ILR OLD WORK PERMIT HOLDERS EARNINGS REQUIREMENT

ALI74 · Post by **ALI74** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:13 am

Please share yours experiences regarding old work permit ,and add your personal hardhip story regarding earnings requirements.
There is serious need of a single platform for Workpermit Holders.
To challenge the Retrospective and Unfair rules.

Post by **geriatrix** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:25 am

If applying on/after 06-Apr-11, read point 10 in the statement of changes.

ALI74 · Post by **ALI74** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:23 pm

ALI74 wrote:Please share yours experiences regarding old work permit holders whose work permit was issued in 2006 with a fixed Salary for period of 5 years.If they will have to show earnings...when applying for ILR

Some useful information ,
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... -guidance/
I assume that the new changes will not affect the closed employment categories regarding the earning requirements.Please share your personal experiences after 6 April 2011.This is a concern for lots of Work permit Holders who were locked into fixed contract for 5 years with a fixed Salary, and were asuming that they will get ILR after 5 Years with out breaking the rules and working for the same employers.

Post by **geriatrix** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:37 pm

ALI74, you need to understand that the new rules affect current WP migrants and therefore affect you too. The link provided in my response above tells you the changes that will be introduced to ILR requirements for migrants on WP (a closed immigration category).

If changes do not affect a "closed immigration category", as you suggest, IMHO, there should be no reason(s) to include changes to immigration rules for such category / categories in the statement of changes to immigration rules. Don't you think?

ALI74 · Post by **ALI74** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:06 pm

Dear sushdmehta,

I looked again and again to the draft instructions

"Draft guidance (settlement) from 6 April 2011"

It does not mention the Closed employment Categories at all ,It only only mention the rules about Tire1,Tire2 etc But excluded Closed Categories , that means Home office is treating Closed Categories as a seperate category and work permit of 2006 are very similar to HSMP Judicial Review therefore there is a chance that Closed category may would have been excluded from the income creteria ...may be just we wish
Because there are no draft instructions available for Closed employment categories.

Although generally it appears that law will apply to work permit holder.

Post by **geriatrix** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:08 am

ALI74 wrote:Because there are no draft instructions available for Closed employment categories.

sushdmehta wrote:If applying on/after 06-Apr-11, read point 10 in the statement of changes.

littlerice · Post by **littlerice** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:29 pm

ALI74, read the Change 10 on page 6 on this,
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
It says: delete paragraph 134(iv) and substitute:...... basically the income requirement. And guess what paragraph 134(iv) is, if you read this,
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... les/part5/
and scroll down to paragraph 134, the whole paragraph is about Indefinite leave to remain for a work permit holder, so obviously the Change 10 is solely for WP holders.

The way I see it, there is only 2 ways out of this,
1, ask for a pay rise if you current salary is not far off the "code of practice" list, because if the gap is too big, having a pay rise now would require reporting to HO as "change of circumstance".
2, if your job title on the WP document is not on today's "code of practice", then that's good news, you can then choose one that's closest to the job you are doing and obviously with a not so high salary requirement.

rajivilr · Post by **rajivilr** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:41 pm

I dont think any change of salary or role needs to be informed to HO please correct me if i am wrong.

littlerice · Post by **littlerice** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:59 pm

not if it's a small change, but if you have a 50% pay rise, then questions will be asked. But as I read through other people's experience, when 5-year WP holders apply for ILR, P60 is not required (because your employer's letter would already certify that you have worked for them for continuously 5 year), so it can be seen as an accumulated annual increase.

eager2learn · Post by **eager2learn** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:14 pm

ALI74 wrote:Dear sushdmehta,

I looked again and again to the draft instructions

"Draft guidance (settlement) from 6 April 2011"

It does not mention the Closed employment Categories at all ,It only only mention the rules about Tire1,Tire2 etc But excluded Closed Categories , that means Home office is treating Closed Categories as a seperate category and work permit of 2006 are very similar to HSMP Judicial Review therefore there is a chance that Closed category may would have been excluded from the income creteria ...may be just we wish
Because there are no draft instructions available for Closed employment categories.

Although generally it appears that law will apply to work permit holder.

what is a closed employment category?

WPs of 2006 are not treated similar, they are treated far worse than HSMP JRs. we have to wait for 5 years even though our initial wp said clearly ILR after 4 years on its back!

ALI74 · Post by **ALI74** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:42 pm

My Work permit issued for salary of 16K Approved By Home Office in 2006.
My salary increased to 17K in 2007 and further increased to 18K in 2009 and I am expecting an in increase to 20K in April 2011.
My Job Descriptions,Duties and responsibilities never been changed.
I am using the same Chair and same PC, the only change is my PC old monitors was replaced by new LCD monitor .
Just I have more experience now .
And the problem is that the Code increases the salary with experience.
So according to Code i should be earning 27K with this much experience.
But my contract salary was fixed by Home Office for 5 Years ..(There is no mention by Home Office that the employer should increase the salary)
So Why would an employer pay more than than the origional Contract ,
Especially if the employer knows that employee have no where to go due to work ristrictions.And the poor employee is locked in with only one Employer from monday to friday.
I had working restrictions ..How can I compete the open Market?
If I knew that I would not get ILR ,
I Could have left (Reasonable expectations) the country.
I would have not mortgaged a House.
I could have developed a carrier some where else.
I have lost my precious 5 Years by working and paying taxes contributed and contributing to UK economy.
Now at the end of 5 years is it fair to ask to show more earnings more than my contract? while I have been binded by 5 years with fixed contract arranged (approved) BY Home Office.
I still have a reasonable progress in salary from 16K TO 20K in 5 years in a small organisation .My earnings can not be compared with a multinational company .
I have sent my appeal against the unfair rules to 3 MP's .One of them understand the problems and is trying his best to raise the issue and I have not heared from the other two.I hope any body would understand the dead lock (Vicious Circle ) of the Poor workpermit holders who spent 4 or 5 years with the hope to get ILR.
I personally think that Work permit Holder who have spent 3 years should be exepmted from earnings requirement.And who have spent less than 3 years should be allowed to find a reasonible job in the open market and if they can prove the earnings reqirement at the end ILR Should be granted.
Work permit holders of 2006,2007 and 2008 are the mostly affected and I have sympathy with people whose ILR is due in April to December.
I wish the Authirities understand the unfairness of the rules.
I appeal Human Rights charities to Understand the unfairness of the issue and play their positive role.

Post by **PaperPusher** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:25 pm

Read the back of your work permit. It says it isn't a contract of employment.

Employers can give work permit holders pay rises, it used to be up to 10% a year with no need to do anything further. If your employer had done that you would be on more.

Plenty of work permit holders switch employers too. Something you may want to consider if you are on just Â£18k after years of experience.

If you are good a new employer will want you. The list of licences sponsors is on the UKBA website. They won't even have to apply for a licence.

littlerice · Post by **littlerice** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:47 pm

ALI74, your situation is really bad, I'd suggest you find a lawyer as soon as possible.

Since the list is arbitrary, I think there is still chance to have it overturned, after all, we are just about coming out of a recession, it is not reasonable to expect anyone to have a pay rise every year.

Pierrot95 · Post by **Pierrot95** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:38 pm

ALI74 wrote:I am using the same Chair and same PC.

You managed to make me laugh, in such a tragic situation.

ALI74,
Your case raises a very serious point. In the first announcement, Ho said they intended to ask people on work visas to meet the salary criteria of their last visa application. They translated this in the rules by "salary of the code of practice" for WP holders. A total nonsense as there is no code of practice in your WP.
Ok, let's stop the blame and see what can be done about this.

1. Are you sure that your job title appears exactly in the codes of practice? If you are lucky that it is not case, you (I mean your employer) can just select a different code that is closer to your profession with a lower salary.
Remember that it is up to the employer to certify the new requirement. This means (i) suggesting a code of practice for your job and (ii) certify that you are paid above the required salary for that code.

2. If the above is not true, this means that you are officially paid below the standard requirement for the job. I'd suggest two options here:
a) Approach the union in your company to raise this issue, and they may convince your employer to correct the situation by increasing your salary.
b) One of the requirement the HO used to check when approving a WP was that the pay is not below the standard pay in the sector for British citizens. A good solicitor should be able to challenge the HO on this. By approving a WP for your position, they were saying that they agreed the salary meets the standard. Try to find the old documentation related to their internal procedures on WP.
Either HO or your employer is at fault, certainly not you. They question is which of the two is easy to fight against.

3. There is still a good chance that when the changes are approved and the guidance documents published, we realise that your case is taken into account in the transitional arrangements.

All the best.

ALI74 · Post by **ALI74** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:18 pm

I am really thankful to Sushdmehta, Rajivilr, Eager2learn,PaperPusher,Littlerice and Pierrot95 ,for your Sincere & precious suggestions ,Your comments cheered me up .

Thanks

rajivilr · Post by **rajivilr** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:36 am

Hi All,

This is really a big problem for people on wp as when we got it there was no minimum salary required as per the profession. My salary as per that should have 45k salary and i was given wp on 20k for the same post. How can these people expect a 120% rise in 5 years in such an environment when there are so many problems for even people trying to keep there existing job

Really tensed about all this as if they are looking for a rise since the original work permit was issued it is still justified but if they are looking for a 100 to 200 percent increment, they have to understand that it is just not possible in the current economic climate where people are just taking paycuts to get a new job or keep there existing one's.

Raj

tara55 · Post by **tara55** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:08 am

I raised the same concern (WP holders and Code of Practice) with UKBA and answer was....

Work permit applications were considered against occupation sheets, which set out the appropriate salary rate for that occupation, and were updated from time to time as salary rates changed.

The occupation sheets are no longer updated, as they have been replaced by the codes of practice for Tier 2. The appropriate salary rate requirement is the same and is therefore directly relevant for work permit holders.

rajivilr · Post by **rajivilr** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:27 am

Hi Tara,

I am giving you my example, I am IT manager and got wp at 20k, now they ask for 45k, so do you think that from 2006 to 2011 a person should have made 120% increase in his salary, this is ridiculous and also these occupation sheets were never in front of us to see what was what.

This will be a big challenge to overcome as when the initial statement of intent was released it said they need to show they are at a better rate than earlier but now its different.

Raj

timarli · Post by **timarli** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:03 am

For me the statement which started this conversation is ill.

"existing immigrants will have to meet the requirements at the time of application"

Ooook.
Let's see. I need 2 years for ILR. And say a year and 6 months later they'll make another change(ILR salary reqirement are increased by %40) and will make a statement saying:

"existing immigrants will have to meet the requirements at their time of application" ???

This is nonsense.

It's like saying "well yes I gave you some rights but...nah! I changed my mind, I'll take some of it back"

tara55 · Post by **tara55** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:41 pm

rajivilr wrote:Hi Tara,

I am giving you my example, I am IT manager and got wp at 20k, now they ask for 45k, so do you think that from 2006 to 2011 a person should have made 120% increase in his salary, this is ridiculous and also these occupation sheets were never in front of us to see what was what.

This will be a big challenge to overcome as when the initial statement of intent was released it said they need to show they are at a better rate than earlier but now its different.

Raj

Agree with you....

Do you know even if your company decide to raise your pay to match code of practice, HO will see this as substantial increase in salary and you will have to make fresh application for tier 2. For details see Technical Changes of Employment doc from UKBA website or search this form.

All WP holders are tied with job and salary listed in WP. We can have just normal salary increase inline with other colleagues...

rajkhan · Post by **rajkhan** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:44 pm

What is this new rule now,..i work in the NHS in a scientific and technical role with a present salary of 25k.
Will i be affected, Is it for everyone who r in the old work permit. my ilr is due in sept. my salary at time of approval of work permit was 18k.
Can someone please advise me,
Thanks.

SunnyG · Post by **SunnyG** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Similar situation for me: old wp holder, due to apply for ilr at the end of this year.

I'm not sure how risky it will be for me at the end of this year to get the ilr. I'm not sure whether the code of practice will be changed again and again in the following months. What I can do now is being worried and waiting. Don't know what else I can do now with the new rules. We've been here, working and contributing for 5 years and suddenly everything is so unclear.

We didn't have a code of practice at all when applying for the wp. The wp holders are always restricted to the one only job and can not change jobs as tier1 people.

Why we suddenly need to provide the code of pracetice now? we are not tier2, just like, the tier 1 are not quite the same with the old hsmp.

If ho agreed to give us wp at the beginning, why, after 5 years, they judge the salary based on the latest salary level? why not the original one? like tier1, the ilr will be based on the conditions when you extend your last visa. it's just so unfair for the old wp holders, I think.

Is there anything we can do now? after all, the rules will start in April subject to parliamentary approval.

eager2learn · Post by **eager2learn** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:15 pm

timarli wrote:
It's like saying "well yes I gave you some rights but...nah! I changed my mind, I'll take some of it back"

Exactly. We are soft target, they can load us with new expenses and new laws without ever being questioned. Also get more votes in election, because of "being hard with immigrants".

In future we may well see driving rights taken away from tier1/2 holders because driving is deemed to be too dangerous an activity for an immigrant! New driving conviction rules will already discourage the immigrants and use expensive trains to travel to work.

tara55 · Post by **tara55** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:36 pm

SunnyG wrote:Similar situation for me: old wp holder, due to apply for ilr at the end of this year.

I'm not sure how risky it will be for me at the end of this year to get the ilr. I'm not sure whether the code of practice will be changed again and again in the following months. What I can do now is being worried and waiting. Don't know what else I can do now with the new rules. We've been here, working and contributing for 5 years and suddenly everything is so unclear.

We didn't have a code of practice at all when applying for the wp. The wp holders are always restricted to the one only job and can not change jobs as tier1 people.

Why we suddenly need to provide the code of pracetice now? we are not tier2, just like, the tier 1 are not quite the same with the old hsmp.

If ho agreed to give us wp at the beginning, why, after 5 years, they judge the salary based on the latest salary level? why not the original one? like tier1, the ilr will be based on the conditions when you extend your last visa. it's just so unfair for the old wp holders, I think.

Is there anything we can do now? after all, the rules will start in April subject to parliamentary approval.

At least write a letter to your MP and see if he can help.

Ksenia · Post by **Ksenia** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:04 pm

Hi all,

I'm in the same situation as everyone in here. I'm due to apply for ILR first week of May. But with the new rules from 6th April, looks like I'm no longer eligible as I'm not meeting the income criteria..I work in a small family run hotel and my employer was unable to increase my salary by too much, especially taking into account economic climate for the past 2 years. Besides i cant even find anything close to my occupation in codes of practise. In Section I it says "Accommodation and food service activities" but the doc only describes Environmental health officers. The only appropriate SOC i found was in an archived copy from last year. I tried to call UKBA,but they are just as lost as i am.
ALI74, please can you forward to me a copy of your letter to MP? I want to send one to my MP as well..

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ILR OLD WORK PERMIT HOLDERS EARNINGS REQUIREMENT

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