VAF5 form and processing delay, prior convictions ?

[drkstr]

Hello all.

I've enjoyed reading many of the posts on this board... intriguing stuff mentioned and some very knowledgeable people.

On to the point. I'm an American national living in The Netherlands, with my wife and son who are both German nationals. I've been offered a dream job recently in the UK and decided to quit work here and relocate. To get myself started I had originally planned for all of us to simply fly over together on our German and American passports, sort out our housing, and submit the applications for EEA1 and EEA2 well in advance of the start date of the new job for the sake of everyone's comfort.

After I had interviewed for the job back in January, I was asked at some point by human resources if I have "unspent convictions". I had to ask for an explaination !

I have two drink driving convictions in the United States. One conviction took place in 1996, the other in 2000. I only paid a fine for the first one and attended some classes, and for the second I was sentenced to a larger fine and one day jail, and after this I went through a whole year of full time residential alcohol and drug rehab, and really cleaned up my act. Since then I've been successfully employed, moved to The Netherlands, been married and had a kid, and will never drive under the influence again gauranteed.

Well, I got the job and to my surprise I didn't even have to formally disclose the embarrasing drink driving convictions from more than 10 years ago. In my own country I'd definitely have to disclose these. What a civil country the UK is in this respect !

I had already filled in most of the EEA1 and EEA2 forms, and noticed that the Rehabilitation of Offender Act also is used by the Border Agency. How convenient. No need to request court documents from the US, which could take a lot of time.

So, here's where the confusing part comes. The company that offered me pushed back my start date, and hired an immigration solicitor to prepare the applications for me. The solicitor recommended that I apply for a family permit first before travelling to the UK, and asked me for a bunch of information. Then she prepared a VAF5 form for me which she sent back and asked me to sign. I applied for the family permit on April 4 in Dusseldorf.

On the VAF5 form, I've noticed that the "Rehabilitation of Offenders" bit is not there ! I didn't disclose my convictions. Should I have ? I've read other posts here recommending to always disclose. I didn't realize this at all when I was applying... It was no worries !

The application has been processed for 11 working days so far, and I've heard nothing. That seems to be an unusually long time for the EEA family permit application submitted from Dusseldorf. My start date for the job is approaching rapidly and this is starting to make me really nervous !

Firstly, is it even remotely possible that I could be refused under "public policy" or anything else from the EU directive, for only those convictions ?

Secondly, could the discovery of those convictions be the cause of the unexpected processing delay ? I hope it doesn't really annoy the border agency staff, especially the fact that I didn't disclose them.

Any comments or advice on this would be vastly appreciated. My wife and I have quit our jobs already in The Netherlands, and are in the process of selling my house. If I had any kind of refusal because of the convictions, this would be a complete disaster for me. It could ruin my life, at least in the short term. Needless to say I am losing sleep over this.

Thanks and Regards

[fysicus]

The convictions you mention are nothing to worry about. I am worried however, about your arithmetic skills: it is only five calendar days since 4 April, but you say it is already 11 working days!
Why did you submit the application in Dusseldorf, and not in Amsterdam, as you are living in NL?

Now serious again: the only thing that can cause problems is the requirement that your wife must be exercising treaty rights in the UK, for you to benefit from the generous EU rules. But she can do so by claiming to be self-sufficient and you providing the family income.

[toni34]

The convictions you mention are nothing to worry about. I am worried however, about your arithmetic skills: it is only five calendar days since 4 April, but you say it is already 11 working days!
Why did you submit the application in Dusseldorf, and not in Amsterdam, as you are living in NL?

Now serious again: the only thing that can cause problems is the requirement that your wife must be exercising treaty rights in the UK, for you to benefit from the generous EU rules. But she can do so by claiming to be self-sufficient and you providing the family income.

if you are aplying for a family permit you eea spouce or partner need not be working,read the ukba site,you can apply for eea2 and eea1 for you and your wife when you settled finally in england.also your prior conviction has nothing to do with the delay since it happened long ago.

[drkstr]

Sorry about that, got mixed up on the dates.

It was submitted first thing in the morning on March 28, which would be 10 working days. Funny thing is I'm an engineer by trade !

I submitted in Dusseldorf because the Amsterdam Worldbridge office is now non-existant and Netherlands applicants are instructed to apply in Dusseldorf.

Recently the UK consulate in Dusseldorf has also been closed, meaning that Worldbridge had to send my application to Croydon for processing !!

I read an article somewhere that last month it was announced that 1400 staff members in the Croydon office would have to re-apply for only 540 jobs (!)... talk about cuts ! Maybe I shouldn't be too worried about delay as far as the results go, but I am concerned about it affecting my start date at this new job (which is April 26). I might complain to home office in a few more days if it'll do any good.

Anyways thanks for relieving me a little bit of this dread... I read somewhere (don't remember where exactly) that if an EEA applicant has two or more convictions within a five year period, and those convictions would carry a maximum sentence of 12 months or more if committed in the UK (which the two DUIs would just barely), or if s/he has even minor convictions of the same type which show a propensity to re-offend, that that could be grounds for refusal under "public policy". In this case would the rehabilitation of offends act be considered, so that the convictions are "spent" and not considered at all in processing, or am I misunderstanding something else (like, the convictions have to be violent in nature, drug or sex related, or something ?)... Can't find much more info online.

By the way, were it not for these "generous EU rules", I probably would not have accepted this job offer to begin with (or quit my current one), and probably the job offer would not have been extended in the first place.

I find it quite unbelievable that this new conservative government is restricting employement related immigration to the extremes that it is. Particularly Tier-1 and Tier-2 visas, which aren't even granted any more at all ! This is really hurting UK based buisiness, believe me. The company I'll be working for is an emerging tech company that should rightly be considered the pride of the UK, and they're having difficulty staffing very critical projects. The type of workers that they need simply cannot be had on the UK/EU labor market alone, and when they are 100% restricted from additional Tier-2 it means that either their projects simply don't get done, benefitting their giant US-based competitor, or the work is outsourced out of EU entirely and some remaining UK employees lose their jobs. Either way it's not good for the UK if you ask me. I can completely understand the government wanting to crack down on rediculous "fake students" and "highly skilled migrants" that aren't, but 100% restrictions across the board are harmful.

As far as exercising treaty rights, we'll be self-sufficient. The solicitor thought that it would be sufficient to send them three bank statements from the last three months (showing big $$) and a letter declaring our intent to purchase comprehensive sickness insurance from a UK based provider once we've moved there (I understand that only a letter is needed and not a policy document because we don't have to actually exercise treaty rights immediately upon arrival, only just intend to exercise them after three months). Do you agree ?

I'm not always impressed by these solicitors to tell you the truth. They were very slow in preparing our application (more than 6 weeks !) and they don't respond very much to phone calls or emails (many times not at all). I think I could have done better to just prepare the thing myself, relying on the online info at the UKBA website and the advice from helpful people like yourself on this board.

Thanks and Regards

[fysicus]

Yes, there is indeed an initial grace period of three months so all you have to do at this stage is to convince the ECO of your good intentions and provide a credible picture of how your wife will be exercising treaty rights after those three months. As a US citizen you can enter the UK without a visa anyway, so even in the unlikely event of the EEA Family Permit being denied you can still move to the UK and apply for a Residence Card straightaway once you are here.

And I also fully agree with your opinion of lawyers. For applications under EEA regulations you really don't need them, perhaps except in some exotic cases. At least I never needed one myself.
I can however somewhat understand why your prospective employer urged you to use a sollicitor. Employers in the UK are not very well aware of the immigration rules and they are very scared to be fined for employing illegal workers.

[drkstr]

Good point. The solicitor seems to be working for the employer to cover their butts, but not much for the end customer.

Anyhow I spoke to the solicitor again yesterday on the phone.

Something else came up in my case... I think my wife my have gotten caught by a camera 2 or 3 years ago going more than 40 km over the speed limit on the motorway (she's German, go figure ), which in the Netherlands is treated as a traffic conviction I believe (not mearly a fine, although it seems like only a fine because a bill is simply sent to your home address and you only need to pay it). The car that she drives every day is registered in my name, so any traffic convictions that she gets could possibly appear on my judicial record and I may not even know about it.

When I realized this it was too late because I'd already submitted the EEA permit application.

However, I brought it up to the solicitor and she seems to think that it could be a problem. She said that "there are measures that they (UKBA) could take if they suspected fraud"... etc.

..but, everything that I read in the caseworker instuctions, EU directive, and in other posts on this board indicate to me that there's NO WAY that this could be a problem for an EEA family permit application, unless the ECO were to make a mistake. A failure to disclose a conviction (even if it was intentional) would not in itself be grounds for refusal, and a single traffic offense like this with no accident or injury (my wife is actually a pretty good driver ) isn't even relevant anyhow even if it's unspent as it couldn't possibly result in refusal under the "public safety, sucurity, health etc." clause.

Am I reading this correctly ? I find it strange that a professional solicitor wouldn't understand such basic points in the laws.

I think if the permit were to get refused on grounds on not providing sufficient evidence of my wife's means and intentions to exercise treaty rights after three months (because of the "comprehensive sickness insurance," for example) that I'd consider doing what you suggest and just go the UK, apply for the EEA1 / EEA2 cards, and start work when we get the COA. It's what I had thought about doing anyhow before I got mixed up with these screwy solicitors !

Note to anyone reading this who is considering an EEA family permit:

There are large scale and worldwide delays right now in processing all types of UK visa applications, due to some severe changes that have been made to the UKBA / home office infrastructure in the past two months. If you already have entry clearance to the UK (or even if you don't !) it's advisable to consider going there without the permit and applying for the residence cards straight away.

Thanks and Regards

[fysicus]

Am I reading this correctly ? I find it strange that a professional solicitor wouldn't understand such basic points in the laws.

Yes, I think you are correct. I also don't see how a speeding offence in itself could cause a problem for your EEA Family Permit (or Residence Card later on). First of all, I would be surprised if UKBA have access to this sort of information in other countries in the first place.

My prejudice on lawyers tells me that they have some sort of reflex which forces them to say that everything can cause a problem, and that you need them to sort it out.

The fact that you just got a bill sent to you (as the registered keeper of the car) about this offence proves that it is considered as a minor offence only. You could of course have refused to pay and contest the fine in court if you wished. For serious offences the prosecutor does not offer you this choice and you will have to appear in court in such cases.

[86ti]

Note to anyone reading this who is considering an EEA family permit:

There are large scale and worldwide delays right now in processing all types of UK visa applications, due to some severe changes that have been made to the UKBA / home office infrastructure in the past two months. If you already have entry clearance to the UK (or even if you don't !) it's advisable to consider going there without the permit and applying for the residence cards straight away.

Interesting but you really need to provide the source for this piece of information. Not having a EEA FP may be practically impossible for visa nationals.

[drkstr]

From UKBA:

"Motoring offences dealt with by way of a fixed penalty notice are not criminal convictions."

I think how it works in The Netherlands is that if a camera catches a car going faster than the speed limit, a fixed fine is applied up to 40 km/hour. If the speed is more than 40 km/hour over then the license number of the car is turned over to a civil servant in the office of the local civil courts ("kantonrechter" in Dutch) who decides the amount of the fine and sends a payment notice (which on paper looks nearly identical to the fixed fine notices). In all cases the fine is charged to the owner of the vehicle, and no special effort is made to identify the driver. The fines for going more than 40 km/hour are recorded somewhere, and it may be in the same database that's used to store criminal convictions (although I'm not 100% sure of this).

If the UKBA were in any way annoyed to discover something like this that wasn't disclosed, is it in their general policy to contact the applicant directly and interview them, to give them a fair chance to explain, or would they try to use 320(7a) straight away ?

86ti,

I don't have any information to back up what I wrote about visa nationals... maybe I should take that back !

Thanks and Regards

[86ti]

If the UKBA were in any way annoyed to discover something like this that wasn't disclosed, is it in their general policy to contact the applicant directly and interview them, to give them a fair chance to explain, or would they try to use 320(7a) straight away ?

If that 320(7a) is from the Immigration Rules then you can safely ignore it as they don't apply to EEA nationals and their family members. You have to look what the EEA regulations have to say.

[drkstr]

Hmm, yes, I knew that it's not legal to refuse an EEA national / family member under 320, but I also found this today:

"If a non-EEA family member of an EEA national is applying for an EEA Family Permit under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006, they cannot be refused under Paragraph 320 of the Immigration Rules. If they are applying under the Immigration Rules eg. as a visitor, they can be refused under the Immigration Rules. Non-EEA family members of an EEA national applying for EEA Family Permits, who are not legally resident in the EEA and are coming from outside the EEA will also need to meet criteria under the Immigration Rules as allowed for
by the EEA Regulations."

Note the last bit about not being legally resident in the EEA.

I've been legally resident in The Netherlands for 8+ years now... BUT, when I was submitting the supporting documents at the Worldbridge, I realized that I was being asked to submit my original copies of BOTH my passport and my Netherlands residence permit !

This isn't legal in The Netherlands. Non-Dutch MUST have their residence cards in possession in public at all times or they subject to criminal sanctions including arrest, especially if they are unable to produce a passport.

I talked to the Worldbridge staff about it, and was told that people commonly leave only copies of their residence cards. So I did this, I submitted a scanned color copy of the front side of my residence card instead of the card itself. I attached a handwritten note explaining my reasoning. Unfortunately the copy wasn't notarized or anything similar.

Now this is probably a bit far-fetched, but what if the UKBA doesn't accept this as evidence of permanent Netherlands residence, and shot my application through an immigration track, where it's subject to paragraph 320 ? Is this possible ? How would the possibility of having a traffic offense that was mistakenly not disclosed come in to play then ?

fysicus, I wasn't really considering what the UKBA does or doesn't have access to information system wise, only legally where I stand (and what I could do in the worst case). You're probably right though for the time being...

[86ti]

Prior residence in the EEA is not relevant anymore since Metock. Please, if you cite anything here make it also clear where it comes from.

[drkstr]

Sorry for the misinformation. I admit it's probably out of date. The web page I pasted it from was dated 2008

So I have to stop second-guessing and just wait for the decision. I expect it to be approved if the sickness insurance letter is accepted.

I'll post the results and the processing time (also of interest because of the backlog due to the very recent changes in the border agency) when available.

Thanks


PS. Still gotta wonder why the solicitors and Worldbridge offices ask for original residence permits (or certified copies) in EU countries if it's completely irrelevant for making the decisions

[ukde]

drkstr,
We are facing a similar problem with the long processing time. I am a German national and my wife is non-EU. We already got the EEA family permit in Sep'2010 and moved to the UK. Back then it took just about 4 working days to get the passport back. In the UK, we didn't apply for the residence card as we intent to be here only for an year (studies).

We went to Germany on vacation and on the very first day applied for the EEA permit once more as it had expired for my wife and it wouldn't be possible for her to re-enter UK on an expired permit. This was on Apr 4th. Its 13th now and we are still waiting. I had to fly back due to my studies but my wife and kid are still stuck in Germany. We had called World Bridge before we travelled to ask if the closing down of the Dusseldorf embassy would result in delays and they explicitly told us that we should add just about 2 additional days to the usual processing time. Well, after reading your case and the fact that its been 7 days now since we submitted the application, I have a feeling that applications submitted to Dusseldorf will probably take much longer to be processed than the duration mentioned on their website. Very misleading and very unprofessional.

[drkstr]

ukde,

Thanks for the info. Not very re-assuring, but at least it's good to know that there's not necessarily something wrong with my particular application that's causing the delay.

If the delay gets to be long, like more than 15 working days for example, what recourse is there ? Would it help to complain to the UKBA ? I've already sent them email but they don't answer. Anyone else know a different route ? I don't have an MP to write.

Thanks

[ukde]

I already called up the UKBA hotline here and they said they couldn't help me in anyway. They asked me to contact World Bridge and those guys say that they cannot state anything about how much time it would take for the application to be processed (after having charged $14 for a call).

But the processing time in your case is already 17 days (which is really scaring me!). The processing time suggested on the World Bridge site is 10 days for 100% of the applications. In one of their e-mails, World Bridge mentioned that we could get in touch with them if 15 days have already passed. So it might be worthwhile to write again to World Bridge or even call them since the processing time is way beyond what is suggested on their site.

[drkstr]

Hey ukde,

Called Croydon directly today, of course they couldn't tell me anything.

emailed the solicitor, no reply.

Wrote to some dude that I found online who also submitted an EEA FP application at Dusseldorf on March 16 (21 working days ago, or just short of a month !) and still no word that it's being processed !! He has one of the most straightforward applications possible, too (temporary stay).

I will try Worldbridge again, but I've emailed them already and gotten basically the same response as you did, with a link to the "guide to processing times" pages.

I had a thought. Dusseldorf is now sending all the FP applications to the UK for processing... Just up until a month or so ago, isn't it true that the FP applications from everywhere were only processed outside of the UK, at consular offices and such ? If this is true, then it's also true that the offices in the UK handling the FP applications from Dusseldorf now have no past experience in processing those, and may not be aware that priority has to be given to those applications. That is indeed a scary idea since it would mean that we could be waiting for months. Could maybe SolvIT help in such a scenario ?

[ukde]

21 working days?!! This is just insane.

How effective is SolvIT? Any idea how quickly they respond?

[drkstr]

Just sent to UKBA:

"Processing problem for EEA family permit applications submitted from Dusseldorf, Germany since March 1, 2011

My aim is to report a major problem with processing of EEA family permit applications submitted within the EU. With the recent closure of the Dusseldorf consulate office, all UK visa applications submitted through Worldbridge in Dusseldorf are now routed through Croydon into the UK for processing.

I have submitted an EEA family permit application on March 28, to enable me to take up employment in the UK on April 26. According to the UKBA web site, most of these types of applications submitted in Dusseldorf can be expected (based on data from February, 2011) to be processed within three working days, and all of them are processed within ten working days. My application has been under submission for 14 working days now and has yet to be processed. My wife and I are both left without passports, and further delay could soon jeopardize my employment.

I've made some contact with other EU residents who have also submitted EEA family permit applications at Dusseldorf in the month of March and are still waiting. In one case somebody submitted an application on March 16 (one month ago) and has yet to receive anything back.

It appears that something is going wrong internally in the UKBA, and none of the EEA family permit applications submitted from Dusseldorf since March are being processed. These types of applications normally should be given priority over others and it appears that they are not.

Please look into this problem immediately.

We will collectively approach parliament with this if the waiting times begin to exceed 30 working days (six calendar weeks) for non-settlement applications. I hope that we won't have too."


ukde, you should also complain. email them and call them. The more complaints they're receiving, the more likely that someone will take action.

Rgds

[86ti]

SOLVIT give themselves a time of 10 weeks for resolution but that's not even guaranteed.

[drkstr]

ukde,

I wouldn't worry too much... seems like the problem isn't as bad as I'd thought it might be.

Just got the FP today. Was approved, no problem.

In the end, the total waiting time between Worldbridge visits was 13 working days.

Good luck

[ukde]

drkstr,

This is a big relief! Thanks for the update. Since we applied exactly a week after you did, I can expect something by end of next week.

Did you get your documents today already? If yes, then that would mean that the status on the website did not really reflect the actually status, right?

Thanks once again.

[drkstr]

Yes, I picked them up first thing in the morning.

Waiting time was about 3 days longer than the longest times reported on the web site for February, 2011, which isn't too far from what Worldbridge claimed (2 days longer on average).

By the way, I had emailed this address two days ago with a complaint about the delay:

NWCSU@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

And yesterday they already wrote back with this:

"Thank you for the email.

I have sent this to the correct team to action, they will be in contact ith you shortly.

Kind regards
NW CSU
mg"

That doesn't look like an automated response. That particular email address seems like a good one for reporting delay wrt EEA applications (from what I read they don't handle regular immigration visas though).

Regards

[86ti]

That's actually the wrong email address as the NW service only deals with EEA residence documentation hence the message saying that the email was forwarded to the correct team.

[modemfish]

My wife made her EEA family perimt application on April 1 dusseldorf. Still no news
Good luck to everyone