5 years for ILR rule implemented

a11 · Post by **a11** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:02 pm

===========================================

From: Stephen Kong

To: vbsi
Subject: Re: Judicial Review Application Lodged

Date: 14/07/06 07:07

Dear VBSI Team,

First of all, I apologise for being unable to reply to your email earlier. This was due to problems with my firm's email system, that is why I am writing to you via my own personal email account.

I thank you very much on behalf of Harvey Son & Filby Solicitors for your whole-hearted support in our campaign for justice.

We strongly believe Judicial Review is the right course of action to force the UK government to overturn the retrospective application of new settlement rules. We believe the new rules without transitional arrangement are clearly unlawful and incompatible with the affected hardworking and lawful immigrants' fundamental human rights enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights.

As regards the progress of our Judicial Review proceedings, we were expecting a substantive reply from the Treasury Solicitors acting on behalf of the Home Office, by 8 July 2006. But, they have requested an extension of time to 4 August 2006 as they are still awaiting further instructions from the Home Office. I will keep you informed of progress in due course.

As regards support, we certainly need financial support. This is because the present proceedings are mainly funded by our firm with less than �1500 (excluding our disbursements) are funded by the Claimants. As you may be aware, Judicial Review proceedings is a very expensive cause of action, normally costs around �10,000 to �15,000, we would therefore appreciate it if you could help raise funds in support of our cause for justice.

In addition, we also require information (as much as possible) relating to the consequences of the new changes on affected immigrants.

If you are able to help us in the ways proposed above, please let me know so that we could discuss the matter further. Perhaps, for the sake of formality, Harvey Son & Filby can send to you a letter by post to confirm the above, provided we have your postal address.

likewise · Post by **likewise** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:25 pm

a11, I would be happy to donate money straight to your personal bank account/paypal account, or any vbsi founders

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:35 pm

likewise wrote:a11, I would be happy to donate money straight to your personal bank account/paypal account, or any vbsi founders

What about Harvey Son & Filby Solicitors' account?

mona-de-bois · Post by **mona-de-bois** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:52 pm

Do we have a postal address that we can use as a permanent VBSI address?
Or at least an address which we can use for receiving the official letter from VBSI in discussion?

a11 wrote:===========================================
From: Stephen Kong
...
Perhaps, for the sake of formality, Harvey Son & Filby can send to you a letter by post to confirm the above, provided we have your postal address.

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:09 pm

mona-de-bois wrote:Do we have a postal address that we can use as a permanent VBSI address?
Or at least an address which we can use for receiving the official letter from VBSI in discussion?

Why not use the address of CL's firm? Also, someone based in London may pay a visit to Harvey & Filby & Kong and act as a permanent liason between that firm and the VBSI.

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:31 pm

Check it out:

http://www.vbsi.org.uk/index.php?mact=N ... eturnid=15
Christine Lee to meet with Immigration minister on July the 25th
"Friday 14 July 2006"
Christine Lee from North London Chinese Association, Andrew Dismore MP and several affected people including VBSI members are meeting with Immigration Minister Liam Byrne on July the 25th.

Lok Wong from North London Chinese Association said: "If the minister agrees on a compromise, it will be actioned a lot faster than Judicial Review, which will take up to a year and there is no guarantee as to how the High Court will seek to interpret the rules"

timefactor · Post by **timefactor** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:24 pm

a11: can you get SK's bank account and firm address for me please? i'll transfer a percentage of that i've promised

a11 · Post by **a11** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:32 pm

[quote="timefactor"]a11: can you get SK's bank account and firm address for me please? i'll transfer a percentage of that i've promised[/quote]

HARVEY SON & FILBY SOLICITORS Tel: + (44) (0) 208 349 8333 Fax: + (44) (0) 208 349 8777
Central House, 1 Ballards Lane, Finchley Central, London N3 1LQ

I do suggest that you ask them to provide you with some document confirming that the money you transfer will only be put towards expences on this particular case.

a11 · Post by **a11** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:38 pm

Tomorrow early afternoon I will be taking part in the advice stall in Chinatown aimed at letting people (including tourists) know about the problem and collecting as many signatures as possible for the petition.
We are going to be wearing yellow vests and will be available for a chat.
If any of you would like to come down and help, tomorrow or next Sunday, it'd be great. I can PM you my phone number for further info.

timefactor · Post by **timefactor** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:28 pm

thanks for this.

as long as i'm transfering money via BACS proof of payment is there, not too much worried about that

a11 wrote:
timefactor wrote:a11: can you get SK's bank account and firm address for me please? i'll transfer a percentage of that i've promised
HARVEY SON & FILBY SOLICITORS Tel: + (44) (0) 208 349 8333 Fax: + (44) (0) 208 349 8777
Central House, 1 Ballards Lane, Finchley Central, London N3 1LQ

I do suggest that you ask them to provide you with some document confirming that the money you transfer will only be put towards expences on this particular case.

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:55 am

timefactor wrote:as long as i'm transfering money via BACS proof of payment is there, not too much worried about that

It's not the point. They, the law firm, should vouch that they will use the money for this particular ILR45 Judicial Review. Surely your bank statement would show where your payment went, but not what the recipient did with it.

a11 · Post by **a11** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:17 am

Funny enough, it's turned out that SK is a former trainee of Christine Lee. She knows him very well.

a11 · Post by **a11** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:49 am

Dear all,

Last few weeks have been a bit hectic for VBSI, but now the things seem to be getting back on track. New members ready to contribute to our campaign (in both managing and executive capacities) are always welcome. If you'd like to become a member, please write to me: msp.vbsi at gmail.com. Also please let me know if you have already joined us but are still not receiving any news from vbsi-list.

Best regards,
a11

PS mona-de-bois, did you get my PM at rupoint?

a11 · Post by **a11** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:10 pm

Have just learnt that SK behaved in a little bit irresponsible and unfair way with Christine Lee a while ago. What he did was by far not a crime (it's to do with his working relationship with Christine as her former supervisor), so I'm not suggesting that this man is not to be dealt with, but just bear this thing in mind.

a11 · Post by **a11** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:19 pm

Another thing:

The judicial review approach (just as well as the lobbying approach) will involve much of an effort from everyone's own side.
Donations are by far not enough.
What everyone has to do for the lawsuit to have any chance of being successful is to start collecting strong and convincing cases of affected people.
This information will actually be as much of use for the lobbying approach as well, so it does not matter which one you are most in favour of - your effort will be very helpful.
If your own case is convincing enough, please write to VBSI and let us know about your hardship. Ask your friends/relatives/collegues if they are affected. Put information on your local poster board - and the one at your working place.
VBSI will soon come up with a version of such information poster. But please don't wait until we are ready - if you have your own ideas, go ahead with them and share them with us!

And thanks everyone for your support.

chibuya · Post by **chibuya** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:34 pm

Should we also ask what is the money for? For their campaign or for the legal case?
- if they already take someone's case on broad, why would we pay for someone else's case?

- if it is just a campaign- do we need to pay? why dont we just get our money to start a real court case?

- time limits - still a key - we need to act quickly

a11 wrote:
timefactor wrote:a11: can you get SK's bank account and firm address for me please? i'll transfer a percentage of that i've promised
HARVEY SON & FILBY SOLICITORS Tel: + (44) (0) 208 349 8333 Fax: + (44) (0) 208 349 8777
Central House, 1 Ballards Lane, Finchley Central, London N3 1LQ

I do suggest that you ask them to provide you with some document confirming that the money you transfer will only be put towards expences on this particular case.

chibuya · Post by **chibuya** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:39 pm

http://www.yougov.com/archives/pdf/OMI060101107_1.pdf

Please see the link above- this is one reason that why I think we should start a court action.

I have emailed HO to ask' if all the current WP/HSMP holder need to re-apply under the pionts system , if this pionts systems come into affect before they qualify ILR '

The answer from HO is' Due to the uncertainty nature of this question I could not answer '

Why would they just say- no, only new applicants need to go through the pionts system and that is the intention.

- So they did not deny the intention of any further changes!!! We need to fight for this case , otherwise things will just get worse!

andhraguy · Post by **andhraguy** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:57 pm

chibuya wrote: The answer from HO is' Due to the uncertainty nature of this question I could not answer '

Why would they just say- no, only new applicants need to go through the pionts system and that is the intention.

- So they did not deny the intention of any further changes!!! We need to fight for this case , otherwise things will just get worse!

I strongly believe that they will introduce points system very soon. They may not ask existing visa holders to reapply under new rules as that will become retrospective. But they might apply the rules when people go to HO for further extension or ILR.

If some one disagrees, they might again say that the points system can't come into effect until 2015 unless they follow these measures..

jayj · Post by **jayj** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:50 am

Chaps,

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding with regards to the point system is it applies to people applying for a new WP/HSMP. It does not apply to people applying for ILR.
Also, I spoke to a solicitor and Work Permit UK about this point system and they told me that if it is going to be implemented , it would be around 2008 not anytime soon.
But judging by the retrospective nature at HO , who knows what they would do

But I have a dream that one day...

rg1 · Post by **rg1** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:58 am

HO has lost all its credibility and one must not trust HO anymore.

They can't catch illegal immigrants - so they will only talk to legal immigrants.

Although till now they said point system only for new WP/HSMP but after the retrospective 5-year ILR rule, there is still possiblity that some people will be denied ILR even after 5 years!

jayj · Post by **jayj** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:29 am

there is still possiblity that some people will be denied ILR even after 5 years!

Well they better have bloody good excuses for this denying after 5 years else they going to be pushing people into the illegal status and god knows what. The fish rots from the head...

nonothing · Post by **nonothing** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:39 am

jayj wrote:Also, I spoke to a solicitor and Work Permit UK about this point system and they told me that if it is going to be implemented , it would be around 2008 not anytime soon.

it's definitely not right. it could be as soon as the end of this year or the beginning of next year.

HO hopes the point-based system could solve all their problems.

JR wants IND out of the HO next April (from last night's news).

you have to believe they're going to do it as soon as they can.

jayj · Post by **jayj** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:21 am

Nonothing, your information should be authentic else it simply gets everyone in a frenzy and worry. If workpermits informed us that HO going to be implementing point system within 2 years and HO cannot tell us when they going to do it as it has to go through proper channels and testing from Tier 1 to Tier 5.
We can only guess and work ourselves up in this. The only thing we should be getting on with is providing the funds for a court case and gte the ball rolling else we can guess how much we want to and be paranoid and when it does come upon us , we use up our energy in worrying abuot how HO office did this and that but we should use the energy in getting this rule reverted. If JR(who is he?) wants IND out of HO , does that mean point system in place for us? or is it being paranoid?
People there has been lots of time spent discussing which is good to an extent but we need to take this to court or else...

chibuya · Post by **chibuya** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:14 am

I could not agree more to take a legal action. The future is unpridicatable thus a court review should be bought on as soon as possible

- I just want to know - how do we collect money
- do we have a lay firm to take on this case

Please note - i am not for putting money to support for the other people's case and any lobbying campaigns

I think we should stay focus and get our own case started

nonothing · Post by **nonothing** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:59 am

jayj wrote:Nonothing, your information should be authentic else it simply gets everyone in a frenzy and worry.

... Highly skilled workers such as doctors, engineers and IT experts would get the most points under the system, due in place from mid-2007 at the earliest... (source: BBC, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4781030.stm)

please be aware that this article was published in March under the Charles Clarke regime. now the HO is speeding everything up, because they think the point system is the only rescue for them. LB (Liam Byrne) implied that it could be as soon as the end of this year on the Home Affairs Select Committee. (you can check the previous posts)

jayj wrote:If JR(who is he?) wants IND out of HO , does that mean point system in place for us? or is it being paranoid?

JR is John Reid.

no, it doesn't mean point system in place for us nor being paranoid. it means there will be a major reform of the HO, which will put everything uncertain.

jayj wrote:People there has been lots of time spent discussing which is good to an extent but we need to take this to court or else...

i'll be more than happy put my money into the court case. but where is it and how to do it?

i'm sorry guys, but i do have a feeling that the immigrants are just about deserving what they got.

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5 years for ILR rule implemented