Biometric Residence Permit - London - Ireland

[aminehmoh]

My husband has a BRP as a spouse - we live in England, could he travel to Ireland on this??

COuld some one help please! Thanks

[fatty patty]

My husband has a BRP as a spouse - we live in England, could he travel to Ireland on this??

COuld some one help please! Thanks

To travel to the Republic of Ireland (26 counties of Ireland) your husband need a visa to visit if he is non-EU. But if he is travelling to Northern Ireland (6 counties of Ireland) he don't need a visa as Northern Ireland is part of UK.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... eland.html

[Ben]

My husband has a BRP as a spouse - we live in England, could he travel to Ireland on this??

COuld some one help please! Thanks

To travel to the Republic of Ireland (26 counties of Ireland)

Ireland, yes. That's what aminehmoh said.

your husband need a visa to visit if he is non-EU.

Er, no he doesn't. Not necessarily anyway. It depends on his nationality and, possibly, the nationality of aminehmoh and the type of BRP held.

But if he is travelling to Northern Ireland (6 counties of Ireland) he don't need a visa as Northern Ireland is part of UK.

Northern Ireland wasn't mentioned.


I suspect aminehmoh's real question is, can the husband travel from England to Ireland using his BRP in lieu of his passport. The answer is no. Only British and Irish citizens may move between Britain and Ireland without the need to carry a passport.

[cobra]

WHAT ABOUT THE COMMON TRAVEL AREA . MY RECENT UK STATUS(UNDER THE HUMAN RIGHT) STATE THAT I DO NOT NEED A VISA TO TRAVEL TO ANY PART OF THE COMMON AREA BUT I WILL NEED A VISA IF I HAVE TRAVEL TO EU COUNTRIES.

COMMON AREA:

GREAT BRITAIN
IRELAND REPUBLIC
ISLE OF MAN
CHANNEL ISLANDS

[Ben]

WHAT ABOUT THE COMMON TRAVEL AREA . MY RECENT UK STATUS(UNDER THE HUMAN RIGHT) STATE THAT I DO NOT NEED A VISA TO TRAVEL TO ANY PART OF THE COMMON AREA BUT I WILL NEED A VISA IF I HAVE TRAVEL TO EU COUNTRIES.

Only British and Irish citizens may move among the CTA without the need to carry a passport. I would be interested to see any document which attempts to claim otherwise. I suspect the Irish authorities would too.

COMMON AREA:

GREAT BRITAIN
IRELAND REPUBLIC
ISLE OF MAN
CHANNEL ISLANDS

Also Northern Ireland.

[cobra]

I will try to scan it and post it on this forum by the end of this week, keep on checking.

[fatty patty]

Ireland, yes. That's what aminehmoh said.

Ireland is (32 counties innit?)...trying to explain that he would not need one to get into the quarter of it which is NI (6 counties).

Er, no he doesn't. Not necessarily anyway. It depends on his nationality and, possibly, the nationality of aminehmoh and the type of BRP held.

What else did i say? It doesnt depend on aminehmoh's nationality, its the chap's nationality that would be in question, obviously if he belongs to certain nationality where Republic of Ireland has a visa waiver agreement then he dont need a visa...but assuming from aminehmoh's question that he is from a visa required country.

I suspect aminehmoh's real question is, can the husband travel from England to Ireland using his BRP in lieu of his passport. The answer is no. Only British and Irish citizens may move between Britain and Ireland without the need to carry a passport.

Conclusion is and correct me if i am wrong there aminehmoh's hubby cant travel to the Republic unless he holds an Irish visitor's visa or belongs to the visa waiver countries. Wether he is married to a Brit/EU citizen exercising treaty rights in UK or on UK spousal visa he would need one to come here.

[cobra]

I am afraid the technology of furum web page doesn`t allow me to post this document.
I did my best i could but unfortunately it didn`t work.
My apology to everyone.

[86ti]

I am afraid the technology of furum web page doesn`t allow me to post this document.
I did my best i could but unfortunately it didn`t work.
My apology to everyone.

Can't you just use OCR software (software that tries to convert a scan into text)? That way you could just post the text.

[Ben]

Ireland, yes. That's what aminehmoh said.

Ireland is (32 counties innit?)...trying to explain that he would not need one to get into the quarter of it which is NI (6 counties).

Ireland is the name of the state. It is presumptuous to assume that aminehmoh was referring to the island of the same name.

Er, no he doesn't. Not necessarily anyway. It depends on his nationality and, possibly, the nationality of aminehmoh and the type of BRP held.

What else did i say? It doesnt depend on aminehmoh's nationality, its the chap's nationality that would be in question, obviously if he belongs to certain nationality where Republic of Ireland has a visa waiver agreement then he dont need a visa...but assuming from aminehmoh's question that he is from a visa required country.

You should not assume that aminehmoh's spouse is from a visa-required country. There is no indication in the OP that this is the case. Aminehmoh merely asks if her husband can travel on his BRP. The very fact that he has a BRP means that he holds a form of non-EEA nationality. Unless aminehmoh's husband is also a British or Irish citizen, he is not entitled to travel from England to Ireland without a valid passport.

However, this does not mean that he also needs a visa. He does not need a visa if he is not a visa-required national. He also does not need a visa if he is a visa-required national and is in possession of a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen. If he is a visa-required national, does not hold a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, but does carry a copy of his marriage certificate and if aminehmoh is herself an EEA national, his entry to Ireland cannot be refused.

I suspect aminehmoh's real question is, can the husband travel from England to Ireland using his BRP in lieu of his passport. The answer is no. Only British and Irish citizens may move between Britain and Ireland without the need to carry a passport.

Conclusion is and correct me if i am wrong there aminehmoh's hubby cant travel to the Republic unless he holds an Irish visitor's visa or belongs to the visa waiver countries. Wether he is married to a Brit/EU citizen exercising treaty rights in UK or on UK spousal visa he would need one to come here.

See above.

[Ben]

Cobra - can you scan the document then upload the TIF / JPG to ImageShack?

[Greenie]

WHAT ABOUT THE COMMON TRAVEL AREA . MY RECENT UK STATUS(UNDER THE HUMAN RIGHT) STATE THAT I DO NOT NEED A VISA TO TRAVEL TO ANY PART OF THE COMMON AREA BUT I WILL NEED A VISA IF I HAVE TRAVEL TO EU COUNTRIES.

Only British and Irish citizens may move among the CTA without the need to carry a passport. I would be interested to see any document which attempts to claim otherwise. I suspect the Irish authorities would too.

COMMON AREA:

GREAT BRITAIN
IRELAND REPUBLIC
ISLE OF MAN
CHANNEL ISLANDS

Also Northern Ireland.

I think Cobra was saying that he doesn't need a visa to travel anywhere else in the CTA not that he doesn't need a passport

[cobra]

Again me, I `ve try to convert it from scann to text by OCR software. But i noticed a lot of mistake which I manage to correct some of them.
Let me know if i am wrong about this issue.

here is the text converted below.


UK Border
Agency
UK Border agency
Tel
Fax
Web www.ukba.homeofhce.gov.uk

Our Ref

Your Ref

Date

2009

Dear

GRANT OF INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN
Your case has been reviewed. Having fully considered the information you have provided, and because of the individual circumstances of your case, it has been decided to grant you indefinite leave to remain m the United Kingdom. 'This leave has been granted exceptionally, outside the Immigration Rules.
Your dependants listed below have been granted leave in line.
This means that you and your dependants ate free to stay m this country permanently.
THIS LETTER IN ITSELF CONFERS NO LEAVE TO REMAIN IN THE UNITED
KINGDOM AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PROOF OF YOUR STATUS.
'These have been endorsed with indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom. It is this endorsement that constitutes proof of our immigration status in the United Kingdom.
Y

ENTITLEMENTS
You are permitted to work and do not need the permission of any Government Department before doing so. If you do not already have a National Insurance Number, you must contact the department for Work and Pensions in order to apply for one.
A National instance number (N1NO) application form (Form CA5407/BlA(1)) has been included with his pack. You need to complete this (as does any parker and any dependant children aged 16 or over) and return the forints) in the Business Reply envelope) supplied, as quickly as possible. You should receive a NINO within 7 days of receipt. If requited, you should then make any claim to benefits without delay. The enclosed leaflet on Job centre Plus Services offers dote advice.
You ate free to use the National Health Service and the social services, and other services provided by local authorizes as you need them.
BUILDING A SAFE, JUST AND TOLERANT SOCIETY

TRAVEL ABROAD
You may travel out of the Common Travel Area any number of times during the validity of the leave you have been Granted. The Common Travel Area comprises the united pogrom, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland. On your return, you will be re-admitted to the United pogrom without having to obtain fresh leave to enter unless you have been absent from the United kingdom for a continuous period of more than two years. Nevertheless, an investigation into your circumstances may be carried out upon your return to the United Kingdom, in order to determine whether or not the leave you have been granted should be revoked.

DEPENDANTS
lf you ate the principal sponsor and you are marbled and/ or have children under the age of 18 who ate outside the UK the normal requirements of the Immigration Rules regarding support and accommodation would have to be satisfied to Eddie them to join you in the United pogrom. If your spouse and minor children wish to apply to join you, they will need to approach a British Embassy, High Commission or Consulate abroad to make an application for entry clearance to the United Kingdom. Dependants are required to make their application before travelling to the United Kingdom.
CAUTION
You should understand, however, that you may not be allowed to remain in the United pogrom if, during your stay, you take part in any criminal activities or activities such as support for or encouragement of terrorist organizations, or you otherwise endanger national security or public order. You may also not be allowed to remain in the United Kingdom if it is decided fox some other reason that your presence here is not conducive to the public good.

Yours severely,

Case Resolution Directorate

Acting on behalf the secretary ('slate 2 of 2


BUILDING A SAFE, JUST AND TOLERANT SOCIETY

[Ben]

Thank you Cobra. It says:

You may travel out of the Common Travel Area any number of times during the validity of the leave you have been Granted. The Common Travel Area comprises the united pogrom, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland. On your return, you will be re-admitted to the United pogrom without having to obtain fresh leave to enter unless you have been absent from the United kingdom for a continuous period of more than two years. Nevertheless, an investigation into your circumstances may be carried out upon your return to the United Kingdom, in order to determine whether or not the leave you have been granted should be revoked.

Indeed you are free to leave the CTA and to re-enter the United Kingdom. This does not mean that you are entitled to enter Ireland without a valid passport (or passport replacing document) or an entry visa, if applicable.

[fatty patty]

You should not assume that aminehmoh's spouse is from a visa-required country. There is no indication in the OP that this is the case. Aminehmoh merely asks if her husband can travel on his BRP. The very fact that he has a BRP means that he holds a form of non-EEA nationality. Unless aminehmoh's husband is also a British or Irish citizen, he is not entitled to travel from England to Ireland without a valid passport.

I am very sorry boss but i was just trying to clarify but.....

However, this does not mean that he also needs a visa. He does not need a visa if he is not a visa-required national. He also does not need a visa if he is a visa-required national and is in possession of a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen. If he is a visa-required national, does not hold a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, but does carry a copy of his marriage certificate and if aminehmoh is herself an EEA national, his entry to Ireland cannot be refused.

So this means that any person holding EU fam card issued say for e.g. in Germany and traveling with EU spouse can enter Ireland without having to get a visa? If thats the case then this means INIS are following the EU directive fully...but my understanding was that they were pushing for visas.

TRAVEL ABROAD
You may travel out of the Common Travel Area any number of times during the validity of the leave you have been Granted. The Common Travel Area comprises the united pogrom, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland. On your return, you will be re-admitted to the United pogrom without having to obtain fresh leave to enter unless you have been absent from the United kingdom for a continuous period of more than two years. Nevertheless, an investigation into your circumstances may be carried out upon your return to the United Kingdom, in order to determine whether or not the leave you have been granted should be revoked.

It say that you can travel out of CTA any number of times Cobra....hmm unless there was an agreement of some sort that this particular document holder can visit or we are getting lost in translation and as Ben said you can leave UK and visit RoI but do require visa.

[86ti]

So this means that any person holding EU fam card issued say for e.g. in Germany and traveling with EU spouse can enter Ireland without having to get a visa? If thats the case then this means INIS are following the EU directive fully...

Exactly. The UK, BTW, is as "creative" in interpreting that particular part of the Directive. The EU commission thinks they are both wrong.

[imran_yaqoob]

Hi Ben,

I am a British National and my wife is Pakistani national. We are planning to go to Ireland for a weekend. Does it mean my wife does not need a visa as she is family member of EEA national and holds a UKBA Biometric Residenc card. Is UKBA residence permit a valid residence card of a family member of a Union citizen or not? Does she need to carry her passport, BRP and marriage certificate when we travel to Ireland without visitor visa or she is better advised to get visa first. I am travelling with her, by the way.

I am assuming that from your below comments. Could you confirm above for me please?

However, this does not mean that he also needs a visa. He does not need a visa if he is not a visa-required national. He also does not need a visa if he is a visa-required national and is in possession of a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen. If he is a visa-required national, does not hold a residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, but does carry a copy of his marriage certificate and if aminehmoh is herself an EEA national, his entry to Ireland cannot be refused.

See above.[/quote]

[Ben]

Hi Imran.

As your wife is a Pakistan national and is not the holder of a valid residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, she is not entitled to enter Ireland without an entry visa, according to Directive 2004/38/EC. However, this Directive also states that your wife's entry to Ireland cannot be refused if she and you both have your passports and marriage certificate in your possession.

Your real problem is boarding the plane (or, to a lesser degree, ship). Airport / port staff will look for a visa and may not be fully aware of exemption entitlements.

For info, an Irish EUTR visa is free and must be issued as soon as possible. Your wife would need to submit to the Irish embassy in London her passport, your passport and your marriage certificate. That is all.

I write all this assuming that you are a British citizen (UK national), and not the holder of another form of British nationality.

Assalamualakum.

[imran_yaqoob]

Hi,

Thanks for your prompt reply. It makes sense to apply for visa to be on the safer side and it is free any way.

Can I ask you another questions, Do I have to make an appointment at Irish consulat? Do I have to fill visa form online and then take our passports? How does it work?

Thanks once again.

Hi Imran.

As your wife is a Pakistan national and is not the holder of a valid residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, she is not entitled to enter Ireland without an entry visa, according to Directive 2004/38/EC. However, this Directive also states that your wife's entry to Ireland cannot be refused if she and you both have your passports and marriage certificate in your possession.

Your real problem is boarding the plane (or, to a lesser degree, ship). Airport / port staff will look for a visa and may not be fully aware of exemption entitlements.

For info, an Irish EUTR visa is free and must be issued as soon as possible. Your wife would need to submit to the Irish embassy in London her passport, your passport and your marriage certificate. That is all.

I write all this assuming that you are a British citizen (UK national), and not the holder of another form of British nationality.

Assalamualakum.

[imran_yaqoob]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

Could I ask you few more questions? Do I have to make an appointment at Irish Consulate? Do I have to fill online form before that? How does it work?

Thanks for your reply.

Hi Imran.

As your wife is a Pakistan national and is not the holder of a valid residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, she is not entitled to enter Ireland without an entry visa, according to Directive 2004/38/EC. However, this Directive also states that your wife's entry to Ireland cannot be refused if she and you both have your passports and marriage certificate in your possession.

Your real problem is boarding the plane (or, to a lesser degree, ship). Airport / port staff will look for a visa and may not be fully aware of exemption entitlements.

For info, an Irish EUTR visa is free and must be issued as soon as possible. Your wife would need to submit to the Irish embassy in London her passport, your passport and your marriage certificate. That is all.

I write all this assuming that you are a British citizen (UK national), and not the holder of another form of British nationality.

Assalamualakum.

[Malika]

Thank you Cobra. It says:

You may travel out of the Common Travel Area any number of times during the validity of the leave you have been Granted. The Common Travel Area comprises the united pogrom, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland. On your return, you will be re-admitted to the United pogrom without having to obtain fresh leave to enter unless you have been absent from the United kingdom for a continuous period of more than two years. Nevertheless, an investigation into your circumstances may be carried out upon your return to the United Kingdom, in order to determine whether or not the leave you have been granted should be revoked.

Indeed you are free to leave the CTA and to re-enter the United Kingdom. This does not mean that you are entitled to enter Ireland without a valid passport (or passport replacing document) or an entry visa, if applicable.

I agree with you here........... I am not that knowledgeable in EU matters(especially to do with EU spouse), Visa is required if you want to travel within the CTA if you are non- EU and visa required national.

A friend of mine who has Indefinite Leave to remain and travelled to Ireland (Eire) was turned back at Dublin airport. She had a travel document issued by the Home Office which clearly stated that she doesn't need a visa. When she showed them that Visa is not a must, the Immigration people told her that whoever included Ireland as not requiring visa made a mistake.
Just the same because a person with permanent residency here in Ireland is still required to get a visa. (for those who want to travel legally)