Qualify under Zambrano judgement?

Giri · Post by **Giri** » Fri May 20, 2011 9:02 pm

Hi,

I am not living in Ireland at the moment. But I had lived in Ireland 6 years.My son is Irish national. Will I am eligible to qualify under Zambrano judgement? The judgement and Irish information on their website (INIS) is confusing. Can anyone clarify this? If anyone who has got their stamp under Zambrano judgement can explain here.

GIRI

fatty patty · Post by **fatty patty** » Sat May 21, 2011 12:28 pm

You can apply for visa to return to Ireland question is were you deported? The reason i ask is because its clearly stated on INIS website regarding those cases. If you have voluntarily left then you are still eligible provided your child is minor and dependent on you. Ask the nearest Irish embassy regarding application with the relevant documentation as mentioned here (i doubt the documentation to provide in the embassy be any different than what stated here)

Information specific to persons who have no current right of residency

Any person who is in the State and has no current right of residency, but who wishes to have their case considered in line with the principles of the Zambrano Judgment, must submit the following documentation to the INISâ€™ Repatriation Division (full address below) before their case can be considered:

(a) A colour copy of the bio-data page of the Irish citizen child's passport,

(b) The Irish citizen child's original Birth certificate - a copy is not acceptable,

(c) A colour copy of the bio-data page of the applicant's own passport,

(d) Two colour passport sized photographs, signed on the back by the applicant,

(e) Documentary evidence that the Irish citizen child is living in the State,

(f) Proof of the applicant's address and residence in Ireland (e.g. current utility bills etc.),

(g) Documentary evidence of the role the applicant is playing in his/her child's life (e.g. letters from schools, crÃ¨ches etc.) and

(h) Any other information that the applicant considers relevant to his/her case.

In addition, an applicant must provide answers to the following questions:

(a) Has he/she ever been convicted of a criminal offence in the State or abroad? If so, he/she must provide specific details.

(b) Are there any charges pending against him/her in the State or aboard? If so, he/she must provide details.

(c) Are there any Court Orders against you in relation to Family Law matters e.g. Barring Order, Care Order, Protection Order, Safety Order etc?

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/PB11000004

dodo123 · Post by **dodo123** » Sat May 21, 2011 1:28 pm

in regards to those who has no current residency,has anyone recieve any letter.please update

Giri · Post by **Giri** » Sat May 21, 2011 6:38 pm

Hi Fatty Patty,

I wasn't deported but voluntarily left the country because my work visa expired and I couldn't renew it. But my son is Irish. INIS mentioned for the deportation cases only in their website. They may be few rare cases like mine. But Minister stated in his statement after the judgement that the cases like mine will also be considered. Can I apply through the Solicitors? Anyway I had sent my details to the repatriation unit to consider my case. Let us see. I will update mine whenever I get reply. At the same time all should share their cases as well in this forum.

GIRI

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Tue May 31, 2011 11:45 am

Giri you need to apply for a visa at your nearest Irish Embassy. Writing to Repat will not be enough. You need to provide all supporting documents showing the story of how you came to leave Ireland and proof that you are living together with the child as a family since then. The first step is to apply online at inis.gov.ie , then send your passport and all other documents to the Irish Embassy. They will give you the address at the end of the online application process. Let us know how you get on.

Giri · Post by **Giri** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:24 am

Hi Immigration Lawyer,

Thanks for your info. But I do not need a visa to enter Ireland. I called the Irish Embassy in London. They told me that they are not aware of anything related to Zambrano case. They directed me to call the INIS. It was hard for me to contact the INIS from here. It is expensive too. So I sent some of the supporting documents (but not like mentioned in the web page) to the EU treaty section in Dublin. Then after few months they published the news in their web site. Then again sent a covering letter(explaining the story from the beginning) with documents like visa pages, child's passport copy, PPS no documents etc to Repat section. It all happened more than a month. But still didn't get any reply. Let us see what is going on and I will update whenever I get some feedback.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:54 am

Oh sorry Giri, you must be from a country that is non visa required, is that correct? In that case I would advise you to come to Ireland and then make your application. Have all your docs ready to show the immigration officer at the airport. The GNIB may give you a stamp without you having to apply to Repat, or you could write again to Repat showing you have entered Ireland and asking them to issue you a letter granting residency. You won't be able to apply from the UK, I don't think, as you are non visa required.

Giri · Post by **Giri** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:51 am

Hi Immigration Lawyer,

As mentioned in your separate post you have attached the minister's speech at Dail. He has clearly mentioned that those who left voluntarily won't consider under Zambrano case. It may be waste of time and waste of money may be coming to Ireland and applying from there.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:06 pm

Yes, I suppose it depends on your personal situation and how much it is worth to you, if you have residency in the UK then you may wish to stay there. I do think you would have an excellent chance of getting Stamp 4 residency here.
Personally I love Ireland and I think it is a much better place to bring up children than the UK. But it depends on so many factors, whether you have family friends and contacts in your community in the UK. There may be more jobs there in the UK too I would say!

Single_mum · Post by **Single_mum** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:14 pm

[quote="ImmigrationLawyer"]Giri you need to apply for a visa at your nearest Irish Embassy. Writing to Repat will not be enough. You need to provide all supporting documents showing the story of how you came to leave Ireland and proof that you are living together with the child as a family since then. The first step is to apply online at inis.gov.ie , then send your passport and all other documents to the Irish Embassy. They will give you the address at the end of the online application process. Let us know how you get on.[/quote]

Pls advice about a similar case. I have an Irish Citizenc child but i live outside of the state. Ive never been in ireland before. Can i still apply under the judgment. What will the procedure be in such circumstance.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:26 pm

Procedure is that you apply for a visa at the Irish Embassy. Which country are you in now? The reason for applying should be "other" then explain under "Parent of Irish Citizen child."

Single_mum · Post by **Single_mum** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:36 pm

[quote="ImmigrationLawyer"]Procedure is that you apply for a visa at the Irish Embassy. Which country are you in now? The reason for applying should be "other" then explain under "Parent of Irish Citizen child."[/quote

oh, thanks for your reply. I'M in Nigeria at the moment. Do you have an idea the paPERwork they are looking for and how long the process takes

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:35 am

You need to provide all the papers proving and supporting the history of your case and your involvement in the life of your child. You should also submit the documents requested for Zambrano app's for people already resident - check the INIS website for this.

The application is to be made online at
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Applying%20Online

Then, you sign the Questionnaire and Application Summary Form forms and take to the Embassy at Abuja OR the Ireland Visa Application Centre at:

1st Floor, 16, Billingsway
Oregun Industrial Area
Ikeja, Lagos

You can check the requirements at the website of the Embassy at http://www.embassyofireland.org.ng The telephone number is 09 462 0612.

You also need to submit your original Passport, 2 Passport photos, the visa fees (see http://www.vfsglobal-ie-ng.com/visa-fees.aspx for the charges, it seems to be the equivalent of â‚¬60 plus a service charge).

A visa normally takes 6 weeks but these are unusual applications for D reside Visas so could take longer.

mauritania · Post by **mauritania** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:25 pm

Single_Mum as part of the Zambrano ruling you must show the role your playing in the childs life. Just thought I'd mention as you said you had never been to Ireland.

doc44 · Post by **doc44** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:06 pm

Hi Immigration lawyer and all.

This Zambrano case seems quite confusing now. I am in Northern Ireland for last 4 years. My child is born here and got irish nationality (not british). Northern Ireland is a part of UK so I do not have GNIB card because I have not lived in the state.
Q. Can i apply for stamp 4 for me and my wife under zambrano case.

Called immigration council of Ireland, very nice helpful lady informed me.
1) you should be resident in ireland not northern ireland.
2) child should be irish.
3) Normal habitant of Ireland not outside Ireland.

As I am not living in Ireland so I do not qualify. She also sent me links attached saying that your child must be resident and irish national.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000037
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fr ... 0questions

Faqs says that if you left Ireland voluntarily then you will not come under Zambrano case. Only deported people have the right to apply.

Any thought on this being northern Irish resident Irish child, no right to live and work in the state under zambrano case.

Regards,

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:31 pm

Did you see Jamie Smyth's article in the Irish times yesterday?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 89499.html

"The Department of Justice said yesterday it had already granted a small number of the applications for residency, and refused a small number. But most of the applications are still being considered, it said in a statement. "

doc44, that is interesting, I thought the Immigrant Council was not accepting the restrictive interpretation of Zambrano? Do you really want to live in the Republic? Do you have residence permission in the North (UK)? You have 2 options: travel down to the Republic relying on the right of free movement and residence of your child, and then make an application, or apply for a visa at the Irish Embassy (London), as the people in the Irish Times article have done.

doc44 · Post by **doc44** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:03 pm

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:Did you see Jamie Smyth's article in the Irish times yesterday?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 89499.html

"The Department of Justice said yesterday it had already granted a small number of the applications for residency, and refused a small number. But most of the applications are still being considered, it said in a statement. "

doc44, that is interesting, I thought the Immigrant Council was not accepting the restrictive interpretation of Zambrano? Do you really want to live in the Republic? Do you have residence permission in the North (UK)? You have 2 options: travel down to the Republic relying on the right of free movement and residence of your child, and then make an application, or apply for a visa at the Irish Embassy (London), as the people in the Irish Times article have done.

Hi

Thanks for the info. I read the article and it covers only people either deported or are illegally living in the state.

I am a legal resident in Northern Ireland on a UK work permit. My daughter has got Irish nationality recently. I want to move to Ireland because there are good jobs related to my profession in Ireland. Called Irish embassy in London too and they told me that I am not covered under Zambrano case and there is no visa category to support my application for travelling to Ireland on the basis of non EU parent of Irish child.

Only way I was told is to get a green card or work permit then move to Ireland reside there for a minimum of 6 months with your child then apply under zambrano case.

That is weired. Any advice or suggestion.

Regards.

ImmigrationLawyer · Post by **ImmigrationLawyer** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:16 am

Do you really want to come to Ireland? Have you researched the job opportunities available? Because you woul need to live here to get the status, you can't just get it and have it in case you might want to move in the future. I think the Embassy gave you incorrect advice. The Irish Embassy in Abuja told me to apply under the drop down heading "Other" and then write "Irish citizen child" in the space underneath. I have got visas for clients based on Irish citizen children in prevous years, even before Zambrano, it is definitely possible.

doc44 · Post by **doc44** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:46 am

[quote="ImmigrationLawyer"]Do you really want to come to Ireland? Have you researched the job opportunities available? Because you woul need to live here to get the status, you can't just get it and have it in case you might want to move in the future. I think the Embassy gave you incorrect advice. The Irish Embassy in Abuja told me to apply under the drop down heading "Other" and then write "Irish citizen child" in the space underneath. I have got visas for clients based on Irish citizen children in prevous years, even before Zambrano, it is definitely possible.[/quote

Hi immigration lawyer
Thanks for info here Irish embassy charge you a fortune for making a premium call and don't provide you the correct information.
Few things to confirm.
Do you need a job offer from Irish employer before applying for this visa you mentioned.
Is it a d type visa or c type visa.
After three months can I get stamp 4 or any other stamp.
Can my wife apply at the same time and travel with us

I am in highly skilled category being a phd and have good opportunities in Ireland in my field. I have done a research into jobs and will move their if gets a visa in the first place. Thanks.
Regards.

walrusgumble · Post by **walrusgumble** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:04 am

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:Did you see Jamie Smyth's article in the Irish times yesterday?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 89499.html

"The Department of Justice said yesterday it had already granted a small number of the applications for residency, and refused a small number. But most of the applications are still being considered, it said in a statement. "

doc44, that is interesting, I thought the Immigrant Council was not accepting the restrictive interpretation of Zambrano? Do you really want to live in the Republic? Do you have residence permission in the North (UK)? You have 2 options: travel down to the Republic relying on the right of free movement and residence of your child, and then make an application, or apply for a visa at the Irish Embassy (London), as the people in the Irish Times article have done.

The Immigration Council was asked for advice, not what they think should be the case but what the actual position is. The IRC did that. It does not indicate that they are in agreement with the Minister's interpretation.

They can accept what they like, what matters is what the National and European Courts accept.

What is "restrictive about Zambrano"? Its clear the case only involves Citizens who actually live in the country of birth and because their is a genuine risk of their deprivement of EU citizenship (ie residence and right to be with family) and the fact that one is a minor, they can then rely on Article 20 & 21 TFEU. Any further would be a complete (if it is not all ready so) violation of Article 5 TEU, not to mention the lack of decent judicial analysis made by the ECJ in coming to the opinion that they did .

I wonder what would be the scenerio if Ireland retained its Constitutional link (in reality only an aspiration) over Northern Ireland?

doc44 · Post by **doc44** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:16 am

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:Do you really want to come to Ireland? Have you researched the job opportunities available? Because you woul need to live here to get the status, you can't just get it and have it in case you might want to move in the future. I think the Embassy gave you incorrect advice. The Irish Embassy in Abuja told me to apply under the drop down heading "Other" and then write "Irish citizen child" in the space underneath. I have got visas for clients based on Irish citizen children in prevous years, even before Zambrano, it is definitely possible.

Hi Immigration lawyer, in your above stated quote you have mentioned that you have applied visas for non EU clients on the basis of Irish citizen child. Just want to confirm do they get C visa or long term D visa? Thanks.

Single_mum · Post by **Single_mum** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:19 am

[quote="mauritania"]Single_Mum as part of the Zambrano ruling you must show the role your playing in the childs life. Just thought I'd mention as you said you had never been to Ireland.[/quote]

My daughter is still an infant and was back home with me for a few months and will be back shortly. I am financially supporting my partner as well.

lenin · Post by **lenin** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:17 pm

hi

i am the father of an irish born citizen child from an irish mother! i am also a failed asylum seeker! i lived, worked and studied in ireland for nearly 5 years but was deported 5months b4 my child was born! my son is 2years now and we have never met although i exchange pictures and phone calls with the mother! i also send money regularly for his up keep in ireland! can i rely on zambrano to return?

pls advice

lenin · Post by **lenin** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:18 pm

hi

i am the father of an irish born citizen child from an irish mother! i am also a failed asylum seeker! i lived, worked and studied in ireland for nearly 5 years but was deported 5months b4 my child was born! my son is 2years now and we have never met although i exchange pictures and phone calls with the mother! i also send money regularly for his up keep in ireland! can i rely on zambrano to return?

pls advice

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