Any advice on re- entering the UK following overstay on visa

kate30 · Post by **kate30** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:51 am

Hi,

I m a UK citizen and my partner is in the process of applying for a visa to come to the UK, on a fiancee visa from South Africa.
However, he left to go back to SA last year and his student visa had expired by 5 months, this was not picked up at customs so he had no hassles getting out.
He has just applied for the visa on a new passport and they have asked for his old passport which a) he can't find anywhere and b) if he could would show his overstay.

Does anyone have any advice at all, I would be v grateful, Thank you
Kate.

PASS · Post by **PASS** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:58 pm

He needs to fill an EC application for Visa to reenter the UK. He has to submit his passport for this purpose

Although, he might have left the UK without any check (it is usual), his passport would have been endosored with SA immigration stamp on arrival in SA (or any other country upon leaving the UK). Entry clearnce officer will/may locate this during application process.

So it is very difficult to hide information.

badboyz · Post by **badboyz** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:36 pm

Were is his old passport, if it was lost he needs to give the ECO a copy of the police report and explain his immigration history in a letter to them, try not to give them any doubt tell the truth.

read these posts.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=5452

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:54 pm

There is no requirement for any applicant applying for the EC to come to the UK to provide the detailed explanation of his previous immigration history unless asked to do so by the ECO during the interview.
There are questions in VAF application form that all have to be clearly and correctly answered. There is no such a question "Have you previously overstayed your visa in the UK?". There are, however, questions like "Have you ever been deported/removed from the UK (the IS XXX forms served) or have been refused entry in the UK" - these are the only questions to be answered and in your fiance situation the answer is "no".

There is no point of volunteering any information which you are not asked for, however, if he does not produce his old passport there is a likelihood that the questions about his previous immigration history may be asked.

Good luck and hope for the best. Please keep us informed on developments.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:16 pm

Although, he might have left the UK without any check (it is usual), his passport would have been endosored with SA immigration stamp on arrival in SA (or any other country upon leaving the UK). Entry clearnce officer will/may locate this during application process.

So it is very difficult to hide information.

They may locate his entry stamp into South Africa but they still cannot prove that he arrived in SA from the UK as there will be no record of him leaving the UK. He could just as easily have arrived from Mozambique or Mongolia.

bbdivo · Post by **bbdivo** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:49 pm

Dawie wrote:
Although, he might have left the UK without any check (it is usual), his passport would have been endosored with SA immigration stamp on arrival in SA (or any other country upon leaving the UK). Entry clearnce officer will/may locate this during application process.

So it is very difficult to hide information.
They may locate his entry stamp into South Africa but they still cannot prove that he arrived in SA from the UK as there will be no record of him leaving the UK. He could just as easily have arrived from Mozambique or Mongolia.

Yes but wouldn't there be an entry stamp for Mozambique or Mongolia then?!

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:55 pm

Yes but wouldn't there be an entry stamp for Mozambique or Mongolia then?!

Maybe, maybe not. As anyone who has travelled will know, there could be any number of reasons for a missing stamp from your passport. My passport is full of journeys that look half completed because of immigration officials that have either been too lazy, too busy or just not present to stamp my passport. I have even entered the Schengen zone (and I require a visa for the Schengen zone) and not had my passport stamped either on arrival or departure. This has especially happened when entering France from the UK via the Dover ferry as well as flying into various Spanish airports where the immigration officials are half asleep.

My point is this....there is no way that a UK immigration official can know where you have been if there is no stamp to prove it. Sure, you can talk about databases and records etc, but what are they going to do? Contact every country in the world to prove or disprove what you've told them? Do you think they have that much time on their hands?

bbdivo · Post by **bbdivo** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:02 pm

Dawie wrote: My point is this....there is no way that a UK immigration official can know where you have been if there is no stamp to prove it. Sure, you can talk about databases and records etc, but what are they going to do? Contact every country in the world to prove or disprove what you've told them? Do you think they have that much time on their hands?

And the point I am trying to make is there is more ways than one to determine if you have overstayed or not.

rg1 · Post by **rg1** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:09 pm

If UK immigration officials were so clever, then there would not have been so many illegal immigrants!

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:14 pm

If UK immigration officials were so clever, then there would not have been so many illegal immigrants!

I think this is beside the point above.
I believe the ECO can determine this depending on the country. I was in the US a couple of years ago and on my return, my passport was not stamp at Heathrow. The next time I got to the US, they gave me a little hard time to determine that I really left the country.
I know in Ghana presently, passports are not stamped but scanned into their system upon arrival and the BHC have access to this database so they can check everyone's arrival - This I guess was introduced due to overstayers. If the ECO wants to check, as said above, there are various ways of finding out!

kate30 · Post by **kate30** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:59 pm

Thanks for all the advice guys

Speaking to a SA/UK immigration specialist we have been advised to withdraw the application as it will almost definately be refused once we have given his visa history and that in itself will cause probs!

Not sure if I made it clear, he departed on his new passport so has departure stamp from UK but not entry stamp/visa.

So after lots of thought we are planning on getting married sooner than planned and figure the best way to do this is for me to go over to SA, marry him there and then apply for a spouse visa.

Apparently although he has overstayed on his previous visa this option is much more likely to allow him back in for the next few years until we head back to Cape Town and settle down!!!

Fingers crossed, will let you know..................

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:17 am

kate30 wrote: Speaking to a SA/UK immigration specialist we have been advised to withdraw the application as it will almost definately be refused once we have given his visa history and that in itself will cause probs!

Sorry, I am kinda lost a bit here. What application? Fiance application?
I am not sure but I thought that Fiance Application was in the Category Leading to Settlement, isn't it? If yes, there should be no problem. If no, then what your Lawyer says is probably right.

But surely, the marriage application will definitely make the case stronger if there is a substantial evidence of your relationship - the more the better!

Fingers definitely crossed! Good luck and keep us posted.

kate30 · Post by **kate30** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:14 am

Thanks Jeff,

I also thought it would be ok as its a settlement visa, but I want to give us the best chance for him to come over.

If we do continue this application and have it refused do you know whether that will cause a problem with future visa applications, I seem to be getting mixed messages.

Kate

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:14 am

Not sure if I made it clear, he departed on his new passport so has departure stamp from UK but not entry stamp/visa.

There is no such thing as a departure stamp from the UK. The UK does not perform embarkation checks and therefore does not stamp the passports of people leaving the country.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:09 am

kate30 wrote: If we do continue this application and have it refused do you know whether that will cause a problem with future visa applications, I seem to be getting mixed messages.

They always write that generally speaking the refusal decision will not prejudice future application should you wish to apply at a later date.

However, in fact, the new application will only be successful once your circumstances have changed, i.e. the refusal factor is no longer there. For example, if the ECO was dissatisfied that your relationship was genuine because of the lack of proof, it will not be until you provide sufficient evidence that you have any chance of success.

kate30 · Post by **kate30** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:27 pm

I was led to believe that they could refuse purely due to the overstay by one advisor and then the person I spoke to today contradicted this......aaarrrggghhh.

Its all too confusing!!

Today I have found out that they can't refuse the fiance visa on the grounds of his overstay previously, due to it being an entirely new application on a settlement visa. They can only refuse if they believe the actual application itself is lacking in evidence.

I have new hope, my partner is going to be totally honest and list his visa history and submit this. Then we will see what they say.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:18 pm

kate30 wrote:I was led to believe that they could refuse purely due to the overstay by one advisor and then the person I spoke to today contradicted this......aaarrrggghhh.

Its all too confusing!!

Today I have found out that they can't refuse the fiance visa on the grounds of his overstay previously, due to it being an entirely new application on a settlement visa. They can only refuse if they believe the actual application itself is lacking in evidence.

I have new hope, my partner is going to be totally honest and list his visa history and submit this. Then we will see what they say.

DONT VOLUNTEER INFORMATION UNLESS IT IS REQUESTED FOR

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:34 pm

DONT VOLUNTEER INFORMATION UNLESS IT IS REQUESTED FOR

I would second that. What is it about immigration forms that turns everyone into a blabbering idiot that's just been injected with truth serum?

I don't advocate lying, but omission of certain truths is perfectly acceptable unless those truths are specifically asked for. Are you also going to tell them about the time your boyfriend stole a chocolate from the corner shop when he was 11 years old, or the times he's drunk alcohol underage?

What's that saying......"Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies"

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:20 pm

They may locate his entry stamp into South Africa but they still cannot prove that he arrived in SA from the UK as there will be no record of him leaving the UK. He could just as easily have arrived from Mozambique or Mongolia.

Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies

Dawie, I like your style

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:48 pm

kate30 wrote:I was led to believe that they could refuse purely due to the overstay by one advisor and then the person I spoke to today contradicted this......aaarrrggghhh.

Its all too confusing!!

Today I have found out that they can't refuse the fiance visa on the grounds of his overstay previously, due to it being an entirely new application on a settlement visa. They can only refuse if they believe the actual application itself is lacking in evidence.

I have new hope, my partner is going to be totally honest and list his visa history and submit this. Then we will see what they say.

That's the thing! Advisors know nothing! This forum is your best advisor, for free and for ever. Because we all have read so many posts here, so many different stories and been through so many situations ourselves that the best knowledge is treasured here!

Any questions, any concerns - just ask!

Just remember - NO information unless your boyfriend has been asked for it!!!! We have all agreed to that, I think. Just make sure you call him and tell him that several times.

keep us posted!

Fingers and toes crossed for you.

Good luck!

kate30 · Post by **kate30** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:24 am

Yep, thanks, def got the message, no info will be given unless asked for........promise!!

He is desperately hunting for his old passport and has told them that he has mislaid it. We are waiting for the next step, will keep you posted on progress.

kate30 · Post by **kate30** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:57 pm

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know the good news, the lost passport was found, in the back of a dark drawer in Jo'Burg and we got the news today that it has all been approved, my partner has the visa in his passport, in his hand as we speak.......................................

No interview, no questions, i think we have been very lucky.

What can I say, THANK YOU for all the advice, I can't tell you how much it helped.

Post by **John** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:06 pm

Kate, congratulations to you and your fiancé. Glad it all worked out. Hope the two of you have a long and happy life together in the UK.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:45 am

kate30 wrote:Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know the good news, the lost passport was found, in the back of a dark drawer in Jo'Burg and we got the news today that it has all been approved, my partner has the visa in his passport, in his hand as we speak.......................................

No interview, no questions, i think we have been very lucky.

What can I say, THANK YOU for all the advice, I can't tell you how much it helped.

Congs and all the best for the future..

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Any advice on re- entering the UK following overstay on visa

Any advice on re- entering the UK following overstay on visa