significant achievement in my chosen field?

[ph7klw]

It seems that it is difficult to claim points for significant achievement.
Does it make it through if I have

6 international publications?
ORS scholarship?
2 academic reference from 2 professors?

[pantaiema]

WHere is your 6 international publications is pubshed. IS that in Conference proceedings or in International Journal ?. Normally they only count if it is published on high ranking international Journals.

ORS scholarship does not seem to convincing. They need something which is based on international competition such as Full Bright, etc.
But I think you could try but do not rely on it. I mean you sould back up it from other category. Please keep the forum informed of the outcomes we also want to learn from this case.

Pantaiema

It seems that it is difficult to claim points for significant achievement.
Does it make it through if I have

6 international publications?
ORS scholarship?
2 academic reference from 2 professors?

[sdd7677]

HEY BEWARE

the reference letter you get from your profeesor or someone who is working in your research field(industrialist/ researcher) should signify in reference letter that how important your work is towards research/development/towards humanities/major contribution in your area of research. it should reflect in the reference ltter otherwise it will be pointless as i had same problem with my first application though had 10 international publication. but while applied second time taken good care and now m in UK and thought to write you so somone get benifit from my first refusal !!

[pantaiema]

For significant achievement they need that the achievement must be assessed by international communty/organisation or similar standing order and not by personal such as your supervisor/professor. And normally there must be any tough international competition element in it.

You could submit your prof reference just to show that your papers is within the area/field you claim, that is fine. But I do not think it will reasonably count to award the point. The point itself will come from where you published your papers. I believe that HSMP caseworkers have the list of leading international journals in each fields. For instance, if you are in Electrical engineering, IEEE, IEE is a good example.

If you published your papers in the high ranking journals it has been reviewed by the board member of that journals. There is int competition among people who want to submits their papers.

If you get patent, it has been assssed by international commnunity and there is competiton element in it.

If you get scholarship which is widely known to have international standard due to very tough competition such as Fullbright shcolarship, or British Chevening I suspect (But be carefull becoause if they award you this scholarship they are expecting you to return home and not to stay in the UK). So although this scholarship might be qualify there is another thing you need to think).

Also you need to be special among other HSMP candidates in order to be awarded point in this category. Remember, not many of HSMP applicants have been succesfully awarded point in this category. That is the way you test it if you want very high probability (if not 100%) to get point in this category.

Pantaiema

HEY BEWARE

the reference letter you get from your profeesor or someone who is working in your research field(industrialist/ researcher) should signify in reference letter that how important your work is towards research/development/towards humanities/major contribution in your area of research. it should reflect in the reference ltter otherwise it will be pointless as i had same problem with my first application though had 10 international publication. but while applied second time taken good care and now m in UK and thought to write you so somone get benifit from my first refusal !!

[pantaiema]

Dear sdd7677

Please shed us the light.

Is your papers is in the International journals or in int. comference proceedings ?.

Is your papers in the international high ranking journal ? Because some journals could be international but it is not necessersaly 'leading, high ranking' journals.

Please do not get me wrong I just want to understand this case more detail. I could use this inforamtion to provide people in this forum better advise if they are asking.

Pantaiema

HEY BEWARE

the reference letter you get from your profeesor or someone who is working in your research field(industrialist/ researcher) should signify in reference letter that how important your work is towards research/development/towards humanities/major contribution in your area of research. it should reflect in the reference ltter otherwise it will be pointless as i had same problem with my first application though had 10 international publication. but while applied second time taken good care and now m in UK and thought to write you so somone get benifit from my first refusal !!

[acothread]

Speaking from my experience, I would say that the number of publications alone does not count. Read the caseworkers manual for significant achievement and it details the evidence you need to submit. Peer references are a must but it should detail how significant the achievement is in your chosen field.
Acothread

[pantaiema]

Agree with you acothread.
Remember that other then publications (in high ranking journals in your field) you need another evidence such as Scholarships, Patents, etc.

I think other ways to proof that it is significant in your field is that how the research is beeing funded. If you get reasearch grant to fund your research say £100,000 from international donors. I believe this will assist the case. This is just my thinking never see how it works.

Pantaiema

Speaking from my experience, I would say that the number of publications alone does not count. Read the caseworkers manual for significant achievement and it details the evidence you need to submit. Peer references are a must but it should detail how significant the achievement is in your chosen field.
Acothread

[Jeff Albright]

3 pieces of evidence are sufficient:

- At least 3 publications
- Academic reference
- Industry (or peer) reference

I have submitted 3 publications in international journals on my Ph.D. research work, academic reference from my second supervisor during my Ph.D. studies and the reference from my industrial sponsor, a large multinational industrial company, which was either taken as an industry reference or a peer reference.

This was sufficient to qualify for 15 points. Quick and easy.

My 3 year Ph.D. research sponsored by the UK industry was taken as a qualifying work experience and my professor had written a reference for me, which was sufficient to acquire 25 points.

My UK Ph.D. qualification was worth 30 points.

[sdd7677]

Yes the above post is right,

I had seven international publications(most of them were in reputed journals), though I dont think caseworker check journal impact factor coz its still difficult to understand for scientist like us as well and it keep on changing every year.

Letter from your professor of other researcher who have been active in same research since few years will be benificial and letter from industry(any industrail research...if he/she state that how importatant your work in development of the field will suffice the need)

I got ponts on these basis. nothing else....

sorry for speel mistakes in my post

[pantaiema]

sdd7677

Thank you to provide us the light about your case

Yes the above post is right,

I had seven international publications(most of them were in reputed journals),

So it is clear that they do not normally accept Publications in Int conference proceedings. I think many people especially who did PhD degree understand why Publications in Int conference proceedings is not normally acceptable.

Yes the above post is right,
though I dont think caseworker check journal impact factor coz its still difficult to understand for scientist like us as well and it keep on changing every year.

I agree with that. Also because it is difficult to know if you are not in that fileds. But I believe they have the list of Journals they get from their adviser which journal is normally acceptable.

Yes the above post is right,
Letter from your professor of other researcher who have been active in same research since few years will be benificial and letter from industry(any industrail research...if he/she state that how importatant your work in development of the field will suffice the need)

I think this is what they call reference from industry.

Pantaiema

[Jeff Albright]

So it is clear that they do not normally accept Publications in Int conference proceedings. I think many people especially who did PhD degree understand why Publications in Int conference proceedings is not normally acceptable.

You did not seem to even acknowledge the post before sdd7677...
It is not clear if that is the case. Being an ex-PhD student I perfectly understand why such publications are acceptable. The summary of one type of research during my PhD was presented at NACE 2005 in Houston and I simply forwarded the printed by NACE conference paper to HSMP Team and they accepted it.

[KNRao]

Hi jeff
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. I am glad that HSMP case worker accepted your conference paper as a significant achievement (along with your other two papers). I am not sure the paper you forwarded to them is a conference proceeding paper or it was published any other international journal. As you know, some of prestigious international conference proceedings publish as special issue in some selected international journal. If your article is just like that, then it could be accepted as good piece of work. If not, i guess you are lucky to accepted by the HSMP team. Ofcourse this is speculation. But i am sure that all the conference papers can not be taken as a part of significant achivement. I presented one piece of my PhD work in three conferences with different modifications and even i dont count as three papers.
Thanks
Rao

[pantaiema]

Dear Jeff
Thank you for your comments. My understanding is that you publsihed your work in the international journal and not in the int conference proceedings because from your previuos post you wrote:

"I have submitted 3 publications in international journals on my Ph.D. research work"

In my opinion, if someone is doing PhD degree and publishing their work in 3 international conference his acheivement does not seem to qualify as significant achievement. Why ?
- Publishing PhD work is a necessity as part of the study and not special.
- Appilicant have got more point compared to other degrees on the PHD degree.
- Most of PhD students know that publishing work in int conference proceedings is dead easy. As long as you are willing to pay for the conference fee you are there (they need your money to fund their conference). Your work will be publsihed in the int conference proceedings.
-Anyone did PhD degree will defenitely have at least 3 publications in int conference proceedings. So Any PhD graduate from all over the world with a little work experience will qualify for HSMP ???

But to understand this case thoroughly we still need to hear from people who have been awarded signifacant achievement. I still believe that luck factor is still there.

Pantaiema

You did not seem to even acknowledge the post before sdd7677...
It is not clear if that is the case. Being an ex-PhD student I perfectly understand why such publications are acceptable. The summary of one type of research during my PhD was presented at NACE 2005 in Houston and I simply forwarded the printed by NACE conference paper to HSMP Team and they accepted it.

[sdd7677]

simpy,

research publications ALONE are not significant achivement,
NOR only reseach publication in international journals can be counted as significant achivement,

but research publications in international journals and someone(again very senior researcher, industrial resarcher or someone in same categoty) if he give in writing about appreciation of the work and if he address how the research work is important(significatn) to research field then case worker will correlate your research work with peers letters and award you points, thats it !!

beacause I dont think home office can hire specialist from each field to study researchers publication to judge its signifcancy !!!!

I strongly believe about this and I was awarded points when I calimed by keeping these things in mind.

I hope it will help you.

[Jeff Albright]

Dear Jeff
Thank you for your comments. My understanding is that you publsihed your work in the international journal and not in the int conference proceedings because from your previuos post you wrote:

"I have submitted 3 publications in international journals on my Ph.D. research work"

Apologies for confusion. I have checked my HSMP package I sent in December last year and found that I sent 3 publications in the international journals and one 2005 conference paper.

In my opinion, if someone is doing PhD degree and publishing their work in 3 international conference his acheivement does not seem to qualify as significant achievement. Why ?

OF COURSE completing your Ph.D. is already a significant achievement in your life! Goes without saying. This is why the scientists will be in the Tier 1 under the new Points Based Scheme.

- Publishing PhD work is a necessity as part of the study and not special.
- Appilicant have got more point compared to other degrees on the PHD degree.
- Most of PhD students know that publishing work in int conference proceedings is dead easy.

Excuse me, are you nuts?! Have you ever done a Ph.D. in your life?? Do you ever begin to imagine how much work and effort has to put into it in order to reach the level of a Doctorate???? Do you know what you have to do in order to write a good scientific paper, submit it, get it approved by 3 referees?!?! You cannot just simply begin to judge on something if you have not done it yourself.

-Anyone did PhD degree will defenitely have at least 3 publications in int conference proceedings. So Any PhD graduate from all over the world with a little work experience will qualify for HSMP ???

OF COURSE THEY WILL! You just seem like living in another world. It is not only the UK but also other countries readily recognise these achievements (in my case, Australia has done that instantly).

[pantaiema]

Dear Jeff

"I have submitted 3 publications in international journals on my Ph.D. research work"

This is evidence that publication in int journal is more valuable for achievement rather then int conference proceedings. Most of PhD graduate know that publishing yourwork in conference proceeding is easy. They need your money to fund their conference.

OF COURSE completing your Ph.D. is already a significant achievement in your life! Goes without saying. This is why the scientists will be in the Tier 1 under the new Points Based Scheme.

PhD degree has aready been considered in the qualification.
30 Point for PhD, while only 25 points for masters degree.

Excuse me, are you nuts?! Have you ever done a Ph.D. in your life?? Do you ever begin to imagine how much work and effort has to put into it in order to reach the level of a Doctorate???? Do you know what you have to do in order to write a good scientific paper, submit it, get it approved by 3 referees?!?! You cannot just simply begin to judge on something if you have not done it yourself.

Jeff, I did not say that PhD study is easy, indeed it is very hard, I know that. I am also against the opinion which provocate that PhD study is easy.
Sometimes you have to spend time alone all night in your Lab/dept/Institute while most people have slept already. I know that feelings.

What I was saying is that Publishing work in int conference proceedings are much easier than publishing in the Int Journal. Most people who have published their work in int. conference proceedings and Int. Journal know that.

Every PhD student need to attend the international conference in their field as part of their PhD study. Say they attend 1 conference every year if they study for 4 years they should have had at least 4 publications in int conference proceeedings. Thus, having 4 conference paper if you have PhD degree is nothing special. Almost every PhD Graduate already have this. PhD degree has been rewarded more points in the qualification (30 points).

I do not like to supply any personal information.

OF COURSE THEY WILL! You just seem like living in another world. It is not only the UK but also other countries readily recognise these achievements (in my case, Australia has done that instantly).

Any PhD graduate from all over the world with a little work experience will qualify for HSMP ?? I believe, the people who design HSMP program will not make this kind of blunder !!!

I know quite reasonable number of PhD graduates in the UK can not find HSMP level job.They do not qualify for HSMP either. If some PhD gradutes can not find HSMP level Job in the UK what is the point to give them HSMP.

In the UK it self every year, how many people get PhD scholarships from ORSAS, EPSRC, ESRC, SSRC. How many people get sholarship from their own university, government ?? We could add all of this figure !!


Pantaiema