FLR (SPOUSE) got refused, need urgent advice Please

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:24 am

Dear Readers, Can i ask only experienced to answer to my query please as i have been reading many of the answers by people who doesn't know ABC of immigiration(sorry if this offends anyone)
I have been living in uk for nearly 8 years and had been on student visa untill feb 2008 when i made furhter leave to remain in uk for student visa, meanwhile i got married in april 2008 islamically, by the way i am from pakistan and my wife is on indefinite and she is from somalia, Home office refused my Student visa application in march 2009 and aproved my COA in sep 2010 (which i applied for in sep2008) and got registered as married in sep2010. Later then i applied for settement visa which has got refused, which we had feeling already due to me overstaying since my visa got refused, and i am unable to leave UK at the moment because of my wife who is jobless plus have got 1 young baby (1 year) and My wife is now 4 months pregnant, we did mention about article 8 in our application but home office refused without giving the right to appeal, on the basis that article 8 doesnt get effeccted in this case and due to me being over stayed, i am making representation on the 5th of jan.
What would you experts suggest, which will make my case stronger. I can tell you from the bottom of my heart i am being honest that we are not in the position to leave under these mentioned circumstances, please advice us. By the way i am employed and have sent them my bank statement and payslips, on which they didn't say anything.
Awaiting for Your swift reply.
thanks

Post by **Obie** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:43 pm

I strongly believe your first statement will deter lots of people from answering your question. This is not the best approach to take if you wish to get lots of ideas from people. You can get to learn something, if you keep your mind open to the ideas that might seem the most out of place. Even people that have first hand knowledge of your case, or could provide ideas that might be priceless to you, would essentially be discouraged from commenting, for fear that you could label it as rubbish and clue less, or they don't know ABC of immigration rule. Some might view your comment as plainly arrogant, and refrain from commenting at all.

As i see your case, the problem is the lack of leave to remain at the time of application. It would have been wise to maintain your student visa, until you are have obtained a FLR(M).

This has the effect of resulting in an automatic rejection of your application.

Now you say you have shown them payslips of employment, this might not be a good idea either , as it might jeopardize your job, as you currently hold not leave to remain, or Section 3 rights, this mean the HO can target your employer and charge them up to 10K for employing you.

No one can deny you have an article 8 right, or you will not succeed at obtaining an Entry clearance as the Spouse of a Settled person, however the UKBA can argue that there is no obstacle to you applying from Pakistan, or that you and your wife can settle there. Had both of you originated from Somalia, and she acquired a refugee status, it would have been argued that it is not reasonable or proportional to expect you to settle there or to apply for an entry clearance from there, in light of the circumstance there. However the same might not be the case with Pakistan.

You have factors in your favour, like the young child and the pregnancy in place, and the fact that you will not be able to secure Entry clearance, due to her condition and the fact she is unemployed, and this will affect your family life here, the fact that it will not be practical for her to relocate to Pakistan, for any reasons such as, but not limited to, language barrier, if she doesn't speak Urdu or other local languages, or the cultural links . This might meet the Chikwamba threshold

It will be advisable to contact a legal expert in this area.

I am not confident you can explore the family reunification refugee rules on maintenance for entry clearance, as she obtained her ILR before your marriage, if indeed she obtained it through asylum.

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:14 am

Obie wrote:I strongly believe your first statement will deter lots of people from answering your question. This is not the best approach to take if you wish to get lots of ideas from people. You can get to learn something, if you keep your mind open to the ideas that might seem the most out of place. Even people that have first hand knowledge of your case, or could provide ideas that might be priceless to you, would essentially be discouraged from commenting, for fear that you could label it as rubbish and clue less, or they don't know ABC of immigration rule. Some might view your comment as plainly arrogant, and refrain from commenting at all.

Many thanks obie for the reply, and i greatly appreciate your concern regarding above and do take the responsibility of the statement due to my own personal reasons. I have already said i apologise to those who i offended in anyway but i do need the answer from expert like you.
The reason i attached my payslips because i was employed with my employer 5 years ago (when i had legal status) and my solicitor suggested that it would emphasized on the fact that i am able to support my family in this scenario if granted visa, otherwise my wife would be relying on taxpayer money more than what she is right now.
I have read the shikwamba case and shows how HO caseworkers are stuborn(not a new thing to me or others) but when it comes to higher courts they take a lot of things in consideration before making their judgement and most of the time they are very reasonable. My wife is from somalia originally, and came here to seek Asylum, i know the danger if i take her to pakistan due to many other reason but some other reason which i am more concerned is her medical condition as well as social. You are right the language factor is big problem for her. But again as discussed in chikwamba's case that if the applicant has to go back to her country to apply then what on the earth is wrong if she would apply from uk and all that.
Can i ask to make my representation stronger which i am doing through solicitor anyway, what are my solid grounds which will satisfy the caseworker, or this will lead to my removal or going in to court to defend my removal?
I will appreciate your comment on that. thanks

Post by **Obie** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:04 pm

The way i see it, the HO will not issue you a removal direction, as this will lead to a right of appeal under the Human Rights act, which you are likely to win in light of the circumstance.

You can make further representation to them, stating all the reasons and any insurmountable obstacle that would make it unreasonable for you or your spouse to relocate to Pakistan. Any health condition or factors that will make removal disproportionate.

I am sure your lawyer will lead you along the way.

I am not convinced they will issue a removal direction, i don't think they will be eager to issue Leave to remain either, and hence will not issue you a removal direction , which will lead to a right of appeal.

If you wife has a health condition, which makes it unreasonable to travel, you may be issued with leave to remain outside the immigration rules

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Obie wrote: . Any health condition or factors that will make removal disproportionate.

If you wife has a health condition, which makes it unreasonable to travel, you may be issued with leave to remain outside the immigration rules

Her being pregnant and in her 4th month, would class a health condition or not? and I don't think that my wife has any other health issue at the moment. Can I ask you if you could help me please in listing those documents which will help me making my case stronger and what do you think how long would this whole process take?
Is it a good idea to show HO that I have savings or not?
I would definitely appreciate your kind help.
Regards

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:03 pm

Hi, I am in the process to submit representation regarding above, and i have been told by my solicitor that the HO fee will be waved and i will not have to pay Â£500 HO fee since my FLR (M) is already refused for which i have already paid for. Is it correct?

2nd I also have growing concerns regarding HO 's decision in which they said, they do not believe that my right to private family life will be in breached in anyway if i go back to my Home country taking my family with me there and live a life and settle there. As they said my child is only 1 year old and have the ability to adopt the environment and culture there.

3rd what would you advice me if i get my local MP involved in this case? or shall I wait and see the result of representation?

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:36 pm

After reading many posts on this forum I started thinking if I go back to Pakistan and apply for a spouse visa from there provided my wife doesn't work, got 1 year old child and she is due for the 2nd one in June (insha-Allah).
I am a sort of person who doesn't mind being patient in this situation if I wait for a reply from HO for my representation, but what is worrying me at this stage is that what if I have to go back ultimately then what do I have to do? Its been 6 years now since I met my family back home.
Now she doesn't work and claim Housing benefit as I have been working part time through out (Was employed on my student visa) and support myself my wife and my son. How can she sponsor me even or can I get 3rd party sponsor for Spouse visa As we do not have any relative who would sponsor us. Is there any advice you could give me which makes me join my family and live together peacefully.
Your advice is much appreciated.
thanks

ajmal · Post by **ajmal** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:55 pm

r3gistered wrote:After reading many posts on this forum I started thinking if I go back to Pakistan and apply for a spouse visa from there provided my wife doesn't work, got 1 year old child and she is due for the 2nd one in June (insha-Allah).
I am a sort of person who doesn't mind being patient in this situation if I wait for a reply from HO for my representation, but what is worrying me at this stage is that what if I have to go back ultimately then what do I have to do? Its been 6 years now since I met my family back home.
Now she doesn't work and claim Housing benefit as I have been working part time through out (Was employed on my student visa) and support myself my wife and my son. How can she sponsor me even or can I get 3rd party sponsor for Spouse visa As we do not have any relative who would sponsor us. Is there any advice you could give me which makes me join my family and live together peacefully.
Your advice is much appreciated.
thanks

I think you should take the advice given to you by Obie on this forum and this is the best advice in the current circumstances

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:13 am

ajmal wrote: I think you should take the advice given to you by Obie on this forum and this is the best advice in the current circumstances

Thanks ajmal for your swift reply,
Well thats what I have been doing so far but i am getting worried that I can not progress if this continues.

matinuk2 · Post by **matinuk2** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:43 pm

Hi,
I have read your post, there is a longer way for you to stay with your family.
you can wait for your wife to get her British citizenship and then you go back to pakistan and your family move to another EU state and you join them there and live together and settle there or if you still insist to return to UK then it would be under EU law and not British law. in that case she still can claim state benefit as an EU citizen and it's much easier for you to join her and even to move to UK.
Hope this help you.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:04 pm

.............

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:43 am

shahzad80 wrote:
I think you need good legal reprentation and in my advice should make an application on human right artcile8 quoting Chikwamba case law.

Not easy thing to do..to be honest.

Shahzad

My lawyer did mention the article 8 in initial settlement application upon which HO responded nowhere article 8 is in breach if I am send back to my home country along with my wife and kid. We challenged this and see what HO comes back with. But i think HO will not consider our right to private family life, when these case workers make up their mind to judge the cases within the law then they completely ignore the exceptional situations, but that is what a test from Allah and we should be prepared for hard tests, Which i am. thanks a lot for all of you who kindly responded to my messages.
Bless you all

Post by **Obie** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:53 am

Also see the 5 stages process in Article 8 cases, and see if you can qualify under them.

I am sure your options will increase significiantly if your spouse was to be naturalised, as previously suggested by another contributor, should your futher evidence under Article8 not reap much dividend.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:34 pm

...............

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:41 am

Obie wrote:Also see the 5 stages process in Article 8 cases, and see if you can qualify under them.

I am sure your options will increase significiantly if your spouse was to be naturalised, as previously suggested by another contributor, should your futher evidence under Article8 not reap much dividend.

Thanks obie, i think your advice that my wife should apply for naturalisation, sounds really good. she has started preparing for test already.
Just a question here once she pass this and apply for naturalisation, how would this help me? and thanks for the link which I have read shows there are good chances of getting successful but it will require a lot of time and perhaps end up getting visa through the court.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:58 am

Obie wrote:The way i see it, the HO will not issue you a removal direction, as this will lead to a right of appeal under the Human Rights act, which you are likely to win in light of the circumstance.

You can make further representation to them, stating all the reasons and any insurmountable obstacle that would make it unreasonable for you or your spouse to relocate to Pakistan. Any health condition or factors that will make removal disproportionate.

I am sure your lawyer will lead you along the way.

I am not convinced they will issue a removal direction, i don't think they will be eager to issue Leave to remain either, and hence will not issue you a removal direction , which will lead to a right of appeal.

If you wife has a health condition, which makes it unreasonable to travel, you may be issued with leave to remain outside the immigration rules

Good explanation of situation.

Shahzad

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:02 am

............

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:32 pm

UPDATE: Just got a call from my solicitors who said, HO replied back to our representation saying they are considering into it and will notify us the outcome. If there are any error made in their decision only then they can consider the representation.
So what does that mean?
My solicitor said if they accept the representation and admit their decision was wrong then that is fine and they will issue me a visa, but if they insist they have not made any error in their decision then we got to fight again.
What normally happens when HO say above?

Post by **Greenie** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:40 pm

your solicitor has advised you of the two possible outcomes. He/she is in the best position to advise you of the likely outcome and he/she knows all of the facts of your case. I don't think speculation will help you. Just wait and see what happens.

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:17 pm

Greenie wrote:your solicitor has advised you of the two possible outcomes. He/she is in the best position to advise you of the likely outcome and he/she knows all of the facts of your case. I don't think speculation will help you. Just wait and see what happens.

Thats right, but the only reason I am asking you friends here is that sometime solicitors might miss something to mention in the cae which you can highlight and also i feel what experts have been saying here make sense and i am getting back to my solicitor and makig sure we are on the right track. You know what i mean. I am sort of person who doesn't just rely on 1 person's opinion rather this forum has helped me big time. Which only I know how great is this. Thanks all of you.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:39 am

r3gistered wrote:
Greenie wrote:your solicitor has advised you of the two possible outcomes. He/she is in the best position to advise you of the likely outcome and he/she knows all of the facts of your case. I don't think speculation will help you. Just wait and see what happens.
Thats right, but the only reason I am asking you friends here is that sometime solicitors might miss something to mention in the cae which you can highlight and also i feel what experts have been saying here make sense and i am getting back to my solicitor and makig sure we are on the right track. You know what i mean. I am sort of person who doesn't just rely on 1 person's opinion rather this forum has helped me big time. Which only I know how great is this. Thanks all of you.

You are welcome.Now look what home office revert back to you.

It can be postive and can be negative.

First wait for their reply.

Shahzad

r3gistered · Post by **r3gistered** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:06 pm

Hi just been hearing things from some other solicitors and all of them agreed with the wording of representation.
The only question I have is one of them said to me to come to her office and make another fresh application for FLR(M) while my representation are being considered as this might take up to 2-3 years on its own..... So just wanted to ask if she is right in her saying and i should make another application or should I just wait....
thanks

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:12 pm

r3gistered wrote:Hi just been hearing things from some other solicitors and all of them agreed with the wording of representation.
The only question I have is one of them said to me to come to her office and make another fresh application for FLR(M) while my representation are being considered as this might take up to 2-3 years on its own..... So just wanted to ask if she is right in her saying and i should make another application or should I just wait....
thanks

No ...
home office said they are consdering yours applications...so what on earth a new application would do when it will go to same home office..

there is no point to waste money on new application..Yes you can send them more evidence..you know solitor charge big fees for application..its makes no differnce to them you win or loose..they would get their money..

Well this is my ideas..see what other says..
Shahzad

malikscompany · Post by **malikscompany** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:25 am

I have read all your posts I was in similer situation once ans can understand you pain.

I lived in UK on student visa for 7 years then my visa was refused and I overstayed.
I married to British Citizen one year after I was Overstayed and never applied visa in HO.
Caught by Police about 2 years after my marriege and my wife was pregnent that time, she has all her family here and has 2 Children from previous marriage and she is in reguler contact with them and she has some kind of mental disorder, Phsycatric report was attached with application, it shows that since she is with me she is fine, if she is saperated from me she might be depresed and even try to kill herself. home office Issued my deportation order, i went through all appeal period with Tribunal , Reconsideration and High court.

refused from everywhere.my wife is from Egypt, she does not speak Urdu and has all her family in UK. HO said article 8 is considered too, that my wife can go and live with me in Pakistan, they think it will not be any problem for her to join me in Pakistan. they didnt care about her ill parents and her children. they isued my deportation order.

I was lucky, we left UK and moved to Ireland, I applied visa here in Ireland and got 5 years visa. we have been living in Ireland since then, my wife go and visit her parents and children regularly, sometimes she stay there longer. its just one hour flight from here and cheap too. anyway we are serviving but living in peace togather.

THANK GOD

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

FLR (SPOUSE) got refused, need urgent advice Please

FLR (SPOUSE) got refused, need urgent advice Please

..