UK Family Visitor Visa Refusal for Mother-in-law

[Zee_Zee]

Hi,

I desperately need some expert advice on this. My mother-in-law
applied for family visitor visa from Karachi, Pakistan in February 2010.

She got refusal last week and the reasons given are as under:

- You claim to be retired and state that you receive a pension of Rs. xxx per month. However, your claimed income is not reflected in your bank statement which shows deposits in excess of your stated monthly income. I note that on dd/mm/yyyy you appear to have deposited Rs. yyy into your account. In the absence of evidence of the source of these funds I cannot be satisfied they are genuinely available for your use.

- You claim to have made available Rs. xxx of your own money to spend on your visit to the UK. I do not consider the proposed expenditure to be proportionate to your economic circumstances, particularly in view of the fact that you have failed to substantiate your circumstances through satisfactory documentary evidence.

- You've declared that you wish to visit your son in law, and that he will
maintain and accommodate you. The documents you have presented do not establish that your sponsor can do this. I note the bank statement you have provided on behalf of your sponsor, however, you have failed to provide full evidence of your sponsor's income, financial commitments & personal circumstances. In view of the lack evidence about your sponsor's ability I'm not satisfied that you or your sponsor will be able to maintain and accommodate you without employment and without recourse to public funds.


Can anyone recommend whether to make a new application or go for appeal? I'm confused because I'm certain that we already provided all possible proofs for example:

1) 1 year Bank statement of applicant. Big deposit was only the one received on retirement and also pension payments are
shown on monthly basis. The deposit they're referring to was again withdrawn 2 months later and that is also reflected on the statement. That deposit was actually my money received from selling car and I took it once I visited Pakistan after 2 months. So, the question of having that deposit amount available becomes void.
2) Property documents
3) Rental contract (to show income from rent)
4) Mentioned all family members living in house owned by the applicant.
5) Many other documents to prove family ties
Documents that I sent as sponsor:
6) Last 3 months bank statement showing balance in access of GBP 5k
7) Last 3 months salary slips
8 ) Letter from employer that I'm in full time employment
9) Letter from letting agency that I've got land lady's permission to accommodate guests.
10) Description of flat I'm renting that we have two bedrooms and only me and my wife
are occupants.
11) Latest utility bill with both my and my wife's name on it.


Can anyone please advise based upon similar experiences?

[navnas]

Hi,

I desperately need some expert advice on this. My mother-in-law
applied for family visitor visa from Karachi, Pakistan in February 2010.

She got refusal last week and the reasons given are as under:

- You claim to be retired and state that you receive a pension of Rs. xxx per month. However, your claimed income is not reflected in your bank statement which shows deposits in excess of your stated monthly income. I note that on dd/mm/yyyy you appear to have deposited Rs. yyy into your account. In the absence of evidence of the source of these funds I cannot be satisfied they are genuinely available for your use.

- You claim to have made available Rs. xxx of your own money to spend on your visit to the UK. I do not consider the proposed expenditure to be proportionate to your economic circumstances, particularly in view of the fact that you have failed to substantiate your circumstances through satisfactory documentary evidence.

- You've declared that you wish to visit your son in law, and that he will
maintain and accommodate you. The documents you have presented do not establish that your sponsor can do this. I note the bank statement you have provided on behalf of your sponsor, however, you have failed to provide full evidence of your sponsor's income, financial commitments & personal circumstances. In view of the lack evidence about your sponsor's ability I'm not satisfied that you or your sponsor will be able to maintain and accommodate you without employment and without recourse to public funds.


Can anyone recommend whether to make a new application or go for appeal? I'm confused because I'm certain that we already provided all possible proofs for example:

1) 1 year Bank statement of applicant. Big deposit was only the one received on retirement and also pension payments are
shown on monthly basis. The deposit they're referring to was again withdrawn 2 months later and that is also reflected on the statement. That deposit was actually my money received from selling car and I took it once I visited Pakistan after 2 months. So, the question of having that deposit amount available becomes void.
2) Property documents
3) Rental contract (to show income from rent)
4) Mentioned all family members living in house owned by the applicant.
5) Many other documents to prove family ties
Documents that I sent as sponsor:
6) Last 3 months bank statement showing balance in access of GBP 5k
7) Last 3 months salary slips
8 ) Letter from employer that I'm in full time employment
9) Letter from letting agency that I've got land lady's permission to accommodate guests.
10) Description of flat I'm renting that we have two bedrooms and only me and my wife
are occupants.
11) Latest utility bill with both my and my wife's name on it.


Can anyone please advise based upon similar experiences?

This is indeed sad ! what's your current immigration status ??

[Zee_Zee]

I'm here on HSMP from past 3 years ad now with around 2 years remaining on my current visa after which I should qualify for ILR.

[batleykhan]

You have made the same mistake most people make in that you have not explained the large sums of deposits in your parents account.

It is common practice of Pakistani applicants to put large deposits in their accounts a few months prior to applying without giving an explanation as to where that money has come from in the first place, thus resulting in what has happened to here.

Furthermore I am not aware of your personal circumstances, but it appears from the ECO that he is not satisfied that you can support and maintain your parents if they do come here. So you have to think about that as well.

I would not bother appealing as its to time consuming and its very unlikely that the ECO will change his mind.

My option would be to reapply again and give a detailed explanation on the the reasons you were refused so the ECO is fully aware of how these things came about in the first place.

[Zee_Zee]

Many thanks for your response on this. I'm also thinking about re-applying but:
(1) We explained the large sums of money where they came as gratuity on retirement.
(2) The deposit they specifically mentioned was explained because that was withdrawn 2 months later and that was also visible in the bank statement we provided.
(3) About my circumstances, I'm more than convinced that there shouldn't be any problem for me to support my visitor because if I provided my proofs of income, have approx GBP 5.5k in my current (only bank account) and submitted my bank statement.
(4) All my monthly outgoings and income are already reflected in the bank statement where my bank balance is not falling below 5k mark.

Can you suggest any other proofs to justify my financial position and the fact that I don't owe money to anyone and never missed any payment whatsoever.

Thanks for your help.

[navnas]

You've declared that you wish to visit your son in law, and that he will
maintain and accommodate you. The documents you have presented do not establish that your sponsor can do this. I note the bank statement you have provided on behalf of your sponsor, however, you have failed to provide full evidence of your sponsor's income, financial commitments & personal circumstances. In view of the lack evidence about your sponsor's ability I'm not satisfied that you or your sponsor will be able to maintain and accommodate you without employment and without recourse to public funds.

This is really harsh as i believe you would not have taken any public funds yourself so neither should be the case if your family visitor comes in . I believe all your outgoings and incomings are being reflected in your bank statement ,,,isn't it???

for how many months stay did your mother in law indicated in the applications form and your invitation letter ??? if that was for the whole 6 months i can see there is a little doubt if 5k is enough or not otherwise i can't see any reason why not ....

[Zee_Zee]

Thanks for your response navnas. Relying on public funds is not an option for me and I never even thought about depending on public funds. My wife is also employed full time and we didn't experience any financial hardships here.

To answer your questions: Yes, all incomings and outgoings are reflected on my bank statement as this is the only bank account I operate and this is my salary account.

We mentioned 3-4 weeks as intended duration of visit in both the application form and invitation letter.

And I'm still not sure what additional proofs can I include if we re-apply. We can just explain in words about the deposit that it was later withdrawn and that it doesn't contribute towards available funds for the trip. But to prove my ability to support and maintain my visitors, I really have no idea what else to include.

[navnas]

If i were you ...i would have opted to go for appeal here in UK ....

i will say dont leave it and just appeal against it ... i know some of my friends who got their appeals approved ....

i can't see you re-applying with the same circumstances again ...that will be a waste of time for you ....unless you have some new supporting docs/material etc

did you indicated in the letter that you will be bearing all the expense's including travel ??

[Zee_Zee]

I also thought about appeal being a better option but it takes longer. And I don't know any appeal where the applicant got his visa stamped in less than 4 month's time. And I don't want to wait that long.

Documents will unfortunately stay the same but I can add a few things like salary slips, bank statements for 6 months this time instead of 3. Also, I'm thinking of including credit card statements for past 6 months to show that I pay my balance in full on monthly basis.

I did mention about spending up to 4k towards her visit but didn't specifically mentioned about traveling cost though. In her application form, she mentioned that she'll be bearing her expenses for the trips. And I mentioned that I'll accommodate and support her stay here and can spend up to 4k for this.

[batleykhan]

We mentioned 3-4 weeks as intended duration of visit in both the application form and invitation letter

In her application form, she mentioned that she'll be bearing her expenses for the trips. And I mentioned that I'll accommodate and support her stay here and can spend up to 4k for this.

No disrespect to you, but if I was an ECO and looking at your mother in laws application which states that she is in receipt of state pension ( how much is a widows pension per monthin Pak - topside 5000Rs per month???) and she wants to come for 3-4 weeks and she has £4000 to spend on the visit.

To me that works out nearly a thousand pound per week. How many widows from Pakistan do this?. In my opinion very very few. This leads to believe that your MOI application just doesnt add up.

As to the other respond you have recievd from Navnas who says appeal and that you most ikely to suceed. I agree that if yiou went through the full procedure ( will take aout 12 months and about £500 - 750 solicitors costs) you will win your case,but the question is do you want to do that?

IMHO I think you should reapply again and more a less send the same documents,but give a clear cocise and precise responses to the points that she was refused. I think it will make the ECO think twice before refsusing it agian now that he is fully aware of all the circumstances.

[Zee_Zee]

I respect your opinion. Times have changed and my mother-in-law was herself retired from a Government job and gets an OK amount as pension. I'm not saying that it is around GBP 1k per week but it is not even Rs. 5k a month.

And GBP 4k for her visit were mentioned as maximum amount that can be spent towards the trip. May be we were mistaken to mention additional amount to show ability to afford in case of emergency.

Thanks for your kind advice to go for a fresh application. I'm also asking her to make a fresh application otherwise we'll have to plan for next summers if we take the appeal route.

[abulotus]

Zee_Zee .. any updates on ur Mother-in-law application? has she been granted a visa?

[Zee_Zee]

Yes Abulotus, she was granted visa after 2nd attempt. I completely forgot updating this post. She got visa in June and traveled and now back in Pakistan after staying here for just over 2 months.

[kck9]

Hi Zee_Zee,
Did she provided the photocopies or originals of her bank statements and property documents.

Is it compulsory to produce the originals

Thnx

[Zee_Zee]

Bank statement, definitely original and almost all other documents. However, for property documents she provided attested photocopies as you may know what happens if they get lost.

[alex2011]

Hi Zee Zee
How long before you can re-aply for a family visa, my wifes mum was refused today, she handed in no documents to the Embassy. Her own fault.

Best Regards

Alex

Thanks for your response navnas. Relying on public funds is not an option for me and I never even thought about depending on public funds. My wife is also employed full time and we didn't experience any financial hardships here.

To answer your questions: Yes, all incomings and outgoings are reflected on my bank statement as this is the only bank account I operate and this is my salary account.

We mentioned 3-4 weeks as intended duration of visit in both the application form and invitation letter.

And I'm still not sure what additional proofs can I include if we re-apply. We can just explain in words about the deposit that it was later withdrawn and that it doesn't contribute towards available funds for the trip. But to prove my ability to support and maintain my visitors, I really have no idea what else to include.

[geriatrix]

How long before you can re-aply for a family visa, my wifes mum was refused today, she handed in no documents to the Embassy. Her own fault.

Any time the applicant wishes to (apply again).

[alex2011]

How long before you can re-aply for a family visa, my wifes mum was refused today, she handed in no documents to the Embassy. Her own fault.

Any time the applicant wishes to (apply again).

Hi sushdmehta
Thanks for your quick reply.

[alex2011]

How long before you can re-aply for a family visa, my wifes mum was refused today, she handed in no documents to the Embassy. Her own fault.

Any time the applicant wishes to (apply again).

Hi
I need to ask a quick question, I am self employed and my accounts need to be done, i have to send all my origional payslips off to the accountant, what documents do i have to supply for my wifes mum to visit us for 2 months.

Also they want to see that my wife has been in touch with her mum, we uses phone cards and skype but have never kept the phone cards

Thanks

Alex

[rashidkhan]

Yes Abulotus, she was granted visa after 2nd attempt. I completely forgot updating this post. She got visa in June and traveled and now back in Pakistan after staying here for just over 2 months.

Hi Zee Zee, did she re-apply or did she appeal? Thanks

[tier1entrepreneur]

Hi Guys,

I am planning to invite my parents to visit me to UK as my wife is expecting next month. They visited me already in 2011 but the situation is bit different now as i have applied for Tier1 entrepreneur visa and decision is till pending. As the requirement is they have to provide my visa copy as well and i dont have one until i get my passport back. I applied my visa in september last year.
Please note i am not sponsoring them i will only provide them an accomodation as my Dad will bear all the expenses and he has a good financial statement to prove that.
I have consulted someone and he said do not worry about the visa copy just provide the tanency agreement and a copy of your driving license. plust NHS documents to show my wife is expecting next month and we both live alone here.
is it neccesary to provide a visa copy or in this situation as i am still waiting for my visa my parents cannot come and visit me on this special ocassion.

Please advise.

[troy]

Hi,
Can anyone please confirm whether land registry, property deed etc need to be translated by an independent translator if they are not in English? It is difficult to get these translated as there are quite a lot of pages and also it is difficult to find a suitable translator.

Please let me know if you can.

Thank you,
Troy

[troy]

Anyone ? Please let me know about the translation (see my previous post)