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settlement visa refused

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deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

settlement visa refused

Post by deland » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:52 am

Hi there,
I'm new on here and would like help on our visa that was refused, I'm english and my wife is thai, at the moment we have already sent in for an appeal and that has been reveiwed by the ECM and still been refused so now it's going for a full appeal :( I am at a loss as to what they want from us? Right rather then writing all the refusal letter on here is there anyway of adding attachments to this post as i can't see anything :?:

Well tried to get help here But nothing seems to happen???
So does anyone know when doing an appeal and things in your life change when it gets to an appeal hearing can you show them that things have gotten good since the refusal???

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:35 pm

Hi is there anyone here that can answer any questions for me????????? Please?

iceman010899
Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: London

Post by iceman010899 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:27 pm

Hi,

What are the reasons for refusal and refusal of appeal ?

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:50 pm

Hi there, it's a long story really but i was living in thailand with my wife and decided to come back here,uk, so i/we done a application for a settlement visa, i don't have a home of my own here but stay with my daughter and her boyfriend and 5yr old grandson, they have a spare room for me so i did a copy of my daughter's contract and a letter from her rental agent and a letter from my daughter inviting us to stay! this is what they wrote in refusal: Your sponsor has stated that you will live with him in his daughters house, i note that there has been no evidence submitted to satisfy me that your sponsors daughters property would not be overcrowded by your presence, Additionally, sharing accommodation with your sponsors daughters family does not demonstrate that you will be living in a property that is owned or occupied exclusively as required by paragraph 281 (iv)
There are other thing's that i/we was turned down on but those i understand, but this i'm at a loss???? What is it that they want?

I will write the other parts of refusal later,

Is there any why to add attachments here ?

Oh and appeal has not been done yet it's still at the embassy stage in bangkok!!

Thanks [/list]

Kitty
Senior Member
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:54 am
Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:35 pm

Read: Maintenance and Accommodation

You need to provide evidence of the number of rooms in your daughter's property, and their dimensions: your local council or an estate agent can produce a property report for immigration purposes.

You and your wife must have at least one room in the house (e.g. a bedroom) for your own sole use.

What were the other reasons for refusal?

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:43 pm

Thanks for that but they had my daughters contract and a letter from their agent and a letter from my daughter with all the rooms and sizes and photo's of every room,

To tell you the truth all those rules i don't understand most of them, its just page after page of ?????

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:37 pm

Does anyone know if you can bring in a 3rd party sponsor at the time it goes to appeal?

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:43 pm

Kitty wrote: What were the other reasons for refusal?
Hi kitty here is a copy of our refusal:
you state that your sponsor is not employed in the uk and he has submitted no evidence to the contrary.
I note as evidence of funds your sponsor has submitted a bangkok bank account in his name which demonstrates funds of 452,277 baht (£9045 using £1=50thb) at 17/09/10. This however does not serve to give me a true and accurate picture of your sponsor's financial incomings and outgoings,his overall financial circumstances nor that this money in it's entirety could be transferred to the uk,
Additionally your sponsor has to demonstrate any funds or saving in a uk bank account in his name that could be readily used to support you in the uk. indeed given that your sponsor has no employment no regular income or salary and no evidence of funds available in the uk, I am not satisfied that you will be able to maintain yourselves and any indendants adequately without recourse to pulic funds,
Your sponsor has stated that you will live with him in his daughters house I note that there has been no evidence submitted to satisfy me that your sponsor's daughter's property would not be overcrowded by your presence. Additionally sharing accommodation with your sponsor's daugher's family does not demonstrate that you will living in a propery that is owned or occupied exclusively as required by paragraph 281 (iv)
I have therefore refused your application...... blah blah blah

Kitty
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Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:54 am
Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:25 pm

deland wrote:I note as evidence of funds your sponsor has submitted a bangkok bank account in his name which demonstrates funds of 452,277 baht (£9045 using £1=50thb) at 17/09/10. This however does not serve to give me a true and accurate picture of your sponsor's financial incomings and outgoings,his overall financial circumstances nor that this money in it's entirety could be transferred to the uk
OK, the problem the Entry Clearance Officer has with your bank statement is that it just shows a lump sum, presumably with no history of transactions etc. on the account. The requirement is that the money is actually "available to you": that means ECOs are suspicious of simple savings statements because the money could just have been lent to you for immigration purposes, and you might not havit available to you when your spouse comes to the UK.

Have you now transferred your savings to a UK bank account? How much money do you have available to you now?

The basic rule about new evidence in appeal hearings is that evidence of changed circumstances since the decision date is not accepted. However, you can use evidence that comes into your hands after the decision, BUT which confirms the state of play when you applied.

The ECO complains that there is no evidence that your Thai savings could be transferred to the UK. You can present money transfer documents, and and recent bank statements to prove him wrong (If that's what you've actually done of course).

You could also put together a document showing your expected monthly outgoings as a couple.
Your sponsor has stated that you will live with him in his daughters house I note that there has been no evidence submitted to satisfy me that your sponsor's daughter's property would not be overcrowded by your presence.
It looks like the ECO did not consider the description of the property supplied by your daughter, and the photos etc.

You should point this out in the appeal. Your daughter can give evidence abvout her property at the appeal hearing, and you could also get an independent property report as back-up.
Additionally sharing accommodation with your sponsor's daugher's family does not demonstrate that you will living in a propery that is owned or occupied exclusively as required by paragraph 281 (iv)
I have therefore refused your application...... blah blah blah
How many rooms (other than Spam/bathrooms) does your daughter's house have? House-sharing is allowed as long as you have a room to yourselves, and the property is not overcrowded:

"If the accommodation is not owned by the couple (or one of them), the Rules require that there be adequate accommodation which is for their exclusive use. This need not be as elaborate as a self-contained flat. It is acceptable for a couple to live in an existing household, e.g. that of a parent, uncle, aunt, sibling or friend, as long as they have at least a bedroom for their exclusive use." (See MAA12 in the link I posted earlier)

Again, it seems that they have not considered the evidence about the property.

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:36 pm

Hi kitty thanks for your reply my story is an odd one as i was living in thatland with my wife, i am now back here in the uk and the money that i did have has now gone down to about £3000 and the address that my daughter was at has now changed as we all now rent a 4 bedroom house together so this is why i asked about things changing when it comes to appeal,

Sadly i don't have a job yet this is why i'd like to bring my daughter and her boyfriend in as 3rd party sponsors?

i phoned the appeal place today and tried to get imfo out of them but that was hard work no help there! all they could tell me was that the appeal is in april and if i'd like an oral hearing then i need to put it in writing and then maybe they will consider it?? up to a judge!!

Does this form have to be filled in http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/ ... ponsorform

Kitty
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Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:45 pm

Have you only made an application for an appeal "on the papers" at the moment? Or have you got a date for an oral hearing?

How much money do your daughter and her husband have to support you with? (and did they have this level of earnings/savings at the refusal date?) They will need to give evidence of their ability and intention to support you.

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Kitty wrote:Have you only made an application for an appeal "on the papers" at the moment? Or have you got a date for an oral hearing?

How much money do your daughter and her husband have to support you with? (and did they have this level of earnings/savings at the refusal date?) They will need to give evidence of their ability and intention to support you.
Hi Kitty, i made a paper appeal as i was in thailand but now i'm in uk, i phone the appeal place up and they told me to send letter to get it changed to oral,

As for my daughter and husband they we're never used on the application as 3rd sponsors but as i live with then just wondered if they can now be used with refrence to sponsorship re money as they we're used re accommodation, and there income is about £600 take home awk,

But as said before i have £3000 now saved.

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:30 am

Hi kitty, do you have anymore advice?????? or anyone else???? Thanks.

Kitty
Senior Member
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:54 am
Location: Southampton, UK

Post by Kitty » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:11 am

deland, if you want to go ahead with an oral hearing, you will need your daughter and her boyfriend to provide bank statements and give evidence in person to the Tribunal. They will have to convince the judge that they have enough money AND that their offer to support you is genuine and won't be withdrawn.

As a rule they should have at least income support level finances for the whole household after rent, council tax and any standing loan repayments are paid.

Remember that the appeal should still focus on how things were at the date your wife was originally refused: your evidence should reflect that.

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:21 am

Hi kitty i don't think i'll go for an oral hearing as that could be a long time until a hearing where as the paper hearing will be heard this month,

I will use my daughter as a 3rd sponsor as i've got nothing too lose,

The one thing that i never sent in with the application was a council tax bill would this still be ok to send in for appeal now?

And also this did i need to sign this and send to them, http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/ ... ponsorform

Thanks again kitty

SoHopeful
Senior Member
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:01 pm

Post by SoHopeful » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:50 am

It does seem as though the ECOs want more clarity about the situation with you living with your daughter and her family. If they are happy disclosing income/savings/etc, it may be worth creating a budgeting sheet with their incomings and outgoings to demonstrate the financial situation in the household and that they are happy to be 3rd party sponsors until you find a job. You may also want to (in addition to proof of and how you accumulated your savings) show how you will be using your savings as income. You could go by the benefit rate of the amount the government deem suitable for a couple to live on and show how long your savings would last with this in mind.

Hope that made sense :roll:

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:57 am

Thank-you sohopeful, It all made sense,

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Visa appeal

Post by deland » Sat May 14, 2011 1:48 pm

For those looking on here, I didn't use my daughter as a 3rd party sponsor, nor did i go to the appeal just did paper appeal, plus i have thanked people for their help and will give feedback as to the outcome of appeal when i get it? OK

SoHopeful
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Post by SoHopeful » Sat May 14, 2011 5:59 pm

Good luck! :D

deland
- thin ice -
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm
Location: rainham, kent

Post by deland » Sat May 14, 2011 8:08 pm

SoHopeful wrote:Good luck! :D
Thanks i need it :wink:

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