What evidence to gather for fiancee Visa?

[Casa]

Ah! A child. You haven't mentioned this before. What will happen to the child if your girlfriend marries you and settles in the UK? I'm assuming she's divorced from the child's father. Does he have parental access at present?
Was the child mentioned in the visitor visa application?
By the way, if this thread is going to continue (and I suspect it is), then it would be wise not to offend those who are married with muslim, hindu, jewish etc wives.

[jp70]

Ah! A child. You haven't mentioned this before. What will happen to the child if your girlfriend marries you and settles in the UK? I'm assuming she's divorced from the child's father. Does he have parental access at present?
Was the child mentioned in the visitor visa application?

No, she is not parenting. Child is with the father. Ye, she mentioned that has child as a tie.

[Casa]

Is she divorced from the child's father?

[jp70]

Ah! A child. You haven't mentioned this before. What will happen to the child if your girlfriend marries you and settles in the UK? I'm assuming she's divorced from the child's father. Does he have parental access at present?
Was the child mentioned in the visitor visa application?
By the way, if this thread is going to continue (and I suspect it is), then it would be wise not to offend those who are married with muslim, hindu, jewish etc wives.

"then it would be wise not to offend those who are married with muslim, hindu, jewish etc wives."

I cannot state facts? Is stating facts offending? As I said, the fact is that among non-christians 40% end up in divorce. If this offends somebody, well...

I am saying, that I will not want to take 40% risk here. And I will get it by marrying a non-christian. Why is this statement offending?

And also, if you get into more details, then yes... there are other religions where divorce rate is small I think (like Islam, jews?). But with most of the groups the rate is the same as non-believers. (I have nothing against non-believers, but its just how it is...)

But I was logically speaking still correct by stating the 40% figure.

[jp70]

Is she divorced from the child's father?

Yes. But this is long time ago. Might be one of those one night things...

[Casa]

jp70. This is an immigration forum and not the place to discuss comparisons between religions.
If you want to continue it would be wise to take my advice.

'Might be one of those night things'. A strange way to describe a child from a relationship! However..did she enter into a legal marriage and if so does she have the proof of divorce?

[jp70]

jp70. This is an immigration forum and not the place to discuss comparisons between religions.
If you want to continue it would be wise to take my advice.

'It might be one of those night things'. A strange way to describe a child from a relationship! However..did she enter into a legal marriage and if so does she have the proof of divorce?

Actually now I remember that she was never married. So no. Never legally married.

[pennylessinindia]

Well Greenie...I reckon I've got 5 choices:
Close both
Close one or the other
Let both continue...thus confusing everyone
Ignore all threads and get on with my 'day job"
Bring Wanderer back to conclude it.

Close both and save us all from ongoing pain

[Greenie]

jp70. This is an immigration forum and not the place to discuss comparisons between religions.
If you want to continue it would be wise to take my advice.

'It might be one of those night things'. A strange way to describe a child from a relationship! However..did she enter into a legal marriage and if so does she have the proof of divorce?

Actually now I remember that she was never married. So no. Never legally married.

i think he is making it up as he goes along. Or maybe lying. Oh no wait, he's Christian and no Christian has ever told a lie ever.

[Laura721]

Yes, very painful agreed!

[Casa]

jp70 I think you need to stand back and consider how this application for a fiance visa may appear to the ECO.
When your fiancee arrives in the UK on her 6 month fiancee visa she will have stated in the application that due to strict religious beliefs she will be unable to live under the same roof as you until after you are married. Bear in mind that she has already stated in a visitor visa that she has a child who is a 'family tie' (born outside of marriage but lives with the father.)
I'm also slightly concerned about how well you know her. You've only just 'remembered' that she hasn't been previously married! Presumably she'll be able to submit proof of her single status with the visa application?

[jp70]

jp70 I think you need to stand back and consider how this application for a fiance visa may appear to the ECO.
When your fiancee arrives in the UK on her 6 month fiancee visa she will have stated in the application that due to strict religious beliefs she will be unable to live under the same roof as you until after you are married.

But why would I need to state the obvious one (that she will live in her own house)? Isnt it normal that fiancee lives in a different house than the man until they get married? I think thats the normal case. The couple starts to live together after married, isnt it? Some do differently, but thats "against" the normal marriege.

[Casa]

Where did you say she was going to stay when you applied for the 6 month visitor visa? Living at the same address while on a fiance visa by the way isn't considered 'against a normal marriage'. Whatever that means!

If your fiancee is interviewed when she applies for her visa, one would hope that she knows more about you than you appear to know about her at present. The fact that you are finding it difficult to recall whether she was married to the father of her child or not would set off warning signals!

[Greenie]

jp70 I think you need to stand back and consider how this application for a fiance visa may appear to the ECO.
When your fiancee arrives in the UK on her 6 month fiancee visa she will have stated in the application that due to strict religious beliefs she will be unable to live under the same roof as you until after you are married.

But why would I need to state the obvious one (that she will live in her own house)? Isnt it normal that fiancee lives in a different house than the man until they get married? I think thats the normal case. The couple starts to live together after married, isnt it? Some do differently, but thats "against" the normal marriege.

Your relationship is hardly conventional is it? You met over the internet and yet you now say you want to sponsor her as your fiance even though in your other post she was just your friend who you 'might' date.

Your either ignorant or just out to offend people. Either way give it up.

[mulderpf]

jp70 I think you need to stand back and consider how this application for a fiance visa may appear to the ECO.
When your fiancee arrives in the UK on her 6 month fiancee visa she will have stated in the application that due to strict religious beliefs she will be unable to live under the same roof as you until after you are married.

But why would I need to state the obvious one (that she will live in her own house)? Isnt it normal that fiancee lives in a different house than the man until they get married? I think thats the normal case. The couple starts to live together after married, isnt it? Some do differently, but thats "against" the normal marriege.

One of the requirements of the visa is that there is adequate accommodation for her and any dependents who she brings over. As you have made it clear that she cannot live with you, you will need to show the UKBA where she will be staying and since it's not a place where you are paying rent at the moment, you will need to show means that you can do this.

It's not about whether she is living with you or not, it's about whether she has accommodation where she can stay.

[jp70]

jp70 I think you need to stand back and consider how this application for a fiance visa may appear to the ECO.
When your fiancee arrives in the UK on her 6 month fiancee visa she will have stated in the application that due to strict religious beliefs she will be unable to live under the same roof as you until after you are married.

But why would I need to state the obvious one (that she will live in her own house)? Isnt it normal that fiancee lives in a different house than the man until they get married? I think thats the normal case. The couple starts to live together after married, isnt it? Some do differently, but thats "against" the normal marriege.

One of the requirements of the visa is that there is adequate accommodation for her and any dependents who she brings over. As you have made it clear that she cannot live with you, you will need to show the UKBA where she will be staying and since it's not a place where you are paying rent at the moment, you will need to show means that you can do this.

It's not about whether she is living with you or not, it's about whether she has accommodation where she can stay.

On the other hand I could maybe use my house as a place where she can in theory live - and we could put this on application. Bce according to law she can. Then in reality we can still rent a house for her and live with little money (less than UBA requires). This way I dont need to prove to have so much money. Kind of trick, but legal I think.

If I say that "she can live in my house" it does not mean that "she MUST live in my house". She can change her mind and live in another house if she wants, and everything should be legal.

[mulderpf]

That's not a trick, that's lying.

Sorry, I responded while you edited your response to remove the word trick. You'd still be lying and trying to deceive the home office.

[jp70]

That's not a trick, that's lying.

Sorry, I responded while you edited your response to remove the word trick. You'd still be lying and trying to deceive the home office.

No its not lying if I say that "I have enough room for her to stay there". I do not need to say that she will actually stay there. I dont think even legally speaking, because thats a moral issue and the law does not handle moral issues.

Obviously, if in reality I am not able to rent a house for her, I am legally responsible to give her place to stay, and even she can require that. Thats the catch here.

No, there is no way they can prove I have "lied". How could they? I can *always* change my moral laws if I want to, and nobody has anything to say about it. its not illegal to change from moral to immoral or vice verse. So if we go to court, am sure I would win (with professional help).

Note again, I would NOT say that *will definitely live there*. And if I do not say that, legally speaking she does not need to live there, full stop.

The only way they can require she to really live there, is that if I write on paper "She will live everyday in my house". But if I dont put that, I am legally speaking free to do what I want.

What I am saying is, that they cannot legally speaking force her to live with me in reality. Absolutelyl not! So.... she can live in rented house after that.

And if they go to court saying that I said that chrisians dont do that, i can always say that i changed my religion and now I can do it . or vice versa. I can change my religion? i guess i can...

Also, I do not think its legally speaking wrong if I say "she can live with me and I have a place for her to stay". Then she "changes her mind" and desides to move to another house. What is wrong in that? I did not lie,because SHE desided to live elsewhere suddenly. What law says this is wrong?

[mulderpf]

Have you even bothered to look at the form? The question is not, "do you know anyone with enough space in the UK to stay with", in which case it would not be lying. She could then use my address too.

The question is who will you be staying with, where and for how long and do you intend to stay there permanently.

If it is not the intention, then yes, you are lying and you are deceiving the home office.

Either way, I thought you were not pursuing this any further?

[jp70]

The question is who will you be staying with, where and for how long and do you intend to stay there permanently.

Can you tell me at what section this is required. I guess you refer to this document:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/ ... 3073/VAF1F

So according to that it is illegal for wifes to live with their parents for a 6 months period in the UK (temporary separate from their husbands)? or .. ? Because you have to live after that with your husband "permanently"? define the word "permanently".

Where in the law it says so?

[mulderpf]

Okay, you are really getting annoying now. It's not the law, it's a legal declaration you will be making. When you apply for a visa, you will in a form in which you declare the information is correct. It's not a story you write to them in which you can twist things the way you want and make it sound the way you want it. If they ask you on a form: Where and with who will you be staying, you have to answer the question; if they ask you if you will be staying with your sponsor permanently, it's a Yes or No answer. It doesn't mean that you have to stay with the sponsor, it is just a question so that they know what financial means they have to look at. The law doesn't state where your fiance has to stay, but when they ask you, the law needs you to answer truthfully, especially since the form will include a declaration about truthful answers.

Something which is defined in law is deception and what you are trying to do here is clearly deceive the home office.

[jp70]

The question is who will you be staying with, where and for how long and do you intend to stay there permanently.

Where is this, i cannot find it. I can only find this:
"8.10 Where will you stay in the UK?"

it does not ask how long or permanently. Where did you find those? The word "permanently" is not in that document.

But ok, let me think about this "8.10 Where will you stay in the UK?" what it means...

But we can do so that she will remaing in my address and *I* will rent another place where I live!! That would definitely not be against that. Its only asking the PLACE where you stay, not with WHOM she must stay. So I am free to rent another house. If goes to court, sure I would win.... Does not say anything about me there where I must live.

[mulderpf]

You are looking at the wrong form. VAF4A is required for a fiance visa.

[jp70]

You are looking at the wrong form. VAF4A is required for a fiance visa.

Ye , it says "Do you intend to live with your sponsor permanently? "

But it now depends on what "permanently" means? Are you sure it means that she can never live short periods on other addresses, like with her parents? CAn you show me the law place where it says like this?

Obviously UBA cannot be above the law and force her to stay only in my house the rest of her life. What if she sleeps with her parents like 10 days. Thats ok? Or against the law?

Also, intenting to live permanently does NOT mean that must live NOW together. Its about the **future**. Which is logical.. if not married, does not need to live together yet

[Greenie]

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