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Fina Gael in Power, positive or negative for immigrants?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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IRISH PHAROE
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Fina Gael in Power, positive or negative for immigrants?

Post by IRISH PHAROE » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:47 pm

Hi All,
And now after Fina Gael will be in power, Put your opinion, will it be positive or negative for the immigrants?
In their policy last spring they mentioned something about having 6 months - yes only 6 months- for immigration and asylum processing time. Do you beleive that would happen?
What do you know about Denis Naughten( I do not know he would be elected or not so far)? as he is the fron bench for Fina Gael regarding Immigration and integration?
peace on you

HOTSPURS
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Re: Fina Gael in Power, positive or negative for immigrants?

Post by HOTSPURS » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:18 pm

IRISH PHAROE wrote:Hi All,
And now after Fina Gael will be in power, Put your opinion, will it be positive or negative for the immigrants?
In their policy last spring they mentioned something about having 6 months - yes only 6 months- for immigration and asylum processing time. Do you beleive that would happen?
What do you know about Denis Naughten( I do not know he would be elected or not so far)? as he is the fron bench for Fina Gael regarding Immigration and integration?
yeah, FG promise 'Fair & transparent' immigration System & processing in 6 months (like UK?). Let's see if they keep up the promise or it's going to be more of the same shit for the next term. atleast, we've been given a change & I believe noone can be as bad as Fianna Fail

ostrich
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Nigeria

Post by ostrich » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:47 pm

Exactly, they wont be as bad as Fianna fail. I believe immigrants would see nothing but positive.
Its never too late

IRISH PHAROE
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Post by IRISH PHAROE » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:29 pm

But is there anyone knows more about their immigration ploicies as I remember a year or 2 years ago someone from Fina Gael was proposing to give the immigrants money and ask them to leave Ireland.
Will that be their trend? hopefuly not
peace on you

agniukas
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Post by agniukas » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:36 pm

Fianna gail are also planning to let go 30,000 civil servants, so i wonder, who will be processing all those applications?

strongbow
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Post by strongbow » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:34 pm

sorry for being a skeptic, but I think these parties are all the same w.r.t. immigrants!

acme4242
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Post by acme4242 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:25 am

Do remember all the draconian policy and unjust laws have been put in place
by FF starting with self serving John O'Donoghue who is now history along
with McDowell but their legacy of injustice remains.

The first test will be if FG/Lab/SF maintain the absurd reverse discrimination
against Irish Citizens created by the outgoing regime.
We can hope for justice and equality for genuine families and decent
hard working immigrants.

Lets see. I really hope its not more of the same.

IRISH PHAROE
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Post by IRISH PHAROE » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:04 am

According to the latest result Fine Gael is on track.
Denis Naughten is elected so he might be the next minister for immigration and integration.
Does anyone know anything about him? his opinion regarding immigration?
peace on you

HOTSPURS
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Post by HOTSPURS » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:55 am

IRISH PHAROE wrote:But is there anyone knows more about their immigration ploicies as I remember a year or 2 years ago someone from Fina Gael was proposing to give the immigrants money and ask them to leave Ireland.
Will that be their trend? hopefuly not
Leo Varadkar of Fine Gael was the 'genius' who suggested that Unemployed Immigrants should be compensated & sent home. The irony is his dad is of Indian origin. So, if this chap becomes the next Justice minister, do not expect the promises to be kept.

Southern_Sky
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Post by Southern_Sky » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:03 am

In the end it depends on who FG shares Gov't with, Labour or Independents.
Labour may dilute the FG policy. Independents are all self-serving.
But there isn't much hope room improvement for immigrants as FG is the most conservative of parties. Only SF is more conservative.
Immigrants are the last thing on the new FG gov't's agenda.

fatty patty
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Post by fatty patty » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:28 pm

Lets be frank here....fine gael and fianna fail are pretty much the same when it comes to immigration and most other policies, maybe different ways they want to implement. As far as Leo suggesting that economic migrants who are not making ends meet to be sent home with some form of financial assistance. I ask what is wrong with that? Its a practice in other EU countries as far as i am aware. Also SF, Labour and socialists are the most immigrant friendly parties then FF and FG. By the way its Alan Shatter who i think is going to be the justice minister (which deals with INIS) as he is FG's spokesperson on these matters, his views on immigration especially citizenship and asylum are very welcoming. 100 times better then the previous lot.



Source: http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?i ... hip#g242.0

[quote]Briefly, I pay tribute to some of the groups and organisations which work with immigrants and which, over the years of the three different Bills, have provided assistance to Members of this House in their consideration of what was published. In particular, I refer to the Immigrant Council of Ireland, the Irish Refugee Council and the Migrant Rights Centre. I also wish to note those absent, in the context of making submissions on this Bill. The Human Rights Commission made substantial observations on the 2008 Bill. From inquiries made it is unfortunate that due to the cutbacks inflicted on that body, it has apparently been unable to make detailed submissions to Members of this House and to the public on its views of the Bill as it is now reconstructed. That is a detrimental development.

This is the Government’s third attempt in four years to enact comprehensive legislation for the management of inward migration to Ireland. While the Bill is an improvement on its two predecessors, it is a fundamentally flawed piece of legislation. Radical restructuring and major amendments are required to make this Bill fit for purpose and to provide for the coherent and comprehensive legislation necessary to achieve the Government’s aim of establishing a fair, transparent and comprehensive immigration structure and policy, based on readily identifiable rules and regulations. Legislation such as this requires essential balance. The right of the State to determine the rules applicable to the residence in the State of non-EU nationals and the right and obligation of Government to protect the interests of citizens in this State and the common good is, of course, centre stage. However, the conduct of the State, of Government and its institutions, must also respect human rights and this State’s international obligations to protect the fundamental rights guaranteed to persons under the European Convention on the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of facial Discrimination, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the International Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Although this Bill purports to take on board some of this State’s obligations under international conventions, it fails to adequately address the human rights of immigrants and their families and the rights of Irish citizens to a full family life in circumstances in which their spouse is neither a citizen of this State or any other EU state.

The Bill delegates excessive power to the Minister for Justice and Law Reform. Under it, the Minister has broad discretionary powers to make orders and regulations to hammer out the nuts and bolts of the system of immigration control. In too many parts, despite its extraordinary length, the Bill is a mere skeleton lacking legislative flesh and fails to provide the essential legal certainty required in this very important area of our law. It fails to clearly specify who can enter the State, the rules applicable to determine how long they can stay, the circumstances in which they can be joined by family members and what rights and entitlements attach to migrants when lawfully present in Ireland. The broad indeterminate and discretionary provisions contained in the Bill will continue to preserve the risk of individuals being unjustly treated as a consequence of arbitrary decisions. While undoubtedly the legislation should provide for some flexibility and not be a straitjacket, in its current form it is too imprecise and confers an excessive and unnecessarily broad discretionary power on the Minister.

The Minister is essentially delegating to himself such broad powers to make regulations under the Bill as to be effectively establishing himself as an alternative, independent and individual Dáil Chamber. The Bill is designed by the Minister to essentially establish “Oireachtas Ahernâ€

Tandor
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Post by Tandor » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:04 am

That's all very nice but in reality what a politician says and does in opposition rarely, if ever, manifests itself when they finally take office...

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:03 am

1. In 2007 Enda promised that a Minister for Immigration would be brought in. He did not get in, but failed to bring in his equivlant role anyway. Instead he dilluted the post to that of Integration so its hardly the same.

2. Denis Naughten was not effective in the post anyway. He is more suited to farmers and roads. Moreover, he was involved in an attempted heave against Enda in the summer, so it is quite possible, taken geographical location & its importance aside, he won't get any ministerial position. Particularily now that Labour are in.

3. The attitudes have greatly sifted now, and the parties main concern and priority is to reduce the deficit, department wastage and bring in more jobs for Irish Citizens. The flight of the immigrant won't be any where near the top, maybe some lip service but no more.

4. I doubt Leo V, possibly the next Justice Minister would be too concerened unless you (the immigrant) is a doctor or from a wealthy or middle class background (that could be said about any FG member really)

Saying that, people like Bredan Durkan TD might be worth contacting, possibly even Alan Shatter (who may be sent for the AG job, so do it now)

9jeirean
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Post by 9jeirean » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:08 am

Thanks for the link fatty Patty, I was going to post same. I hope Alan Shatter gets the Justice portfolio so he can proof he's not all about rhetorics. He articulated very clearly the inherent malaise in the current Irish immigration system in that link. That is a good base to start IMHO and hopefully with Labour in government with FG, we may see some fundamental changes. I must say as well that i am not holding my breath, not in the short term at least.


9jeirean

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:11 am

Southern_Sky wrote:In the end it depends on who FG shares Gov't with, Labour or Independents.
Labour may dilute the FG policy. Independents are all self-serving.
But there isn't much hope room improvement for immigrants as FG is the most conservative of parties. Only SF is more conservative.
Immigrants are the last thing on the new FG gov't's agenda.
Where did you get that extremely unintelligent notion that Sinn Féin are more conservative than FG? SF are one of the most immigrant friendly parties in this State (the only party who voted no against the referendum changing citizenship), its pro gay marriages and other social changes.

Seriously point out where this notion was obtained or was it based on your own false opinion.

FG, particularily its older supporters are very conservative

fatty patty
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Post by fatty patty » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:45 pm

Tandor wrote:That's all very nice but in reality what a politician says and does in opposition rarely, if ever, manifests itself when they finally take office...
9jeirean wrote:I must say as well that i am not holding my breath, not in the short term at least.
I agree with yous and its very true, all politicians are guilty of pre election rhetorics...but lets see.

knapps
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Post by knapps » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:26 pm

I totally agree that SF has never been biased against immigrants or foreigners.

Now, it is the time for the immigration supporting charities like NASQ, immigration council of Ireland to voice together to FG Enda Kenny to revamp the whole structure of this lazy INIS Dept.

They should use, fast computers, have brainy people when they talk make sense etc to be efficient..

Monifé
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Post by Monifé » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:43 pm

I too am not going to hold my breath. Reforming immigration is definitely going to be last on the list.

Also, Alan Shatter is tipped to be the next Justice Minister, and from what I know, he is extremely right wing and very conservative... Not good for immigrants.
beloved is the enemy of freedom, and deserves to be met head-on and stamped out - Pierre Berton

ostrich
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Nigeria

Post by ostrich » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:11 pm

There is definitely gonna be some positives. I dont expect the ridiculous waiting time we are currently experiencing on all applications to continue.
Its never too late

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:21 pm

Monifé wrote:I too am not going to hold my breath. Reforming immigration is definitely going to be last on the list.

Also, Alan Shatter is tipped to be the next Justice Minister, and from what I know, he is extremely right wing and very conservative... Not good for immigrants.
He is conservative in a way, but as a well respected expert in family law he would understand the emotional etc issues at stake (better not look at the comments on rate your solicitor though, most are probably nonsense from sore loosers who expect a lawyer to wave a magic wand even in hopless cases). He has regularly spoken out on immigration. Many of the contributors here have blamed issues like beloved, fear of integration and guff from wacko type national front as reasons that the civil servants and ministers act they way they do. All I know is , if you were wealthy or a potential wealth maker and possibly from a certain region, FG would certaintly help. If you don't meet that criteria, strictly from looking at how FG regard less well off Irish people, (moving away from the campaign socialist attitude of some local councillors - gee socialism and FG, never mix) I would not hold my breath.

As others stated though, it will be interesting to see what happends. Been the knee jerk reactionaries that FG tend, in the past, to be, even if Shatter or whoever the next FG minister is, really really really really wanted to do something about the delays in at least giving a decision, I don't think the public would be happy seeing the minister taking priority over this issue as oppose to say gangland crime (I mean publicly, if he goes about reform in the quite, he could be ok. Most of the public don't know what goes on at INIS)

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Post by IRISH PHAROE » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:55 pm

and now after having Alan shatter as a justice minister, hopefuly someone remind him with his debate about the citizenship earlier in the Dail.
peace on you

IRISH PHAROE
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Post by IRISH PHAROE » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:56 pm

can we send him e mails with his speach as an attachment?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
peace on you

9jeirean
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Post by 9jeirean » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:03 pm

IRISH PHAROE wrote:can we send him e mails with his speach as an attachment?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I suggest we make it into a life size poster/billboard (Fr. Ted vs. Bishop Brennan style) and place it in front of the DoJ office at St. Stephen's Green :D :D

Image
Last edited by 9jeirean on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

9jeirean
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Post by 9jeirean » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:04 pm

Deleted: Double post

walrusgumble
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Post by walrusgumble » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:44 am

9jeirean wrote:
IRISH PHAROE wrote:can we send him e mails with his speach as an attachment?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I suggest we make it into a life size poster/billboard (Fr. Ted vs. Bishop Brennan style) and place it in front of the DoJ office at St. Stephen's Green :D :D

Image
What does the "N" stand for? And who is the fella's face superimpossed onto Fr Ted/Dermot Morgan? What exactly is the poster trying to say, sod the economic priorities sort out a small minority?

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