Can I return to the UK with family court contact order?

[Chachi]

HI All

I have a rather messed up immigration history and I was hoping for some information and advice to help my situation. I am a new comer and hope I am posting in the right place. I did do a search for "contact order" before posting and nothing came up - so I hope this topic hasn't been covered elsewhere!

I came to the UK in 1999 from Indonesia as a student. I met my partner and moved in with him after some time. I successfully renewed my student visa until 2001 when I gave birth to our child.

I overstayed in the UK after 2001 when my student visa expired and remained an over stayer until 2004. My mother in Indonesia was dying so I voluntarily returned to Indonesia and have remained there since.

Since 2004, I have applied for entry clearance as a spouse (my partner came to Indonesia and we were married here).

My application was refused on the basis that I had overstayed.

I then changed my name (i guess fraudulently - but i was desperate) and reapplied as a fresh application with a new identity. The application was rejected again on the basis that - on my application I said that I had never been to the UK before or been refused entry whereas the UKBA database held matching finger print data showing that I had been in the UK before.

Also – the ECO said that he didn't believe our marriage was genuine. Our marriage is genuine and we have kept our relationship going since I left.

So since – my husband and I have been trying to get a divorce in Indonesia so that I can start again and re-marry under my genuine name and re-apply. However – it has been over 7 years now that we have been in this mess. I realise that I made some mistakes. And I realise that if we had got immigration advice from the beginning then the situation might be different.

However the position I am in now is that I have physically seen my son only 3 times in the last 7 years and I am likely if I see my husband once a year (its very expensive to travel to Indonesia from the UK and he is trying to save money to fit the maintenance requirements of the rules).

Currently the Indonesian Courts are being very difficult about allowing my divorce. Its been 2 years since I files for it and they are refusing on the basis that they dont feel there has been enough evidence to suggest that we should be entitled to one.

We were never married in the UK and didnt regsiter our marriage in the UK and therefore cant divorce in the UK.

I was thinking about getting a contact order for my Son as he is a British Citizen and has lived his whole life in the UK. He cant come in live in Indonesia as then he would be without his father and he would be starting life again in another country different language etc etc.

I was wondering whether a contact order would assist with my immigration history? An immigration adviser (level 3) said that once I have a contact order – I would be granted 12 months entry and then, if I could should that I had stayed in contact with my son during that 12 months period – I would get further leave to remain.

Has anyone heard of this? If so – under what section of the rules is it stated and which form should I use?

Also, if this type of entry clearance is available – does my bad immigration history affect my ability to enter again or will enrty clearance be refused despite a contact order?

Many thanks – I hope this atleast makes sense – I desperately need help. I really am suffering now for the mistakes I made in the past and I just want to be with my son again before he grows to old too know or care about me or resent me for not being in his life

many thanks

Chachi

[ajmal]

HI All

I have a rather messed up immigration history and I was hoping for some information and advice to help my situation. I am a new comer and hope I am posting in the right place. I did do a search for "contact order" before posting and nothing came up - so I hope this topic hasn't been covered elsewhere!

I came to the UK in 1999 from Indonesia as a student. I met my partner and moved in with him after some time. I successfully renewed my student visa until 2001 when I gave birth to our child.

I overstayed in the UK after 2001 when my student visa expired and remained an over stayer until 2004. My mother in Indonesia was dying so I voluntarily returned to Indonesia and have remained there since.

Since 2004, I have applied for entry clearance as a spouse (my partner came to Indonesia and we were married here).

My application was refused on the basis that I had overstayed.

I then changed my name (i guess fraudulently - but i was desperate) and reapplied as a fresh application with a new identity. The application was rejected again on the basis that - on my application I said that I had never been to the UK before or been refused entry whereas the UKBA database held matching finger print data showing that I had been in the UK before.

Also – the ECO said that he didn't believe our marriage was genuine. Our marriage is genuine and we have kept our relationship going since I left.

So since – my husband and I have been trying to get a divorce in Indonesia so that I can start again and re-marry under my genuine name and re-apply. However – it has been over 7 years now that we have been in this mess. I realise that I made some mistakes. And I realise that if we had got immigration advice from the beginning then the situation might be different.

However the position I am in now is that I have physically seen my son only 3 times in the last 7 years and I am likely if I see my husband once a year (its very expensive to travel to Indonesia from the UK and he is trying to save money to fit the maintenance requirements of the rules).

Currently the Indonesian Courts are being very difficult about allowing my divorce. Its been 2 years since I files for it and they are refusing on the basis that they dont feel there has been enough evidence to suggest that we should be entitled to one.

We were never married in the UK and didnt regsiter our marriage in the UK and therefore cant divorce in the UK.

I was thinking about getting a contact order for my Son as he is a British Citizen and has lived his whole life in the UK. He cant come in live in Indonesia as then he would be without his father and he would be starting life again in another country different language etc etc.

I was wondering whether a contact order would assist with my immigration history? An immigration adviser (level 3) said that once I have a contact order – I would be granted 12 months entry and then, if I could should that I had stayed in contact with my son during that 12 months period – I would get further leave to remain.

Has anyone heard of this? If so – under what section of the rules is it stated and which form should I use?

Also, if this type of entry clearance is available – does my bad immigration history affect my ability to enter again or will enrty clearance be refused despite a contact order?

Many thanks – I hope this atleast makes sense – I desperately need help. I really am suffering now for the mistakes I made in the past and I just want to be with my son again before he grows to old too know or care about me or resent me for not being in his life

many thanks

Chachi

I think should you should apply spouse visa again on old name as your marriage is also with old name. Did you appeal when they refuse your spouse visa? Why you want divorce?, it will weaken your case

[Chachi]

Hi Amjel

Thanks so much for your reply.

the reason we are getting a divorce is becasue we were married under my new assumed name. An aliase is not allowed in Indonesia and I thought that it would be better to apply to re-enter the UK under my real name - to do this I have to get married again under my real name. and to marry under my real name I need to divorce under the assumed name.

It will be a very very long process which is why I wanted some info on the likelihood of an application to enter under a contact order being successful.

Any ideas?

thanks

chachi

[vinny]

I was wondering whether a contact order would assist with my immigration history? An immigration adviser (level 3) said that once I have a contact order – I would be granted 12 months entry and then, if I could should that I had stayed in contact with my son during that 12 months period – I would get further leave to remain.

See also Can I enter U.K. as my daughter is British Citizen

However, note that

ECOs need to consider whether it is appropriate to refuse the applicant under paragraph 320(11) of the immigration rules where the applicant has “previously contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of the Immigration Rules.â€

[Chachi]

Thank you both so much for your quick replies.

Vinny - i looked at the link you sent about 320 refusals.

what about this link from the same page:

RFL5.4 When does rule 320 (7B) not apply? Rule 320 (7C):

it says:

"Under paragraph 320(7C) of the immigration rules, you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying in the following categories:

.....

Those applying to exercise rights of access to a child (Paragraph 246);

the contact order is for the purpose of excercising my right to access to my son. So wouldnt I be exempt from automatic refusal?

Thank you

And to Ajmal - I did not appeal the decision at the time as I was so stunned and scared that we had been found out and was scared that they would prsecute me for fraudulent possession of an alias identity.

[shahzad80]

Thank you both so much for your quick replies.

Vinny - i looked at the link you sent about 320 refusals.

what about this link from the same page:

RFL5.4 When does rule 320 (7B) not apply? Rule 320 (7C):

it says:

"Under paragraph 320(7C) of the immigration rules, you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying in the following categories:

.....

Those applying to exercise rights of access to a child (Paragraph 246);

the contact order is for the purpose of excercising my right to access to my son. So wouldnt I be exempt from automatic refusal?

Thank you

And to Ajmal - I did not appeal the decision at the time as I was so stunned and scared that we had been found out and was scared that they would prsecute me for fraudulent possession of an alias identity.

One million question is do you have contact order from Family court in England and do you ban period has finished.

Shahzad

[Chachi]

Hi Shahzad

thanks for you reply

I dont have one yet.

I am waiting to see if I can get one. but to pay the fees for a family law UK soliciotrs for a contact order and then still fail with the immigration application doesnt sound sensible.

this is why i am asking whether - if I can get a contact order to see my son - my immigration history will make me fall at the last hurdle or whether I will be exempt from automatic refusal?

Please also bear in mind that the SAME ECO is at Jakarta embassy. He says that the rules say that a different ECO should deal with a repeated application however apparently he is the only case worker there. He dislikes me already (because of the fraud) and I wanted to know whether he will be in a position to refuse my application again IF i had a conatct order?

thank you all so much - im very grateful for the responses so far

Chachi

[Greenie]

Thank you both so much for your quick replies.

Vinny - i looked at the link you sent about 320 refusals.

what about this link from the same page:

RFL5.4 When does rule 320 (7B) not apply? Rule 320 (7C):

it says:

"Under paragraph 320(7C) of the immigration rules, you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying in the following categories:

.....

Those applying to exercise rights of access to a child (Paragraph 246);

the contact order is for the purpose of excercising my right to access to my son. So wouldnt I be exempt from automatic refusal?

.

Yes you're correct that you are exempt from automatic refusal under paragraph 320 (7B) but 320(11) is not an automatic but a discretionary ground for refusal. You may well be refused under 320(11) particularly because of your poor immigration history.

[shahzad80]

Thank you both so much for your quick replies.

Vinny - i looked at the link you sent about 320 refusals.

what about this link from the same page:

RFL5.4 When does rule 320 (7B) not apply? Rule 320 (7C):

it says:

"Under paragraph 320(7C) of the immigration rules, you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying in the following categories:

.....

Those applying to exercise rights of access to a child (Paragraph 246);

the contact order is for the purpose of excercising my right to access to my son. So wouldnt I be exempt from automatic refusal?

.

Yes you're correct that you are exempt from automatic refusal under paragraph 320 (7B) but 320(11) is not an automatic but a discretionary ground for refusal. You may well be refused under 320(11) particularly because of your poor immigration history.

You can not be refused under 320(7B) due to exemption.
The only concerns is 320(11) and other thing

Is yours girl friend willing to give you an affidivat(statement) that you can contact yours child,if yes then you dont need contact order.Simply this sworn statement would be ok.

I have to look for 320(11) in yours case..

Shahzad

[shahzad80]

Hi

320(11): where the applicant has previously contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules. Guidance will be published giving examples of circumstances in which an applicant who has previously overstayed, breached a condition attached to his leave, been an Illegal Entrant or used Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not) is likely to be considered as having contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules.

Shahzad

[Chachi]

Hello all

thank you for your answers

Oh I see now. So basically reagrdless of whether I apply as a spouse or as a person excercising access to my child - then the ECO will reject me under 320(11)?

I know that he will regardless of good representations becasue he is the same person that refused me the 2 previous times and he wil just see this attempt as an underhanded ploy.

The truth of the situation is that I would not have done all this had it not have been for my son.

can I ask therefore the following two questions:

1. Is my application any better as a spouse visa application or an aplication excercising rights to my child? or is there an equal chance of being refused under both?

2. When the application is refused (which it will be under 320(11)), what chances do I have on appeal to succeed?

I will admit to the ID i used and admit that the only reason I did it was to get quicker access to my son which is true. I will admit that I was young (21) when I made the msiatkes as I didnt realise that they were going to affect me for such a long time.

If I come clean - will my appeal have a good chance of succeeding? if not - what should I do?

[shahzad80]

Hello all

thank you for your answers

Oh I see now. So basically reagrdless of whether I apply as a spouse or as a person excercising access to my child - then the ECO will reject me under 320(11)?

I know that he will regardless of good representations becasue he is the same person that refused me the 2 previous times and he wil just see this attempt as an underhanded ploy.

The truth of the situation is that I would not have done all this had it not have been for my son.

can I ask therefore the following two questions:

1. Is my application any better as a spouse visa application or an aplication excercising rights to my child? or is there an equal chance of being refused under both?

2. When the application is refused (which it will be under 320(11)), what chances do I have on appeal to succeed?

I will admit to the ID i used and admit that the only reason I did it was to get quicker access to my son which is true. I will admit that I was young (21) when I made the msiatkes as I didnt realise that they were going to affect me for such a long time.

If I come clean - will my appeal have a good chance of succeeding? if not - what should I do?

If yours marraige is subsisting and yours sponsor is in good financial postion then spouse visa is good option.
If you have no good evidence of marraige or contact(like phone bills,money sent ect) then access to child visa is good.

Both have full right of appeal.


Shahzad