What evidence to gather for fiancee Visa?

[jp70]

I am going to meet my African girlfriend for the first time in Africa soon. The plan is to meet and then after that apply for a fiancee Visa for her to come to the UK. What kind evidence I need to produce as I am there (1 week)? Of course tickets/hotel bookings and taking pictures, but what else I need to consider/do to get legal evidence? Also interested, that is meeting once enough to apply for fiancee Visa (hopefully, because its a bit axpensive to travel)? thanks

[mulderpf]

First of all, your girlfriend should be over 21.

You should be able to prove that you have met, which if you have travelled there and taken some photos should be adequate.

You should be able to prove that you intend on getting married within 6 months - e.g. wedding plans/arrangements or at least some sort of proof of engagement.

You should be able to prove that your girlfriend will come over and not have to revert to public funds. This should either be that you can sustain both of you on your income, or you have sufficient savings for it to work. Remember, your girlfriend will not be allowed to work, so you need to satisfy the visa officer that you have planned on how you will pay for your fiance as she will be out of work. (This is usually when people ask, but how much, but as this is not PBS, there is no set thresholds - it would depend on your circumstances and lifestyle - you should just be able to show that within your circumstances and lifestyle, you can afford another person without recourse to public funds).

Your girlfriend should be able to prove English language ability.

You have to show that your girlfriend intends to come and live with you and that you have enough space available to accommodate her.

Note that this visa is not intended to be used for any other purposes other than getting married. If you do not get married during the time that the visa is valid, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to extend it (there are exceptions of course), as the entire purpose of the visa is NOT for you to get to know your girlfriend, you should be at a stage where you are sure you want to marry her.

[Greenie]

from your previous posts you said you were earning £500 per month and also that your bank account was constantly overdrawn. You are unlikely to be successful in a fiance/spouse visa in these circumstances as you need to have around £105 per week left over after you have paid rent, council tax and any loan repayments, unless your fiance has savings of her own.

[jp70]

First of all, your girlfriend should be over 21.

You should be able to prove that you have met, which if you have travelled there and taken some photos should be adequate.

ok, this is what I am focusing now.

You should be able to prove that you intend on getting married within 6 months - e.g. wedding plans/arrangements or at least some sort of proof of engagement.

A bit difficult this one. One your would make it easier, as there should be a bit more space for dating, but it might be ok...

You should be able to prove that your girlfriend will come over and not have to revert to public funds. This should either be that you can sustain both of you on your income, or you have sufficient savings for it to work. Remember, your girlfriend will not be allowed to work, so you need to satisfy the visa officer that you have planned on how you will pay for your fiance as she will be out of work. (This is usually when people ask, but how much, but as this is not PBS, there is no set thresholds - it would depend on your circumstances and lifestyle - you should just be able to show that within your circumstances and lifestyle, you can afford another person without recourse to public funds).

Question is obviously that how much is enough. I am able to live with very little money (excluding bills).

You have to show that your girlfriend intends to come and live with you and that you have enough space available to accommodate her.

This must mean "living with me *after* the marriage" as my morality will not allow her to live in the same house before the marriage. Not in a business of fornication... So before the marriage she will live in her own house.

Note that this visa is not intended to be used for any other purposes other than getting married. If you do not get married during the time that the visa is valid, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to extend it (there are exceptions of course), as the entire purpose of the visa is NOT for you to get to know your girlfriend, you should be at a stage where you are sure you want to marry her.

My only aim is to get married. But just that the 6months time is a bit too short. But lets see...

[jp70]

from your previous posts you said you were earning £500 per month and also that your bank account was constantly overdrawn. You are unlikely to be successful in a fiance/spouse visa in these circumstances as you need to have around £105 per week left over after you have paid rent, council tax and any loan repayments, unless your fiance has savings of her own.

I know full time workers who have normal jobs but their accounts are negative. So its not only about earning but also how to use the money.

Yes, obviously at the moment. But I have time to build up my income. I have actually 2 sources of income, and the other one is "kicking in" soon, so am thinking future will be ok. The question, which must be dealt with laywers, is that how long period of good accounts is required to prove that.

I told earlier, that am very succesfull trader. Am making like 90% yearly. So that should put things positive at some point. So its likely I should be ok after some time.

Did I not have these kind of future prospect, I would not even try this.

So I will wait until income increases.

"you need to have around £105 per week left over after you have paid rent, council tax and any loan repayments, unless your fiance has savings of her own."

So if she lives in a rented house, I need to pay her rent + £105 per week? 105 sounds quite a lot.. for example unemployed people get £60 per week and they are fine with it. Why so much?
Yes she has some savings (like £1300)

[Greenie]

First of all, your girlfriend should be over 21.

You should be able to prove that you have met, which if you have travelled there and taken some photos should be adequate.

ok, this is what I am focusing now.

You should be able to prove that you intend on getting married within 6 months - e.g. wedding plans/arrangements or at least some sort of proof of engagement.

A bit difficult this one. One your would make it easier, as there should be a bit more space for dating, but it might be ok...

You should be able to prove that your girlfriend will come over and not have to revert to public funds. This should either be that you can sustain both of you on your income, or you have sufficient savings for it to work. Remember, your girlfriend will not be allowed to work, so you need to satisfy the visa officer that you have planned on how you will pay for your fiance as she will be out of work. (This is usually when people ask, but how much, but as this is not PBS, there is no set thresholds - it would depend on your circumstances and lifestyle - you should just be able to show that within your circumstances and lifestyle, you can afford another person without recourse to public funds).

Question is obviously that how much is enough. I am able to live with very little money (excluding bills).

You have to show that your girlfriend intends to come and live with you and that you have enough space available to accommodate her.

This must mean "living with me *after* the marriage" as my morality will not allow her to live in the same house before the marriage. Not in a business of fornication... So before the marriage she will live in her own house.

Note that this visa is not intended to be used for any other purposes other than getting married. If you do not get married during the time that the visa is valid, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to extend it (there are exceptions of course), as the entire purpose of the visa is NOT for you to get to know your girlfriend, you should be at a stage where you are sure you want to marry her.

My only aim is to get married. But just that the 6months time is a bit too short. But lets see...

I thought she was going to be staying with you when she was coming over as a visitor?

If you are living separately then I would say that you need to have more than the £105.75 per week. I would say you need to have the amount needed for two single people - e.g. £53.45 each if you are under 25 and £67.50 each if over 25


If she needs her own accomodation for 6 months then you'll also need to show how you are going to pay for that - so you'll need around £105 per week after you have paid your rent/council tax/loan repayments, as well as her rent/council tax. I can't see how you are going to do this if you only earning £500 per month.

You may think that you can live on £1 per day for food (according to your previous post) but they won't accept this. you need to have the minimum amount a person can be expected to live on - i.e. income support levels.

[mulderpf]

JP, your post is very confusing and I'm not sure that even you know what you want. The whole point of getting a fiance visa, is for your girlfriend to come here and marry you. Now if you're saying that six months isn't enough then obviously you are not sure that you want to marry yet, then this visa is not the right one - only apply for it once you are sure you want to marry. It is not a "trial" visa to get you to decide whether or not you want to marry.

As your morality does not allow her to live with you before marriage, where is she going to stay and who is going to pay for it? How are you going to prove that she can pay for it as she will not allowed to work? From the sounds of it, you are barely making ends meet for yourself - how are you going to sustain another person who you want having live in her own place, with separate bills etc?

The whole point of these criteria is not to make things as difficult as possible. It's to ensure that you know what the reality is and that you have thought things through - you obviously haven't, as you already don't seem to make ends meet, but want to set up a separate household for your girlfriend - who is going to pay for it??

[Greenie]

from your previous posts you said you were earning £500 per month and also that your bank account was constantly overdrawn. You are unlikely to be successful in a fiance/spouse visa in these circumstances as you need to have around £105 per week left over after you have paid rent, council tax and any loan repayments, unless your fiance has savings of her own.

I know full time workers who have normal jobs but their accounts are negative. So its not only about earning but also how to use the money.

Yes, obviously at the moment. But I have time to build up my income. I have actually 2 sources of income, and the other one is "kicking in" soon, so am thinking future will be ok. The question, which must be dealt with laywers, is that how long period of good accounts is required to prove that.

I told earlier, that am very succesfull trader. Am making like 90% yearly. So that should put things positive at some point. So its likely I should be ok after some time.

Did I not have these kind of future prospect, I would not even try this.

So I will wait until income increases.

Lots of people live on a constant negative account balance however they are not all sponsoring someone to come to the UK on a fiance visa. They will need to be satisfied that you have enough money to live on when she comes to join you. If you are constantly overdrawn and have a low income that suggests that you currently spend more than you earn and they won't grant a fiance visa in these circumstances.

If you intend to wait until you are earning more perhaps come back and post here again when you are actually ready. I can see another protracted debate in this thread otherwise.

[jp70]

JP, your post is very confusing and I'm not sure that even you know what you want. The whole point of getting a fiance visa, is for your girlfriend to come here and marry you. Now if you're saying that six months isn't enough then obviously you are not sure that you want to marry yet, then this visa is not the right one - only apply for it once you are sure you want to marry. It is not a "trial" visa to get you to decide whether or not you want to marry.

Ideally I need to first know her face to face like 4-6 months. But because of the difficulties to get visas etc in this case (as shes does not live in the UK), might need to make special arrangement. So I have to take "risk" to make that desicion that we are ok and gonna marry.

But remember, that 2 dating people are allowed to make a desicion at any point before marriage that they actually dont want to marry. Its *only* when you get married that there is no looking back... this is even according to history of marriage customs.

As your morality does not allow her to live with you before marriage, where is she going to stay and who is going to pay for it? How are you going to prove that she can pay for it as she will not allowed to work? From the sounds of it, you are barely making ends meet for yourself - how are you going to sustain another person who you want having live in her own place, with separate bills etc?

Obviously we have to wait until our total money is enough. But she has some savings herself as well... And maybe taking a loan could be also acceptable in urgency? Have to as laywers.

The whole point of these criteria is not to make things as difficult as possible. It's to ensure that you know what the reality is and that you have thought things through - you obviously haven't, as you already don't seem to make ends meet, but want to set up a separate household for your girlfriend - who is going to pay for it??

I have reasonable expentancy getting much bigger income in near future...

[jp70]

If you intend to wait until you are earning more perhaps come back and post here again when you are actually ready. I can see another protracted debate in this thread otherwise.

But I better start to prepare and meet her long before we try the fiancee visa, isnt it? ye, its a bit risky, but counting the whole situtation I see its worth of it. I dont need to have that money before I just meet her first times. Lets say we have the money in next christmas. So it was good to meet this summer long before that, so that when we have the money everything is ready.

[mulderpf]

Ideally I need to first know her face to face like 4-6 months. But because of the difficulties to get visas etc in this case (as shes does not live in the UK), might need to make special arrangement. So I have to take "risk" to make that desicion that we are ok and gonna marry.

In that case, you are better off in visiting her in her own country. Unfortunately, regardless of your intentions, there are many people who abuse this route and without the rules in place, you would see a lot more people coming to Britain to "marry", but only want an easy way in.

But remember, that 2 dating people are allowed to make a desicion at any point before marriage that they actually dont want to marry. Its *only* when you get married that there is no looking back... this is even according to history of marriage customs.

And that is fine - on a fiance visa, if you decide not to marry, then your girlfriend would have to return as she would not be a fiance anymore (the whole point of the visa). Hence I am saying you should be pretty sure.

Obviously we have to wait until our total money is enough. But she has some savings herself as well... And maybe taking a loan could be also acceptable in urgency? Have to as laywers.

No, loans are not acceptable proof as the UKBA does not know (and aren't interested) your or her credit history. Also, your girlfriend will probably not be allowed to get a loan for at least 6 months. You cannot lend money if you have no means of paying it back (she isn't allowed to work).

I have reasonable expentancy getting much bigger income in near future...

It would be best to wait for this to actually materialise before applying then, the UKBA would not be interested in something you don't have concrete evidence as they would not be able to verify claims of "reasonable expectancy".

I think you are probably looking at the wrong visa type. Given what you have posted here (I haven't really read any of your previous posts, but will do so), there is probably little chance in your girlfriend getting a visitor's visa either. (A fiance visa and a visitor's visa are two very opposing things).

Just a question out of interest - if you are not convinced about your relationship yourself, why are you pursuing this? You have not met, you don't seem to be sure of her intentions, you don't know you own intentions, how can you be sure that you are not just being used for an easy ride into Britain? (This is a sincere question! I am also from Africa, and I know what lengths people will go to, to get into Europe - so it is not meant to offend - just something else you should think about as it is clear that you have not thought much of this through).

[mulderpf]

If you intend to wait until you are earning more perhaps come back and post here again when you are actually ready. I can see another protracted debate in this thread otherwise.

But I better start to prepare and meet her long before we try the fiancee visa, isnt it? ye, its a bit risky, but counting the whole situtation I see its worth of it. I dont need to have that money before I just meet her first times. Lets say we have the money in next christmas. So it was good to meet this summer long before that, so that when we have the money everything is ready.

Yeah, in this case its all about the money. You can't prove love to the UKBA, but you can prove money

[Casa]

A hard fact you need to bear in mind is that rightly or wrongly, applications made for a fiance visas in African countries come under a great deal of scrutiny by the ECO. Unless you submit a very strong application showing proof of a genuine relationship, evidence of the forthcoming wedding, adequate accomodation and proof that you meet at least the minimum requirement regarding finance, the application is unlikely to succeed.
The ECO won't accept a loan by the way as a means of strengthening your finances.

[jp70]

In that case, you are better off in visiting her in her own country.

the problem is that I cannot and dont want to be there long time - months.

Unfortunately, regardless of your intentions, there are many people who abuse this route and without the rules in place, you would see a lot more people coming to Britain to "marry", but only want an easy way in.

One way would be to try to understand their intentions. Because even if you have everything correct (like money, house etc) your intentions can still be wrong...

So having papers ok does not mean that you are not misusing the system. It does not really quarantee that.

How about meeting the pair, and speaking with them etc. Thats how many times intentions can possibly be seen.

And that is fine - on a fiance visa, if you decide not to marry, then your girlfriend would have to return as she would not be a fiance anymore (the whole point of the visa). Hence I am saying you should be pretty sure.

I am very sure. I have known her 1year.

No, loans are not acceptable proof

Not even if you already *got* that loan??

It would be best to wait for this to actually materialise before applying then, the UKBA would not be interested in something you don't have concrete evidence as they would not be able to verify claims of "reasonable expectancy".

Not applying for fiancee yet, this is only meeting first time. I am applying visitior visa to visit her in Africa.

Just a question out of interest - if you are not convinced about your relationship yourself, why are you pursuing this? You have not met, you don't seem to be sure of her intentions, you don't know you own intentions, how can you be sure that you are not just being used for an easy ride into Britain? (This is a sincere question! I am also from Africa, and I know what lengths people will go to, to get into Europe - so it is not meant to offend - just something else you should think about as it is clear that you have not thought much of this through).

I have seen her many times in web cam. She is a christian - so if that is true, she would propably not lie, because christian by definition is not allowed to do that and does not want to do that. If she did, she would not be a christian.
So, the only question I am interested, that is she genuine christian. I *know* that genuine christian would not lie (99.9% sure) in this kind of situtuation. If she is a real chritian, she will not marry me and then divorce after that.

If this was a case of meeting non-christian, then yes, I have absolutely no base believing she is not abusing the system.

Also according to her chatting, she seems to NOT like to live in the UK. She is asking me to move there.

I was actually hesiteting first 2-3 months whether she is genuine, but was slowly convinced. But it still takes more time to know that, because not yet met. I have to see her in her church in Africa etc. That would convince me.

[jp70]

If you intend to wait until you are earning more perhaps come back and post here again when you are actually ready. I can see another protracted debate in this thread otherwise.

But I better start to prepare and meet her long before we try the fiancee visa, isnt it? ye, its a bit risky, but counting the whole situtation I see its worth of it. I dont need to have that money before I just meet her first times. Lets say we have the money in next christmas. So it was good to meet this summer long before that, so that when we have the money everything is ready.

Yeah, in this case its all about the money. You can't prove love to the UKBA, but you can prove money

Not always money neither. How can you prove that the money on your account put there is yours and not somebody elses?

[mulderpf]

If she wants you to go live with her, then I don't see the point of all of this. There is no need for the UKBA to be involved at all.

[jp70]

If she wants you to go live with her, then I don't see the point of all of this. There is no need for the UKBA to be involved at all.

Well, I dont want to go there...

And this is what I hate, people initially thinking that every African or other countries (you name it) are scammer, lazy, after money etc. Why? Isnt it even in the courts/police that until proven guilty you are not guilty? Why not think positive that people can be honest and hard working people?

[Casa]

It's up to you to prove where the money in your account has come from.
The ECO will insist on seeing the evidence. This is partly to prevent money being deposited in the account before the application and then withdrawn immediately after the visa is granted.

Which of your threads do you want closed? I'm about to close one, so it's your choice.

[Greenie]

Casa can't you just close both and put us all out of our misery?!

[Casa]

Well Greenie...I reckon I've got 5 choices:
Close both
Close one or the other
Let both continue...thus confusing everyone
Ignore all threads and get on with my 'day job"
Bring Wanderer back to conclude it.

[jp70]

Well Greenie...I reckon I've got 5 choices:
Close both
Close one or the other
Let both continue...thus confusing everyone
Ignore all threads and get on with my 'day job"
Bring Wanderer back to conclude it.

Why do you want to close? They are different subjects... same person cannot open several threads?

[Casa]

Why not think positive that people can be honest and hard working people?

Of course people can be honest and hard working but they can also be desperate to escape from the life they have in their own country. You only have to see the numbers who tragically die every year trying to cross into Europe in unseaworthy and overloaded boats. Sometimes (although I'm not implying in your case of course) marriage seems the easier option.

They're not different subjects..and no, members can't open multiple threads which in essence relate to the one query...i.e how to get your girlfriend into the country legally.

[jp70]

Why not think positive that people can be honest and hard working people?

Of course people can be honest and hard working but they can also be desperate to escape from the life they have in their own country. You only have to see the numbers who tragically die every year trying to cross into Europe in unseaworthy and overloaded boats. Sometimes (although I'm not implying in your case of course) marriage seems the easier option.

The city where she lives is one of the safest is Africa. She has good savings and full time job. She has relatives + child there. A house to stay etc. So I guess this does not apply to her...

Lets remember that in main cities in Africa things are pretty well, at least for them. Even if not, they dont complain because they are used to it.

But as I said, I would not trust a non-cristian in any case to be genuine wife (not saying there is none, but risk is too big). The fact, if I remember, is that about 40% of these end up in divorve. Thats a pretty high risk...Its all about motives...

"Sometimes (although I'm not implying in your case of course) marriage seems the easier option.
"

Or course. Thats why I have been very carefully checking. But I also noticed that many Africans do not want to move to the UK. So its not that everyone wants to run the UK. MOney is not everything in any case... These people can be more happy than we are here with more money!

So, I would say that somebody living normally in Africans big city is no more different than somebody in Germany regarding to willingness to move to the UK.

[mulderpf]

Honestly, I think this guy is probably just trolling now. He is picking out pieces from my responses and carrying on with them to continue to elicit responses - ignoring all other points.

JP, I am from Africa - I know what it's like. Even now, I will marry someone tomorrow simply to get the British passport. I do not think that all Africans are scammers, lazy or just after money. But if the opportunity had to arise, I would a) definitely marry just for a British passport; b) move to another country (e.g. Britain) to be better off than I was in my home country. I'm not saying everyone is like that, but it definitely motivates people.

You choose to ignore everything else and just focus on the stuff that will generate emotions - I don't think you are serious enough about this.

[jp70]

[quote="mulderpf"] b) move to another country (e.g. Britain) to be better off than I was in my home country. I'm not saying everyone is like that, but it definitely motivates people.

/quote]

I would not personally move to another country if there is bigger money. There are other values in life, like nature, friends, own country etc.

I did not move to the UK because of money. I get a lot less money now than in my home country! Also other things in my home country are better for me.

Ye, might be more people coming here from Africa because of money, but that does not change the facts that every people is an individual and should not be blamed about something he/she has not committed. not guilty until found guilty...

LIke my friend:Because she is from Africa, I will check more carefully but I dont think she has wrong motives until I find evidence about that.