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PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Sat May 14, 2011 12:12 pm

Try being absolutely, completely upfront and you may save yourself some trouble.

You mention a tour of Europe to play your music, are you going to mention this to the Dutch immigration officer or are you just going to say you are there for a holiday again?
bello_returns wrote:A little background info:
My friend and I are BOTH US citizens and US nationals as well bearing United States passports. We are both solo musicians and we set up a European tour in UK, Holland, Belgium and Germany. Our first show was to be Manchester. We only intended to stay in the UK for about a week and then we were going to ferry over to Amsterdam. These were all to be non-paying gigs. We also decided to make this a vacation trip.….….

bello_returns
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Post by bello_returns » Sat May 14, 2011 5:26 pm

To the previous commenter, we aren't performing this time. This is just a holiday in belated celebration of my friend's birthday. (His b-day is the 18th and we leave the 26th). IF we are asked why we're traveling on emergency passports, we are going to say that we had planned to visit the UK for 5 of the days out of our 2 week holiday at the last minute. We applied for priority service but because we had previously been refused entry we were deemed an "exceptional" case and it would take longer than 48 hrs so we had no choice but to get new passports.

Since, they would have no knowledge of our previous refusal, technically I could lie and I'm sure that'd be a much less of a hassle since then they'd probably attempt to look into the refusal but I really don't want to risk lying because in the UK even when we didn't intend to lie it got us a whole bunch of grief so we're just gonna be upfront this time. However, if they don't ask us anything about it, I certainly am not going to volunteer the information.

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Post by bello_returns » Wed May 18, 2011 6:45 pm

Still no word from the Visa place. I think I will end up having to get a new passport.

I have a new question because there is a detail I forgot. We have a layover in Keflavik just like we did last time. We had a Schengen stamp stamped in our passports the last time. But because we landed in London, this obviously made no difference.

Now, from what I understand, flying in the Schengen zone is almost the same as flying domestically and you are only stamped in at your FIRST entry into the zone, and stamped out at your exit of the zone. So no matter how many countries within the zone you travel between, you will only be stamped in and out.

So technically speaking, if I we are stamped at the Keflavik airport, we won't have to pass through immigration at Amsterdam at all right? I mean we'd have already entered the Schengen zone. Last time I visited Iceland (and I did indeed visit, although it was for one day only and it was AFTER the UK refusal because we were sent back to Iceland) they asked us maybe 2 questions and then stamped us through. I don't want to get my hopes up but this seems like very good news because we had a completely smooth passport check into Iceland.

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Post by mulderpf » Wed May 18, 2011 7:44 pm

bello_returns wrote:Still no word from the Visa place. I think I will end up having to get a new passport.

I have a new question because there is a detail I forgot. We have a layover in Keflavik just like we did last time. We had a Schengen stamp stamped in our passports the last time. But because we landed in London, this obviously made no difference.

Now, from what I understand, flying in the Schengen zone is almost the same as flying domestically and you are only stamped in at your FIRST entry into the zone, and stamped out at your exit of the zone. So no matter how many countries within the zone you travel between, you will only be stamped in and out.

So technically speaking, if I we are stamped at the Keflavik airport, we won't have to pass through immigration at Amsterdam at all right? I mean we'd have already entered the Schengen zone. Last time I visited Iceland (and I did indeed visit, although it was for one day only and it was AFTER the UK refusal because we were sent back to Iceland) they asked us maybe 2 questions and then stamped us through. I don't want to get my hopes up but this seems like very good news because we had a completely smooth passport check into Iceland.
Yes, travel inside the Schengen zone is generally treated as "domestic" travel where there is usually no immigration control when arriving from or travelling to another Schengen country.

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Post by Mr Rusty » Thu May 19, 2011 5:51 am

You keep mentioning getting a "new" passport, or an "emergency" passport. I hope you know what you're doing. I may be wrong, but I suspect the US authorities would be disinclined to issue you with a new passport when the whereabouts of your current valid passport is known, and is in the hands of another country's embassy. The correct course would be to withdraw your application to the UK and get your passport back.
If you don't inform the US passport office of the true location of your current passport, they will quite possibly cancel it, and then if your UK application was successful, all you would have is a visa in an invalid passport.
As I say, maybe I'm wrong and there is some provision for you to get a legal temporary passport for your trip.

bello_returns
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Post by bello_returns » Thu May 19, 2011 6:21 am

Mr Rusty wrote:You keep mentioning getting a "new" passport, or an "emergency" passport. I hope you know what you're doing. I may be wrong, but I suspect the US authorities would be disinclined to issue you with a new passport when the whereabouts of your current valid passport is known, and is in the hands of another country's embassy. The correct course would be to withdraw your application to the UK and get your passport back.
If you don't inform the US passport office of the true location of your current passport, they will quite possibly cancel it, and then if your UK application was successful, all you would have is a visa in an invalid passport.
As I say, maybe I'm wrong and there is some provision for you to get a legal temporary passport for your trip.
My friend, the one who was with me when we were refused and also sent his passport for a visa received his new passport yesterday. Its a regular US passport not an emergency or temporary one. It DOES say its a replacement but other than its normal. Because I had priority service I decided to wait a bit longer but if I haven't heard anything by tomorrow, I'm going in on Friday. I was with my friend through the whole process and we told them exactly what happened and where our passports were. He received his yesterday so since we have the exact same situation I'm assuming I'll get mine as well.

What we planned to do was, if we are granted UK visas, once we arrive in Amsterdam, we'll visit the UK embassy in Holland, explain the situation and ask if we can get another stamp in our new passports. if they say no, or we're denied then we won't be leaving Schengen. :/

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Post by mulderpf » Thu May 19, 2011 8:09 am

bello_returns wrote: What we planned to do was, if we are granted UK visas, once we arrive in Amsterdam, we'll visit the UK embassy in Holland, explain the situation and ask if we can get another stamp in our new passports. if they say no, or we're denied then we won't be leaving Schengen. :/
You cannot just arrive at the embassy and ask them questions. It doesn't work like that. You need to get this sorted before leaving the US, otherwise you will be wasting your time even bothering going to the UK Embassy (which is not in Amsterdam, but The Hague). Unless you are a UK citizen, you cannot just arrive without an appointment.

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Post by Mr Rusty » Thu May 19, 2011 1:04 pm

Visa applications for the UK if you are in the Netherlands have to be made via Duesseldorf - see http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply ... etherlands

No-one in Amsterdam, the Hague or the Zuider Zee will be interested in your visa problems

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Post by bello_returns » Tue May 24, 2011 5:50 pm

Ok, the results are in.

My visa application was refused. However, the REASONS they refused it are actually not all that bad and I'm not too upset about it. The letter is 2 pages and too long to type verbatim but in a nutshell they refused it for 2 reasons.

1. Lack of evidence that I have sufficient funds for the 5 days.

2. I didn't have a letter of employment from my employer stating that I not only worked there but that I would still work there upon my return.

That's completely fair and I'm not too annoyed about that decision. Ironically, this letter made no use of the word "deception" and I am still assuming that I am not banned because they didnt mention it on this letter. The officer did say "I acknowledge that you stated your previous refusal..." and then he went on to briefly go into what happened.

I'm slightly annoyed because on my application, I made a note of the fact that my employer didn't have an official letterhead immediately available to make official documents. I included a phone number and that if they needed to verify my employment and vacation, they could call. I've seen immigration officers make phones calls to verify information so I don't see why this wasn't done. Also, if they had any reason to believe the number was fake, they easily could have done a google search (I'm an assistant manager at Domino's Pizza) and cross referenced the number on the website. I realize that its my responsibility to get a LETTER but I told them why I didn't have one and I don't see how a letter is any more credible than a phone call to the place of employment. The lack of financial documents I can completely understand because I don't have a bank account (on purpose) because I hate banks and I only use my credit card for bills.

My friend wants to still ferry over, bring the letter of refusal, bring a letter from my employer and our cash and then just be very upfront with the IO and explain that we would have re-applied had we had time. I'm not sure if I want to do this, it seems like a huge hassle but he wants to. My only worry is since he doesn't have HIS letter with the reasons, we don't know if his will be denied for other reasons. But we'll see. As of right now, we're sticking to Schengen. I understand the Brits are deciding to err on the side of caution but seriously they are a bit paranoid. I realize that I have to establish ties in America but I was born and raised here in Southern California and I know only ONE person in all of the UK and we are not even close friends. I'm not from a third world country, nor am I poor or impverished so I don't see why I'd have to go to such lengths to prove I won't overstay and/or work. The dates on the payslips I submitted were within one week of me mailing the app so clearly I was still employed. But they made their decision, and I'm fine with it. Its a lesson learned. I'll just have fun in Holland. :)

mulderpf
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Post by mulderpf » Tue May 24, 2011 6:02 pm

Sorry to hear about the refusal!

Just some comments on what you have said: if the clearance officers were to phone each time someone didn't or couldn't provide the right documentation, they would become switchboard operators rather than doing their work. It is, as you said, up to your to prove to them and not for them to run after you.

If I understand it correctly, despite being refused outside the UK, you (your friend wants you to) still try and come anyway. Don't expect them to have any sympathy for you. You've been denied twice, yet you will be trying again without getting prior entry clearance - just think of what it must look like to an ECO.

It's not just Britain that's so strict on their visa requirements - US is just as bad! Being from an impoverished country doesn't make it any more or less likely that you will overstay and never return home. The fact that for example you don't have a bank account, makes it quite credible that you might not want to stay to long in the US and come and make the UK your home. Who knows... Simply being from a first world country doesn't exempt you from the rules...

Enjoy Holland!

wf
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Post by wf » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:56 am

I just came across some information regarding the visiting performer visa and remembered this thread.

It seems this visa would have been suitable for the OP, I'm wondering why they could not have been admitted under it. I assume it was because it was not openly declared they were performing here?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visit ... rvisitors/
You will be an entertainer visitor, if during the course of your short visit, you intend to:

take part in broadcasts or public appearances, provided you are not being paid;

If you are a non-visa national, you do not need to obtain permission before you come here as an entertainer visitor.

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