5 years for ILR rule implemented

[BadPaul]

I have had correspondence with BAPIO in the last days and they have shared with me the names of their advisors in the court case against HO, it is impressive !!!

Someone from VBSI please get in contact with me and I will pass on the info ( By the way, how can I formally join VBSI - although I feel I am part of it since May - ? And how can we make it a legal entity with a registered address and bank account? )

To summarize the progress so far on the court case :
- I had a reputable law firm confirming they will be willing to take our case ( see my previous post )
- got info on who is representing BAPIO, we could get in touch with them as well
- supertiger is chasing the lawyer who officially submitted the judicial review request ( it is crucial to get an answer on this !! ).

BR,

Paul

[chibuya]

I also have some bad feelings too

Despite that we are re-assure ourselves that there will be no further changes, I could not help wondering there will be some ' disirable' solutions on the back of the HO's mind

Let us look the big picture and some worring signs

1 there are more and more immigrants from East European countries, around 500,000 of them come to the UK in 2005

2 A survey shows that most people think this country is too crowded

3 All the doctor students are forced to get a work permit unless they are gratuated from the UK or European students. Otherwise they become ' no needed' all in a sudden.

4 the Home office are under pressure of sorting things out

5 a bill passed early this year gave the ministers extended right which makes their decisions could hardly be overturned by MPs

Most dangously, HO did not reveal what do they ' desire ' for people like us

[chibuya]

That is very cool! I think as long as a law firm decide to take this case means there are chances to challege the HO!!

Could we work out a way to collect money?

I have had correspondence with BAPIO in the last days and they have shared with me the names of their advisors in the court case against HO, it is impressive !!!

Someone from VBSI please get in contact with me and I will pass on the info ( By the way, how can I formally join VBSI - although I feel I am part of it since May - ? And how can we make it a legal entity with a registered address and bank account? )

To summarize the progress so far on the court case :
- I had a reputable law firm confirming they will be willing to take our case ( see my previous post )
- got info on who is representing BAPIO, we could get in touch with them as well
- supertiger is chasing the lawyer who officially submitted the judicial review request ( it is crucial to get an answer on this !! ).

BR,

Paul

[olisun]

"As a minimum, the full judicial review process could cost approximately £20,000 in barrister fees alone if the case is lost because the individual concerned could be liable for the Home Office's fees. There would also be the additional cost of moving through the appeal process " <== Consider the initial fees and also incase the govt. won the case.

IMHO you will need atleast 1000 "HSMP" members chipping in £200 or more and the "individual" who has got a solid case, spare time and one who is currently working in his "chosen field" and ready to risk his job.

"Normally, a retrospective law is one which is applied to those who have already fulfilled the law, and the effect of it being retrospective is to require them to qualify all over again. This is not the Government in the UK works; but we do make laws that take effect a short time after they are passed. That is what has happened here. " <== I wonder how one is going to argue against this.....

[garichd]

BadPaul,

To Join VBSI.
Please sent a mail to
info@vbsi.org.uk

Gari.

I have had correspondence with BAPIO in the last days and they have shared with me the names of their advisors in the court case against HO, it is impressive !!!

Someone from VBSI please get in contact with me and I will pass on the info ( By the way, how can I formally join VBSI - although I feel I am part of it since May - ? And how can we make it a legal entity with a registered address and bank account? )

To summarize the progress so far on the court case :
- I had a reputable law firm confirming they will be willing to take our case ( see my previous post )
- got info on who is representing BAPIO, we could get in touch with them as well
- supertiger is chasing the lawyer who officially submitted the judicial review request ( it is crucial to get an answer on this !! ).

BR,

Paul

[TotalZone]

We would need 100 people if everyone is contributing 200 and not 1000.

If we can get together 200 HSMP + WP people.. then every one needs to contribute 100. Do you guys think it is possible ? I think so...
Obviously count me in.
Great work Paul !!!

[timefactor]

it would be nice to have a msn / googletalk group for all of us willing to pay.

papafaith is running a sticky thread for donations already. please pm him or roydon your msn ids

We would need 100 people if everyone is contributing 200 and not 1000.

If we can get together 200 HSMP + WP people.. then every one needs to contribute 100. Do you guys think it is possible ? I think so...
Obviously count me in.
Great work Paul !!!

[BadPaul]

Hi all,

Just wanted to clarify something ( in response to olisun's comments ): the response I have received from the law firm refers to " an individual ", as I have made enquiries about ME wanting to take HO to court.

I have got another reply from the solicitors yesterday after I have mentioned to them that someone already made a judicial review application voluntarily, please find it below :

" Paul

That is good news. VBSI could be detailed in the judicial review as an interested party.
Please keep me updated with the judicial review application as you have news. This will be of extreme interest to a lot of people. "

So now we all need to understand what is the situation on the judicial review application ( supertiger ? ) , and start collecting the money.

I don't know about the rest of you, but personally, I would rather loose ( in worst case scenario ) £100-200 or even more than not doing anything and then regretting it. It's everyone's choice now !

Paul

[sowhat]

Hi all,

Just wanted to clarify something ( in response to olisun's comments ): the response I have received from the law firm refers to " an individual ", as I have made enquiries about ME wanting to take HO to court.

I have got another reply from the solicitors yesterday after I have mentioned to them that someone already made a judicial review application voluntarily, please find it below :

" Paul

That is good news. VBSI could be detailed in the judicial review as an interested party.
Please keep me updated with the judicial review application as you have news. This will be of extreme interest to a lot of people. "

So now we all need to understand what is the situation on the judicial review application ( supertiger ? ) , and start collecting the money.

I don't know about the rest of you, but personally, I would rather loose ( in worst case scenario ) £100-200 or even more than not doing anything and then regretting it. It's everyone's choice now !

Paul

could you stop please using red bold font? it is sort of annoying... sorry about it...

[BadPaul]

sorry about that, I'll use default font colour and size from now on.

[timefactor]

more than annoyance, in open plan office it's bit tough to read hope you understand!

sorry about that, I'll use default font colour and size from now on.

[jayj]

Chaps,

I'm in favour of giving the money and it would be great to meet in person by organising a meeting so that all interested parties can meet face to face at least.

What do you guys think?

[BadPaul]

I do , sorry for using it in the first place.


Going back to our court case, I think It's time to get organized, I believe in " single point of contact / responsible " for each of the activities we want to undertake.

That SPOC will collect the feedback from members, organize MSN calls and regularly update the other member on the progress.

In my view, we should have different people taking responsibility for :

1. Chasing up the judicial review application

2. Financing - setting up the bank account, start collecting the money, updating on the amount collected to date, etc. By the way, I believe we should also look for sponsors here, organizations that might want to help us finance the court case.

3. Getting support from WP & HSMP immigrants - getting in touch with communities ( turkish, arab, russian, etc ), letting them know about the court case, sending emails asking people to join, etc

4. Solicitors / barristers - coming up with 3 proposals ( including prices ) for solicitors and barristers, organizing the meetings with them, updating the members on the progress

5. Evidence / hardship - start collecting initial evidence for the court case ( non consultation on the changes, retrospective, unfair, hardships, etc )

6. VBSI - registering the organization, membership, etc

What do you think?

[jason_rency]

hi guys,

thanks very much for all you effort here.
I am willing to donate 100-200 quids should any further legal action happen!

regards!

Jason

[hvac2006]

hi guys,

thanks very much for all you effort here.
I am willing to donate 100-200 quids should any further legal action happen!

regards!

Jason

Same from me

[zircon]

hi guys,

thanks very much for all you effort here.
I am willing to donate 100-200 quids should any further legal action happen!

regards!

Jason

Same from me.

[mona-de-bois]

Guys,
appologies if you know it already, but VBSI and CL are collecting petitions to Tony Blair calling for the new rules to be disapproved. Currently, about 5000 petitions are collected. At least 5000 more are needed for submission.
Please write a petition in a free form, ask as many people as possible to sign it and send the petition to:

North London Chinese Association, c/o Christine Lee & Co
Unit 3, CBC, 126 Colindale Avenue,
London NW9 5HD

Deadline for petition submission is Monday, July the 24th!

If you don't have much time, you can use the template below:
=========================================
Mr Tony Blair

10 Downing Street,
London,
SW1A 2AA

12 July 2006

RE: Change of qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain from four to five years for existing HSMP visa holders.

Dear Prime Minister,

We are writing to you to express our concern over a recent change to the immigration rules (HC974) put forward by the Rt Hon Charles Clarke MP on the 13th March 2006 to take effect on the 3rd of April 2006, which changes the length of time required to obtain Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) in the UK for those who are in the UK on employment-related (WP and HSMP) and ancestry visas from four to five years.

Although this proposed change was announced in February 2005 in the paper ‘Controlling Our Borders: the Five Year Strategy for Asylum and Immigration’, there were no consultations at all regarding the retrospective application of the new rules.

We understand that the immigration problem in Britain is an issue of extreme importance. However, it seems that in this particular instance the Home Office may be acting counter-productive to the stated objectives of the Government, as the arrangements are not directed against the illegal immigrants, but instead penalising the most law-abiding part of the migrant community: highly-skilled specialists, experienced managers and talented academics, who have chosen to make Britain their home and are bringing the undoubtful profit the British economy right now.

The retrospective direction of the law creates uncertainty that rules may change mid-way again at any time in the future, being harmful to the reputation and the stated objectives of the Government.

We are not asking for the rules to be changed back to four years, we are asking that the rules not be applied retrospectively so as not to affect current Highly Skilled Migrant Program and Work Permit visa holders.

We urge you to support our position in this matter and demonstrate that the Labour Government follows the principles of fairness and common good as always.

Yours Faithfully,

[BadPaul]

Do we have news on the judicial review application?

If yes, we need to start the legal action ASAP, it's already 3 months since the changes and we haven't made any progress.

I support the petition to Tony Blair, but we are not realistic if we think Tony is going to amend the rules for us.

Legal action is the only way to change it and also signal to the Government that we are not prepared to accept this kind of changes in the future.

VBSI, any thoughts?

[mona-de-bois]

I have talked to a guy from VBSI and he said:"We are already in contact with these people. We'll help them, but we believe that a) no so many chances to win the case; b) even if we win, it will happen no earlier than in 2-3 years". I tried to explain why it's so important to persue the case, no matter how long it takes, but so far haven't got an answer. You know, the online communication...

It seems the guys from VBSI got tired. It's understandable, and they also have some other life to run.

I have no information on the people who applied for the judicial review. Any ideas how we can find it out?

Also I think we need a someone who will organize us. Someone who will coordinate the work with VBSI, decide what's most important now and suggest a list of actions so that anyone, who is available now, could say "I'll do it!" and then report to this person the results etc. etc.

BadPaul, you seems like a right person for the job. Can you do it?

Do we have news on the judicial review application?

If yes, we need to start the legal action ASAP, it's already 3 months since the changes and we haven't made any progress.

[BadPaul]

It certainly not going to take 3 years )

I have posted earlier this week the next steps in my opinion and I have suggested we should have people responsible for specific actions.

If others will join me and we can agree responsibilities, including getting VBSI involved, I think it's worth a try

Other members please let me know if you want to help and we can start getting organized.

BR,

Paul

[ssi]

It seems the guys from VBSI got tired. I have no information on the people who applied for the judicial review. Any ideas how we can find it out?

People are deflated, yes. But also patient.

The TS Department should now be taking instructions from their client (i.e. the Home Office) if the latter intend to defend or review of the new rules. We expect to hear from them within two to six weeks. I will keep youinformed of new development in the above matter, in due course.

Early June + six weeks is about now. We should expect to hear from Stephen shortly.

This is Stephen Kong's firm:
Immigration Law Practitioners' Association (ILPA) Members' Directory
http://www.ilpa.org.uk/directory/webdirect.html
Harvey Son and Filby Solicitors
Central House
1 Ballards Lane
Finchley Central
London
N3 1LQ
Phone: 020 8349 8333
Fax: 020 8349 8777
Email: mail@harveykong.co.uk
Profession: Solicitors
Work Covered: all UK immig and nationality, and EU law
Languages Spoken: Chinese, Malay, Polish
Contacts: Richard, Kong, Stephen Kong, Alvyn Kee

Also I think we need a someone who will organize us.

Saving the drowning is that drowning's own business. "VBSI is us" - this is the message the VBSI is repeatedly sending. Mona, you can consider yourself an active member from now on. I pm'ed you my email.

Do we have news on the judicial review application?
If yes, we need to start the legal action ASAP, it's already 3 months since the changes and we haven't made any progress.

No news yet, but see above. CL _is_ going to have a meeting with Liam Byrne in a few days, and she is a professional legal worker working on our side. It is wise to consult with her. Yes, legal action is looming, but should not be rushed. I pm'ed you my email.

[mona-de-bois]

Early June + six weeks is about now. We should expect to hear from Stephen shortly... It could be his firm, but I am not sure.

SSI, thanks a lot for the update. I think we all here aprreciate it a lot. Right, guys?.... Guys!... There were lots of people a couple days ago. Where is everybody?

Anyway, I am worried that we have very little information. We live on rumors. It seems that someone already tries to sue the HO, it seems we may have more info in 6 weeks, we think it maybe this particular law firm or maybe not.

I think it's not healthy or productive to organize this kind of events without wide and clear communication. I'm not saying it's done intentionally, but it looks like the Byzantine style of politics. Maybe that's why people strarted to lose interest and the forum in empty.

How can we get more information, such as
- if anyone has really applied for the judicial review?
- who?
- when?
- using what arguments? (ideally to see a copy of the application)
- what is the regular procedure for that case?
- timeline?
- if we can be involved? how? when?
- contact details for whose who wants to be involved?

Shut me up guys if I'm wrong.
.

[ssi]

How can we get more information, such as
- if anyone has really applied for the judicial review?

You may have missed this post a few pages back in this thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... start=1290
I believe it's all information the VBSI has at the moment. S.K. was emailed to, but has not replied yet. Probably "in due course" has not happened yet.

[olisun]

also signal to the Government that we are not prepared to accept this kind of changes in the future.

So you are saying that it is the immigrants who will decide how to run a country and what is acceptable to them and not?.... lol...come on be realistic...

[mona-de-bois]

No, I havn't . But maybe I have not expressed my concern clearly. Will try one more time.
- if anyone has really brought a court action against HO regarding this case?
So far it's only mouth-to-mouth information. I'm not a lawyer, but I think there may be several ways/levels of doing it. For example, submitting a nowhere-leading request or a preliminary enquiry. I believe there can be also some alternative levels of judicial reviews, can't there? So far what is really going on is only the product of my (an maybe yours) imagination, based on isolated rumours.

I can't find any specific info about the court actions taken on VBSI website, could you post the URL here please? Many thanks.

How can we get more information, such as
- if anyone has really applied for the judicial review?

You may have missed this post a few pages back in this thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... start=1290
I believe it's all information the VBSI has at the moment. S.K. was emailed to, but has not replied yet. Probably "in due course" has not happened yet.