naturalisation refused

[heyman77]

hello everyone

just checking if anyone knows if anything can be done if one is refused naturalisation due to getting public fund. my friend was recently refused and he has been working legally for 8yrs in ireland before he was made redundant. thought there is a concession for people who has worked for 5yrs and lost there job due to no fault of theirs.

All information,advice etc ctc welcomed
thanks

[IRISH PHAROE]

sorry just explain to me
did your friend work for 8 years? then became redundant before or after applying?
how long did he draw the dole?
did they asked him for further documentsafter being redudant?
is the only reason for refusal is withdrawing the dole?
Please put the full situation in here as that would be the same situation like me and I'm worried.

[heyman77]

yes he worked for eight yrs and was made redundant, but he has submitted the appication 18months before he left work, he has left work before they asked for the documents and the only reason he was refused is because of the dole

[Southern_Sky]

Did INIS actually give a specific reason for refusal?
I thought INIS never specifies a reason for the decision to refuse.
Perhaps there was some other reason?

[IRISH PHAROE]

yes he worked for eight yrs and was made redundant, but he has submitted the appication 18months before he left work, he has left work before they asked for the documents and the only reason he was refused is because of the dole

So from your answer I understood that the INIS asked him for further documents like payslips and bank statement and he failed to submitt because he had been made redundant.
Did they mentioned in the refusal letter that they refused him because he drew the dole? or what they mentioned exactly?
Please excuse me and put the full view of the situation ,just I'm in the same position and what happened to your friend may help me in taking a decision of not continue in the country anymore waitting for the citizenshipe.
as my situation is as follow
I applied then became redundant after 8 months then I drew the dole for 10 months based on that was my stamps then i got a job but with low salary 3 months ago, hoping that getting out of the dole queue would help.
Right now I spend from my savings plus the salary I'm getting in the hope of getting the citizenship but if I will not get it that mean I'd leave as I have a better job in another country.
Sorry for loading on you with my question just I need you to put the full situation to me to be able to take a decision.

[IRISH PHAROE]

Did INIS actually give a specific reason for refusal?
I thought INIS never specifies a reason for the decision to refuse.
Perhaps there was some other reason?

No southern sky, the Inis mention what are the reasons of refusal and put the full incidents if you came to the adverse attention to the garda for example.
that based on my experience i gained from the forum here

[heyman77]

reasons for refusal are always stated as you cant be refused for no reason.
I will suggest you wait for the decision to come before taking your action as i believe they treat individual cases differently, i ve seen people that they refused because of penalty points and some do say they have penalty points and yet they are still given naturalisation. so there is no need to worry.

So if there is someone out there who have been refused but appealed could you pls contribute? Thanks

[9jeirean]

reasons for refusal are always stated as you cant be refused for no reason.
I will suggest you wait for the decision to come before taking your action as i believe they treat individual cases differently, i ve seen people that they refused because of penalty points and some do say they have penalty points and yet they are still given naturalisation. so there is no need to worry.

So if there is someone out there who have been refused but appealed could you pls contribute? Thanks

The situation with your friend is very touching one. I deeply sympathize with him/her. I personally think someone who have worked and pay tax in the country should be cut some slack. It is saddening to see people who have contributed to the state getting refusals while others a la refugee with no economic contributions (no disrespect to anyone pls) are getting approval within significantly shorter time. However, to the best of my knowledge, there is currently no leave to appeal within the current naturalization frame work. The new minister for justice had promised to set one up but I am not sure if that has moved on yet. Your friend may however ask the courts for a judicial review. if previous cases are anything to go by, the prospect of a +ve outcome is not good and it could be an expensive option if the judge refused to rule the sate to take up the cost of such law suits.

Regards

9jeirean

[ostrich]

I personally think someone who have worked and pay tax in the country should be cut some slack. It is saddening to see people who have contributed to the state getting refusals while others a la refuge with no economic contributions.

Does this mean refugees don't work and pay taxes also?

[9jeirean]

Does this mean refugees don't work and pay taxes also?

It would help to read my statement in full and within the context in which it is made. Let me quote exactly what I said "....while others a la refugees with no economic contributions (no disrespect to anyone pls)" the point of emphasis is here is about people with no economic contributions. The focus of my statement is to draw attention to what appear to be the unfair treatment of those who have contributed economically rather than a judgement on everyone on refugee status as you seem to be implying.

9jeirean

[ostrich]

I suppose you need to re-read your post. Your statement is a gross generalization and that is bull***p. Convention/Programme refugees in this country gets the same stamp as you-stamp 4 which enables them to work like everybody else. Are you suggesting that they dont work or that they work and not pay taxes?
Or what do you mean by refugees with no economic contributions?

[9jeirean]

I suppose you need to re-read your post. Your statement is a gross generalization and that is bull***p. Convention/Programme refugees in this country gets the same stamp as you-stamp 4 which enables them to work like everybody else. Are you suggesting that they dont work or that they work and not pay taxes?
Or what do you mean by refugees with no economic contributions?

Seems I need to break it down for you. Just a few questions to help refocus your thinking slightly away from your knee jack reaction, despite my re-clarification of what is initially a straight forward statement.

i)Do people on refugee status who are not working or have not worked despite their stamp 4 get their naturalization refused? Yes or no please.
ii)Do migrant workers who have worked and found themselves out of work albeit for a short period of time get refused naturalization? Yes or no please.
iii)Is it out of line to highlight an obvious unfairness by comparing the fate of the 2 categories of immigrants in the hands of the DoJ?

Are you still with me? Now, let's go back and read the 1st line of the post you are taking out of context. You will realize that the 2nd sentence there in state. "I personally think someone who have worked and pay tax in the country should be cut some slack". Now that could be anyone from a migrant worker, to spouse of Irish citizen to people on EUfam including people on refugee status, do you agree?

Let's now go back to the statement under discuss. You appear to have a grasp of rudimentary English, so I am assuming that you know that when a noun if followed by an adjectival phrase, such phrases serve to qualify the noun. The phrase "with no economic contributions" qualifies the category of people I am drawing comparison with. It is of course up to you to jump into conclusions if every refugee you know have economic ties or not. So please stop reading meanings where non is implied.

Seeing as you bring about the issue of generalization, let me draw your attention to what may appear to be same in your post. Your post assume that I am on stamp 4 and thus the reason why I made my initial post. That makes me laugh because not only is your assumption absurd in so many way, it is also ironic if you know where am coming from. That however is not the focus of this thread. I'll advice you find out from people who have been on this forum for a while, they'll help to point your assumptions in the right direction.

Lastly, I hate the fact that this thread is now hijacked by this unnecessary personal back and forth. If that's your take on what should be clear statement from a balanced view point, who am I to take over the burden of your misconception. The OP did not initiate this thread for that purpose and deserves to be respected.

Am done here.


9jeirean.

[AShawna]

hello everyone

just checking if anyone knows if anything can be done if one is refused naturalisation due to getting public fund. my friend was recently refused and he has been working legally for 8yrs in ireland before he was made redundant. thought there is a concession for people who has worked for 5yrs and lost there job due to no fault of theirs.

All information,advice etc ctc welcomed
thanks

Sorry to hear about this unfortunate situation. Since there is no appeal process in place, I am not sure of what steps the people that have been refused are taking...

[nanette]

Hi Heyman77,

if I was you. And I have all the files and letter for INIS, I would write to the minister directly as follow:

My Assumption:
Your friend as find work since and he/she is not on the Dole.

But still, you should be able to get the new minister's attention.

And demand him fairness.

Depends, on how you write your letter, but if you touch key feelings, someone will contact you, I am sure.

Your letter must be well written and also evidence provided (if you are working now, payslips, P60, letter of employer etc...).

But overall demand fairness.

Note: if you want the minister to get the letter directly, send it via DHL.

Thanks,
Nanette (An bho dhearg)

hello everyone

just checking if anyone knows if anything can be done if one is refused naturalisation due to getting public fund. my friend was recently refused and he has been working legally for 8yrs in ireland before he was made redundant. thought there is a concession for people who has worked for 5yrs and lost there job due to no fault of theirs.

All information,advice etc ctc welcomed
thanks

Sorry to hear about this unfortunate situation. Since there is no appeal process in place, I am not sure of what steps the people that have been refused are taking...

[nanette]

Hey 9jeirean,

sorry that you have to put up with this...-

Nana

I suppose you need to re-read your post. Your statement is a gross generalization and that is bull***p. Convention/Programme refugees in this country gets the same stamp as you-stamp 4 which enables them to work like everybody else. Are you suggesting that they dont work or that they work and not pay taxes?
Or what do you mean by refugees with no economic contributions?

Seems I need to break it down for you. Just a few questions to help refocus your thinking slightly away from your knee jack reaction, despite my re-clarification of what is initially a straight forward statement.

i)Do people on refugee status who are not working or have not worked despite their stamp 4 get their naturalization refused? Yes or no please.
ii)Do migrant workers who have worked and found themselves out of work albeit for a short period of time get refused naturalization? Yes or no please.
iii)Is it out of line to highlight an obvious unfairness by comparing the fate of the 2 categories of immigrants in the hands of the DoJ?

Are you still with me? Now, let's go back and read the 1st line of the post you are taking out of context. You will realize that the 2nd sentence there in state. "I personally think someone who have worked and pay tax in the country should be cut some slack". Now that could be anyone from a migrant worker, to spouse of Irish citizen to people on EUfam including people on refugee status, do you agree?

Let's now go back to the statement under discuss. You appear to have a grasp of rudimentary English, so I am assuming that you know that when a noun if followed by an adjectival phrase, such phrases serve to qualify the noun. The phrase "with no economic contributions" qualifies the category of people I am drawing comparison with. It is of course up to you to jump into conclusions if every refugee you know have economic ties or not. So please stop reading meanings where non is implied.

Seeing as you bring about the issue of generalization, let me draw your attention to what may appear to be same in your post. Your post assume that I am on stamp 4 and thus the reason why I made my initial post. That makes me laugh because not only is your assumption absurd in so many way, it is also ironic if you know where am coming from. That however is not the focus of this thread. I'll advice you find out from people who have been on this forum for a while, they'll help to point your assumptions in the right direction.

Lastly, I hate the fact that this thread is now hijacked by this unnecessary personal back and forth. If that's your take on what should be clear statement from a balanced view point, who am I to take over the burden of your misconception. The OP did not initiate this thread for that purpose and deserves to be respected.

Am done here.


9jeirean.

[9jeirean]

Hey 9jeirean,

sorry that you have to put up with this...-

Nana

Not at all mate. It's an open forum after all. We all live to learn every day.

Hey how about that bottle of Guinness I owe you this weekend? it will be a shame to waste this glorious weather after all.

Take care mate.

9j

[IRISH PHAROE]

reasons for refusal are always stated as you cant be refused for no reason.
I will suggest you wait for the decision to come before taking your action as i believe they treat individual cases differently, i ve seen people that they refused because of penalty points and some do say they have penalty points and yet they are still given naturalisation. so there is no need to worry.

So if there is someone out there who have been refused but appealed could you pls contribute? Thanks

You are right Heyman77, as I contacted one of my friends and he told me that his friend got the approval on 2010 after withdrawing the dole for 6 months during the process time also he was getting allowance for his mortgage.
so it is not consistant in this department.
For your Friend, Did he went back to work after being redundant? or he got the refusal letter while he was in the dole?

[ostrich]

I suppose you need to re-read your post. Your statement is a gross generalization and that is bull***p. Convention/Programme refugees in this country gets the same stamp as you-stamp 4 which enables them to work like everybody else. Are you suggesting that they dont work or that they work and not pay taxes?
Or what do you mean by refugees with no economic contributions?

Seems I need to break it down for you. Just a few questions to help refocus your thinking slightly away from your knee jack reaction, despite my re-clarification of what is initially a straight forward statement.

i)Do people on refugee status who are not working or have not worked despite their stamp 4 get their naturalization refused? Yes or no please.
ii)Do migrant workers who have worked and found themselves out of work albeit for a short period of time get refused naturalization? Yes or no please.
iii)Is it out of line to highlight an obvious unfairness by comparing the fate of the 2 categories of immigrants in the hands of the DoJ?

Are you still with me? Now, let's go back and read the 1st line of the post you are taking out of context. You will realize that the 2nd sentence there in state. "I personally think someone who have worked and pay tax in the country should be cut some slack". Now that could be anyone from a migrant worker, to spouse of Irish citizen to people on EUfam including people on refugee status, do you agree?

Let's now go back to the statement under discuss. You appear to have a grasp of rudimentary English, so I am assuming that you know that when a noun if followed by an adjectival phrase, such phrases serve to qualify the noun. The phrase "with no economic contributions" qualifies the category of people I am drawing comparison with. It is of course up to you to jump into conclusions if every refugee you know have economic ties or not. So please stop reading meanings where non is implied.

Seeing as you bring about the issue of generalization, let me draw your attention to what may appear to be same in your post. Your post assume that I am on stamp 4 and thus the reason why I made my initial post. That makes me laugh because not only is your assumption absurd in so many way, it is also ironic if you know where am coming from. That however is not the focus of this thread. I'll advice you find out from people who have been on this forum for a while, they'll help to point your assumptions in the right direction.

Lastly, I hate the fact that this thread is now hijacked by this unnecessary personal back and forth. If that's your take on what should be clear statement from a balanced view point, who am I to take over the burden of your misconception. The OP did not initiate this thread for that purpose and deserves to be respected.

Am done here.


9jeirean.

Its unnecessary to drag this on and on.But here are the points i want you to note.
1.Its wrong to compare a convention/Programme refugee with a migrant worker.
2.its out of place to generalize on a public forum-especially on issues you are not up to date about.
Sorry if i have touched a cord, as you said its an open forum and we all live to learn everyday so take it as a man and move on.

[ostrich]

Sorry OP
Didn't mean to divert your thread.