5 years for ILR rule implemented

nonothing · Post by **nonothing** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:17 pm

Papafaith wrote:There will always be people who are sceptical about donations but that is their business. In this world there will always be people who are ready to sacrifice for others and i am one.
If we can find 100 of such people, we can donate GBP 100.00 each.
Am sure even the thought of a court case will cause the home office to listen to us.

!) Papafaith - 100.00 pounds.

Let the remaming 99 people signify and we take it from there..

papafaith mate,

here's another attempt, you can see how many people in this forum can really donate:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... &start=489

but, that's not the real point. the point is donation is just one thing, actually it's the easier one. managing the money and the court case is another thing and the real tough one.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:25 pm

Nonothing, good we have that number now. I think a law firm can manage the funds and the case on our behalf. Once we get 100 people willing to give 100 pounds for example, all we do is elect reps and lead person, who contacts a law firm copying the rest of us. I think we can do this. We need a law firm with guts. Once we get the number of people willing to donate, we then consult a reputable law firm, if they would give it a shot, we negotiate the total amount and each person pays stright to the law firm, and then we watch them act.
Unless we start, we wont know th kind of challenges to meet. I believe we should start.

supertiger · Post by **supertiger** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:52 pm

I belive we should start too, sooner than later. Once we start as long as we are moving forward more people will be motivated to donate...

nonothing · Post by **nonothing** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:09 pm

yes, Papafaith, that's exactly what i'm thinking. challenges are listed below:

1. £100 x 100 people, even before they know who the lawyer is gonna be. also not sure if £10K is enough.
2. sellect a reps and lead person. remind you, we haven't even met each other yet. how can the 100 people sellect a reps and lead person?
3. a reps and lead person with huge enthusiasm, responsibility, competence and enough time. and also he/she might need to be affected by the changes too. is it easy to find such a person?
4. a reputable law firm with guts.
5. negotiation and cooperation with the law firm.
6. can it be negotiated as an one-off payment? is it possible that further money is needed? (very likely).
7. huge patience before and during the court case. how long is it gonna take, 6 months? 1 year? 2 years?

sorry, mate. i don't want to be negative. above are only what pop up into my mind right now. i suppose there should be more than those challenges. however, i do believe we should start, sooner rather than later. but honestly, i'd prefer an individual court case. that might be more practical.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:29 pm

It looks daunting, but we must remain positive, we should be tackling the chalenges as they come.
I beileve a corporate suit is far more powerful than a single one. If i was to go to court, my major headache will be finance. I think people will prefer to wait one year than incure a personal finanance of 10K or more like you said. And in anycase, the case might drag longer than the additional one year for the individual, so i believe, we should encourage VBSI to take a lega action on our behalves like the doctorsd did, we will get people to finance. Its when we have started that you will see the number of people willing to donate.
Did we think we would get over 1000 signatures in our pertitions when we started?
VBSI should go to court on our behalf.
Another point is that if the estimated 100,000 HMSP/Work permit people pay 10 pounds each, we will have more than enough for VBSI to work with.

timefactor · Post by **timefactor** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:44 pm

Least i can contribute £100 or say, £300 including who affected in my friends circle

Can't VBSI turn into a registered organisation?

supertiger · Post by **supertiger** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:50 pm

According to the immigration solicitor the Chineseinuk first found in Mar, it would take several thousand pounds to start. I believe there'll be lots of intangible cost afterwards but this seems the only way to overturn the rule. Yes writing to MPs is cheaper but does it work? We can certainly gain some sympathy but is that what we want? We can probably aim to get all LD MPs to sign the EDM that's something, yet that;s still only 60, even we can have 300 so what? Do HO have to listen? They do reply our letters but waht do you feel? copy and paste, as if answering your queries but do they really answer any? Let's do things in their procedure then, that is: take them to court. If the judge rules we win then we win, and vice versa.

try-one · Post by **try-one** » Wed May 31, 2006 7:58 pm

Hi;
My ILR was intended for Nov 06; so I can't present my case now; I'm happy to put £500 forward to support a legal case now that can unblock the situation NOW.
My daughter will be born in Dec 06 as a foreign national; If I get ILR she will be british from day one; I was planning to start a Masters Degree this year....it will cost me £5,000 LESS if I have ILR; My mortgage renewall is next year....from 5.7% (for being a foreign national ) to far less.....So I'm loosing a lot of money with this retrospective change.

supertiger · Post by **supertiger** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:08 pm

try-one wrote:Hi;
My ILR was intended for Nov 06; so I can't present my case now; I'm happy to put £500 forward to support a legal case now that can unblock the situation NOW.
My daughter will be born in Dec 06 as a foreign national; If I get ILR she will be british from day one; I was planning to start a Masters Degree this year....it will cost me £5,000 LESS if I have ILR; My mortgage renewall is next year....from 5.7% (for being a foreign national ) to far less.....So I'm loosing a lot of money with this retrospective change.

thanks Try-one hope you are ok with the extra stress. I think there'll be more people willing to sign a check rather than protest in street. we need a solution not complains so a court action is to achieve that.

tobiashomer · Post by **tobiashomer** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:37 am

supertiger wrote: Yes writing to MPs is cheaper but does it work?

No, it really does not work, not in the case of Labour MPs at least. Mine has written twice to HO and twice forwarded to me their boilerplate, same as you have all seen, with no promise of anything other than "sympathy".

So the party of Government is out to lunch on this, letting the bureaucrats call the shots on this minor issue for them, big one for us. I think only a well-directed court case has ANY chance at all: what would we gain by demonstrating? No-one will feel sorry for gainfully employed people who are obviously benefitting from being here and are not in any danger of being sent back to a dangerous homeland.

However this is a country of laws and even BP plc can defend its rights in court against Joe Blow petrol station ltd. if Joe fails to pay his bills in accordance with his contract. We all felt we had a contract with the HO as evidenced by their brochures tempting us to apply for HSMP, website statements about 4 years and those nice letters on first renewal telling when we can apply for ILR. Surely there must be a principle of administrative law and practice that supports our grievance? Has anyone consulted an experienced law firm to see if we would have a chance, and on what basis, if we sue?

supertiger · Post by **supertiger** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:48 am

Does anyone have contact with Gherson someone suggested earlier? I share office with some gossipy people so not very free to talk this kind of big issue on phone, can someone ring up to discuss? I did send an email enquiry in March regarding the legal action but didn;t receive reply. Their CEO was an immigrant in USA so he said he understands...

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:38 am

I contacted Gherson in April when the changes took effect, but got no reply from them.

BadPaul · Post by **BadPaul** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:51 am

I've received a letter from my MP today, Mr Robert Wilson, Conservatives, Reading East constituency:

" Dear Paul

Thank you for contacting me regarding the problems you have experienced with changes to immigration law.

This appears to be yet a further example the Government penalising hardworking individuals complying with the law, rather than addressing their failure to tackle the problem of individuals who remain here illegally.

I have written to the Minister of State to raise this matter. As soon as I receive a response I will be in contact again "

To be honest, I do not expect much from this, maybe the same kind of letters we all received as a response from HO.

I do agree that a legal action is required if we want to make any progress.
I am willing to donate money for a collective case against HO.

Lobbying and talking is all fine, but it seems is not taking us anywhere. I already contacted a very reputable law firm asking if I can sue.
They told me yes, if I have written proof that they promised us 4 years:

Below is their response:

The point you raise is an extremely good one. The Home Office omitted to consult anyone on the changes to the Immigration Rules which increases the period required for indefinite leave to remain from four to five years and, on this specific point, we have already raised objections. Having said that, the Home Office does have the power to change the Rules whenever they believe it is required without consultation. Accordingly, the only basis of bringing court action would be where the Home Office has actually promised an individual that they can apply for indefinite leave to remain after four years and has then reneged on this promise through the recent changes. This promise would need to be in a specific piece of written correspondence addressed to the individual concerned (rather than a general promise through existing legislation at the time that the initial leave to remain was granted).

So, let's put money together and sue, I had enough of this arrogant answers from HO !

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:07 am

Paul why are you bad?

, That is a good one, can you give me the contact of this law firm? I believe its time to pursue a court action against the HO.

easylife4me · Post by **easylife4me** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:09 am

Come on guys its time to take LEgal action... let get on with it.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:11 am

Can we create a sticky (Moderators) where we can put down the names of those willing to donate as they signify?

first2last4 · Post by **first2last4** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:15 am

Legal action!
Looks like we are up to some real work now.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:21 am

First2last4, easylife4me, are you guys willing to donate? am compiling a list of possible donors.

pluto · Post by **pluto** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:35 am

Badpaul..

I live in Reading too and wrote to Rob Wilson by email on 22nd May but have got no response ... when did you wirte to him?

BadPaul · Post by **BadPaul** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:44 am

Papafaith,

The firm is Fragomen (GB) Limited
Kingsway House
103, Kingsway
London
WC2B 6QX

Main Tel: +44 (0) 207 025 3700
Main Fax: +44 (0) 207 404 1836

They are a corporate immigration firm, I am not sure they want to take HO to court, but they are the ones who provided me with advice on the 4 to 5 years change.

I will write to them and ask them if they are willing to take the case ,and if not, if they can recommend a good law firm who might help us.

I also wrote to Liberty, I think it would be good if VBSI will get in touch with them , they have lawyers which might help us.
Perhaps Liberty's lawyers are willing to take a collective case against HO, if we fund it. I am up for legal action !

BadPaul · Post by **BadPaul** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:46 am

Pluto,

I wrote to him at the end of April, it took him some time to reply ! I am sure he will reply to yours as well.

But as I said before, i think lobbying and writting to MPs is a good idea, just doesn't seem to move our case forward.

supertiger · Post by **supertiger** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:03 pm

I spoke to a lady of Fragomen (GB) last month on phone, she seemed nice and clearly knows the issue. We may check with them if they are willing to take the case...

By using any party's lawyer may have disadvantages...

pluto · Post by **pluto** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:04 pm

Thanks Paul

In deed it even takes so long for a reply from one MP - it seems that by the time we collected all the MPs reply it will be next year already..

I agree that legal action is a good idea.

BadPaul · Post by **BadPaul** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:20 pm

I have the feeling the HO knows what they've done is not right, as many immigration bodies / firms have raised the objections on the retrospective application of the new 5 years rule.

It seems to me they were / are counting on us keeping quiet and complete the extra year without making too much noise.

This is where I want to prove them wrong ! It's a matter of principles more than anything else for me and perhaps for all of you. I might complete the extra year before we are successful in our attempt to change the current 5 years rule, but I still want to go ahead and take them to court.

pluto · Post by **pluto** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:22 pm

BBC have not updated this one ---

5. Indefinite leave to remain

People who have been working continuously in the UK for four years with a work permit, and who are still required by their employer, can apply for 'indefinite leave to remain'. This means that they are free to stay in the UK for as long as they like and that they are considered to be permanently settled.

Those who came to the UK under the highly skilled migrant programme can also apply for indefinite leave to remain after they have been resident for four years.

Anyone who has lived lawfully in the UK for 10 years can apply.

People who have been admitted to the UK to live with their partner for a limited time must first apply for a two year extension to their stay. If they are still in the same relationship at the end of this period they may apply for indefinite leave to remain.

After five years living in the UK, or three years if they are married to someone from the UK, foreign nationals can apply to naturalise as British citizens.

Full acticles could be found here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A2202373

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5 years for ILR rule implemented

I will contribute £500

Re: I will contribute £500