countersign the child's photograph and also sign saying they know me for more than 2 years.

Do i need to register her birth with British consulate in India (i wonder what procedures that is going to bring on us by UK New Delhi consulate ) and also get her British style brith certificate too?

We will still try the British passport application in India, but if it means too much time/money/energy to be spent, we may drop that idea at some point in time.

[ppron747]

What did the FCO's passport policy section have to say about it when you spoke to them this afternoon?

[British]

A no-good answer. We have been asked to give it a try with all documentation we have with us now, sice they cannot deal with specific questions without actually seeing our application.

I am in complete dis-belief of all this. But anyway, we have to get the travel document for our daughter soon, so either this or an Indian pasport will have to be applied. I am getting sick and tired of accumulating and completing the British passport application releated forms (not only the Form C2), with so many un-answerd questions which even the HC in New delhi are not capable of answering (cosnidering its all their own designed forms / procedures).

I will now have to post / courier my cancelled Indian passport over to my wife in India, since they have asked for this too along with the application.

Looks like getting the Indian passport is the easiest route, but we will complete the British passport documentation as much as we can and send it off to New Delhi and wait for the outcome and then if that does not work well, then we will apply for Indian passport and an ROA sticker and see if we can apply for the British passport once I bring my daughter to UK.

[mhunjn]

Good, because it doesn't work like that in North; neither on birth certificates or on any official documents.

Anyway, that aside, hope you get your kid's documents sorted, looks like the BHC in India is trying very hard not to be helpful! Good Luck!

But i cannot vouch this happening in the entire India.

Also, do check with the IHC that you can send your Indian ppt by post, the last time I checked, it was illegal to do so (however in case of a valid ppt).

Also, if you are from South, can't you check the process with the BHC in Madras?... Maybe they'll be more helpful?

[British]

Cheers mhunjn.

Thanks for that point. I checked with IHC and they have confirmed that sending out the cancelled indian passport via international post is not allowed.

This only means i will need to fly to India to hand over my cancelled Indian passports to my wife in Chennai

Also we spoke to UK HC in Chennai, and they said they will not entertain any British passport application there. The only place that is processing this in India is New Delhi UK HC.

[/quote]

[mhunjn]

Seems like the best option for you is to travel to India. Might be tedious, but will serve you in the longer time frame.

Good Luck.

[JAJ]

Contact the FCO's passport policy section as already suggested

It might also be an option for the original poster to contact his Member of Parliament - an MP can write to the Foreign Secretary and ask for the policy at the BHC in New Delhi to be reviewed.

[British]

Cheers JAJ.

Well, contacting the MP in UK and asking them to review the India based UK consulate's processes, will all be a long term proces, may be it will work, but certainly not a correct solution for spening my time/money for getting my daughter's passport (that she is immediately eligible under law) in the next few weeks - otherwise it will delay her and my wife coming to UK, which again will result in issues for my wife's ILR next year

What we have decided is this: Since there are several vague questions in several of these forms we are supposed to fill up and send along with Form C2 (especially this Personal description form - like i had described earlier, it is absolutely not clear whose information goes in where, when especially the cover note for the pack completely gives us wrong information compared to what we would expect to fill up in that form), we will simply create a cover note document explaining why we have filled up certain of these form's questions with our answers vis-a-vis the vauge and unclear and lack of guidance notes for several question in these forms, and then apply the Form C2 for our daughter's British passport and then wait and see what they do.

Since its very clear to us (because they told us so!) that even the BHC in New Delhi did not know the correct answers to their own forms and questions, i guess they should be OK processing our application along with the cover note (explaining what we have answered to the best of our knowledge, for the questions and forms that are absolutely vague).

If even after that they don't accept our application, then i guess i will have to take it up with my MP in UK and side-by-side apply for an Indian passport and ROA sticker for my daughter, so that while my MP deals with my request, at least my wife and daughter can to come to UK.

Then irrespective of whether my MP solves this issue or not in the near future, I can anwyay register my daughter as British citizen in the UK (once she is here with her Indian passport and ROA sticker) and apply for her British passport in the UK (which i understand is a simple process!).

Best of lucks to me.

[JAJ]

Then irrespective of whether my MP solves this issue or not in the near future, I can anwyay register my daughter as British citizen in the UK (once she is here with her Indian passport and ROA sticker) and apply for her British passport in the UK (which i understand is a simple process!).

You cannot register your daughter as a British citizen because she already is one. Her British passport should normally be enough to confirm her status.

However, in order to prevent her experiencing hassle/delay renewing her passport later in life, it is strongly recommended that you obtain a British consular birth certificate from the British High Commission in New Delhi.

It would also make life easier for her in some other countries, in may situation British civil documentation (such as birth cert) is accepted with greater weight than equivalent Indian documentation.

[British]

Hi JAJ: You say this:

"You cannot register your daughter as a British citizen because she already is one. Her British passport should normally be enough to confirm her status. "

I agree to that point that she is already a British citizen at this moment, but if you read what i am saying, you will be clear that once i get her an Indian passport she automatically loses her British citizenship, but then she can be entitled to be registered as a British citizen (I think!) and then once i apply for her British passport (easily when in UK) she will have to surrender her Indian citizenship and get her Indian passport cancelled too.

"Her British passport should normally be enough to confirm her status."

That is the issue here and the whole point about this post. We are currently struggling to get her, her British passport (which she is entitled to!) because of too much of non-sensical beurocracy and pathetic quality of Forms and procedures that is in place with British high commission in New Delhi.

That is the whole point. If the process was easy, we would have applied for her British passport by now and will be planning her comming to the UK The question about getting her the Indian passport and an ROA sticker would never arise in that case.

But it is not a very easy process to apply for British passport for minors in BHC, New Delhi, as you can see from this entire thread's dicsussions. There are Forms and procedures which are horribly vague/unclear, and when we contacted BHC, they themselves were not sure what to fill up and asked us to simply try and see what happens! Pathetic situation at BHC in New Delhi (no disrespect meant to BHC, but i keep saying these because i am simpy frustrated to the core!)


Hope you understand my issue now.

[ppron747]

The UK has had no general objection to dual nationality for about 57 years. NO British citizen loses that status on acquisition of the citizenship of another country.

[British]

Well, that may be true, but as for the Indian govt. is concerned, once I apply for Indian passport for my daughter, she cannot enjoy another citizenship parelely.

Since i have to get one or the other travel document for her to travel to UK, i have to get her the Indian passport which is a very stragiht forward process vis-a-vis the British one.

So from what you are sayig, she retains her British status anyway, so all i need to do is to get her the ROA sticker and come to UK and apply for her British passport once in UK, straight-away, no need for any other registration etc.

That's good then.

But i know that to get the UK style birth certificate, its the same process (applying with that horrible set of vague documents like Personal description forms, etc) which i would like to avoid - because if I have to go through the same process to get the UK style birth certificate, i might very well apply for her British passport itself, straight-away!

I have confirmation fro British HC in New Delhi that the process and additional forms to get the British style birth certificate is also the same. So that's a nightmare too.

I will post here the BHC web site link regarding applying for British style Birth certificate soon. You will amazed to see that that list the same as for applying for her British passport.

Would i not be able to apply for her British passport once she is in the UK, without her British style brith certificate from India?

[JAJ]

Well, that may be true, but as for the Indian govt. is concerned, once I apply for Indian passport for my daughter, she cannot enjoy another citizenship parelely.

The Indian government can say what it likes about this, however India has no jurisdiction over who is a British citizen.

So from what you are sayig, she retains her British status anyway, so all i need to do is to get her the ROA sticker and come to UK and apply for her British passport once in UK, straight-away, no need for any other registration etc.

Correct.

But i know that to get the UK style birth certificate, its the same process (applying with that horrible set of vague documents like Personal description forms, etc) which i would like to avoid - because if I have to go through the same process to get the UK style birth certificate, i might very well apply for her British passport itself, straight-away!

I have confirmation fro British HC in New Delhi that the process and additional forms to get the British style birth certificate is also the same. So that's a nightmare too.

I will post here the BHC web site link regarding applying for British style Birth certificate soon. You will amazed to see that that list the same as for applying for her British passport.

Would i not be able to apply for her British passport once she is in the UK, without her British style brith certificate from India?

Her British syle birth certificate will make things easier. Without it, processes like getting a passport will always take longer. And you don't really want her to be in a mess later in life if she needs a passport quickly and can't obtain one at short notice because everything needs to be double-checked.

Again the solution is to make the application for the UK style birth certificate, and if it's unreasonably refused, then you bring pressure to bear on the Foreign Office through your Member of Parliament.

[British]

Cheers JAJ. Since it looks like it is best to apply for and get her UK style birth certificate, and since the process is same as applying for the British passport, i will try my patience as much as i can and apply for her British passport itself along with the application for the British style brith certificate.

Also one other question: Is it not possoible for us to get her UK style birth certificate later, maybe next year, if we go for the Indian passport + RAO sticker route.

i.e. we could get her Indian passport + ROA, then come to UK and apply for her British passport (yes, it will take some time because we will not have her British style birth certificate) then once we get the passport done, we could apply for her British style birth certificate once we go to India next year on holidays. That way, even if it took a long time because of this beuracrcy, it is OK we can wait for it to come through since we will have her British passport anyway, and we won't have anything to lose in waiting for her British style Birth certificate even if it takes time to come through.

Sorry for too many sub-questions

Thanks for your help and time on this.

[JAJ]

i.e. we could get her Indian passport + ROA, then come to UK and apply for her British passport (yes, it will take some time because we will not have her British style birth certificate) then once we get the passport done, we could apply for her British style birth certificate once we go to India next year on holidays.

But wouldn't you have to get the ROA stamp from the BHC in New Delhi? So wouldn't you have the same problem?

I would think it would be easier just to apply for the birth cert & British passport. If they delay too long, or if they refuse it, then go and see your Member of Parliament immediately.

[British]

"But wouldn't you have to get the ROA stamp from the BHC in New Delhi? So wouldn't you have the same problem?"

No, that is where the good news is!

From what i have heard from them recently, based on my naturalisation certificate, copy of my notarised British passport, Marraige certificate etc (no need for her Brtish style birth certificate here though ) we could apply and get her ROA sticker from VFS - a separate de-centralised specialised office and that too locally in Chennai, that is responsible for issuing UK visas. So we don;t have to apply to BHC in New Delhi

In fact the ROA idea itself comes from what one person from BHC asked us to do when we asked all our questions/clarifications and he was overwhelmed with the confusion around the forms/procedudures and vagueness that sorrounds the British passport/Birth certificate application process.

So we were told we could get out this mess by not having to deal with BHC and all these non-sensical forms and process!

But like you said, we will first try our best to get the British pasport/UK style Birth certificate done but if it does not come easy, then we will try and contact our MP here and may be go for the Indian Passport + ROA route.

[mhunjn]

You do realise that the VFS send all the documentation to the regional BHC for all processing?... VFS do not and cannot process anything at all.
They do not have any authority to issue visas.
The only purpose of their existence is to help applicants by cutting out all non-essential travel to the regional BHC in person unless specifically required to do so.

get her ROA sticker from VFS - a separate de-centralised specialised office and that too locally in Chennai, that is responsible for issuing UK visas. So we don;t have to apply to BHC in New Delhi

[British]

I agree, but the form and the guidance notes for ROA sticker is very clear (at least as of now )

It needs these:

1. My naturalisation certifiacte in original - I have given this to my wife, during my last visit to India.
2. A copy of my British passport (UK notarised copy is enough!) - no problems, i have sent it to my wife!
3. Our Marraige certificate in original - no problems, my wife has it.
4. Indian Birth certificate showing the name of the baby, and its parents (i.e. me and my wife).

That is all to it.

Even if this application needs to go to regiona BHC, the BCH should not be asking us more documents (i pray!) than what is asked for in the application form and guidance notes.

Also VFS does one other job before it send teh application pack to BHC - it verifies that the ROA application form's "required" documents are all there in the application package. Since the VFS have confirmed to us that the above documents are the only ones needed, i guess (again, i am praying!) we should be fine

So no need for these following additional documents (unlike for an application for British passport/UK style birth certificate in India):

My cancelled original Indian passport;
My daughter's UK style birth certificate;
Any counter-signature and the related mess (please read my earlier messages as to what i am talking about here)
Any "Personal description" form or "parental declaration" forms with horrible confusion around whose details needs to go where. (again, please read my earlier messages as to what i am talking about here)
Loads of other stuff, like Family photographs of me/my wife and my daughter in the photo ever since her birth. Also one other issue here was that they needed a specifica number of photos per month (ever since her brith day)! These are ridiculous requirements, considering I am working in the UK and my wife is in India with my new born daughter.
And loads of other documents, which were practically very difficult to gather. One example is that they wanted to see a letter from Indian government saying my wife holds only the Indian citizenship. When we asked the Indian govt. they clearly decliined to give such documents because there were no such practise.

If there were no such mess like the above, for British passport/UK style birth certificate, we would have gone for that rather than ROA. But you see...

[PASS]

British,

A. British passport/ citizenship
B. Indian passport/ citizenship

If you go for 'A' first and your effort is complicated, then you want to proceed with B - is not so straightforward as you think. Although, your daughter is eligible for 'B' by birth and one of the parent is an Indian

http://www.mha.nic.in/citizenship/acquisition.htm

You need to submit all evidences that you have not registered for/or obtained UK passport based on father's citizenship. If you have made your application (before) to BHC,then, you might have to submit evidence from BHC, ND that 'the child has not acquired B citizenship by any means. For an indian child passport, if one of the child's parent is not Indian, then also, you may need to submit your details. I may be wrong, but check with Indian Passport authority first 'what you need for your daughter's passport application'.

Better would go for either A or B, not mixing up both for convenience. B may be a better option, because you get Indian citizenship for your daughter under your circumstances. Plus, although, you later or soon renounce her Indian Citizenship, she still has the automatic option to get back Indian Citizenship by right at 18 years (when the child is capable of taking her own dicision as per Indian law I believe).

[mr_pankaj]

Hi British,

Could you please update us as to what was the outcome as I have been gatherLOT of information from your experience there ......

My wife and I were considering delivering in India (for the same reason you thought), but it looks like it can become an issue post-delivery while applying for the British passport on the same grounds. i.e. me being British citizen and my wife being an ILR. Even not sure what would happen to my wife's ILR if she decides to be away from UK for around 6 months - any ideas ?

thank you

[British]

Hi,

I have updated the status-quo on these threads:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... highlight=

Hope this will be useful to you.

Thanks.