HSMP Refusal, All points zero

[ChaoticDjinn]

Hello All,

I just got my refusal from Home Office and no points have been awarded in any of the sections. The reason given is that BHC couldnt verify my documents.

Here is the timeline and the list of documents I provided...

Timeline:

Application received by Home Office : 6th April 2006
Ref Number : 067***
Decision letter dated : 14th July, 2006
Letter received by me : 21st July, 2006

List of documents and points claimed for various sections:
Total points claimed : 80

Proof of Age

Notarised copy of my passport
Points claimed : 5
Points awarded : 0

Education

Original degree (B.Tech) certificate from Regional Engg College, India
Points claimed : 15
Points awarded : 0

Work Experience

I have more than 6 years of full time graduate level experience in the IT industry. All of this experience is from a single company, a leading IT company in India.

Docs provided were Employer's reference letter (Original) and Appointment letter from employer (Original)

Points claimed : 35
Points awarded : 0

Past Earnings

This gets a little complicated. In 2005-2006, for which I had to show my past earnings, I was in UK for 6 months (onsite for a client) and the rest 6 months in India.

While I was in UK, I was paid my usual salary in India and an allowance in UK. My Indian salary by itself satisfies the income band requirements for India and the allowance provided when in UK satisfies the income band requirements for the UK.

I submitted my original payslips (printouts from company website, which has company logo etc. Company doesnt provide payslips in paper form and getting the print outs signed by HR is not encouraged) for march 2005 - Feb 2006 along with my annual pay revision letters for the same period which specify my earnings clearly.

For evidence of my earnings in UK, I had provided my original work permit documents from Home Office, which states my allowance in UK. I had also attached my bank statements for that period.

Points claimed : 25
Points awarded : 0

Partner's Achievements

I didnt claim any because we havent been married for 2 years.

In past earning, I didnt submit my tax returns because the financial year in India is April to March and I didnt have the tax returns for the period required.

I have no idea what information BHC was unable to verify or why I was awarded 0 points in all sections. I am preparing my case for review and am planning to call them to know the case worker's notes.

Any insight into why my application was rejected is welcome and I will be grateful for any help in preparing for my review.

Thank you in advance

[drguptagaurav]

Hi,

Thats quite shocking. Did they try and contact your univer. employer etc. If you had submitted original degree how can you get 0 points. i am about to apply soon and would be really helpful if you can keep me posted.

Best of luck

gaurav

[madanrm]

Did u give two sets of evidences for each ? If yes then i really wonder what was the issue.

cya
Madan

[ChaoticDjinn]

Yes, indeed. I had given the below to show Earning Power:

1. To show Indian Salary - Payslips from March 2005 till February 2006 (since I applied during March 2006) & Annual Compensation Letters from my employer for both 2004-2005 & 2005-2006. Since the financial year is from April till March, I didn't have my tax documents for the last year.

2. For UK Allowance - I had provided the Home Office Work Permit document itself which showed my income. Plus, Bank statements for the effective period.

It went into a Verification process, and then today I got the refusal letter. All documents are Originals / Computer-generated document printouts.

Could it be because one or two pages of the printouts might not have been of the best quality? And they considered the documents are not authentic?? Anybody's guess!

[MWazir]

Since the financial year is from April till March, I didn't have my tax documents for the last year.

Tax documents are essentail to claim points in the earning category. You should still have submitted the tax documents for the financial year ending April 2005.

[pranav_mathur]

Proof of Age

Notarised copy of my passport
Points claimed : 5
Points awarded : 0

I think you should have submitted one original document. A copy of passport may not be sufficient. A driving license, 10th passing certificate or PAN card are good support documents.

Education

Original degree (B.Tech) certificate from Regional Engg College, India
Points claimed : 15
Points awarded : 0

There is no reason why you shouldn't get points for your degree; REC B.Tech should be in the recognized degrees list.

Work Experience

I have more than 6 years of full time graduate level experience in the IT industry. All of this experience is from a single company, a leading IT company in India.

Docs provided were Employer's reference letter (Original) and Appointment letter from employer (Original)

Points claimed : 35
Points awarded : 0

Appointment letter must be 6 years old so it really isn't a proof. Does your employer's reference letter give some information about the work you did? Remember it should be a proof of "Graduate Level" work.

Past Earnings

This gets a little complicated. In 2005-2006, for which I had to show my past earnings, I was in UK for 6 months (onsite for a client) and the rest 6 months in India.

While I was in UK, I was paid my usual salary in India and an allowance in UK. My Indian salary by itself satisfies the income band requirements for India and the allowance provided when in UK satisfies the income band requirements for the UK.

I submitted my original payslips (printouts from company website, which has company logo etc. Company doesnt provide payslips in paper form and getting the print outs signed by HR is not encouraged) for march 2005 - Feb 2006 along with my annual pay revision letters for the same period which specify my earnings clearly.

For evidence of my earnings in UK, I had provided my original work permit documents from Home Office, which states my allowance in UK. I had also attached my bank statements for that period.

Points claimed : 25
Points awarded : 0

Your payslips will not be considered unless they are attested. Whatever is your excuse for this, it can not be considered by the case worker. Remember it’s very easy to prepare a forge payslip so it is imperative to get it attested by the employer.
For your UK allowance, I don’t think bank statements by themselves would suffice. Did they match exactly with your work permit document?

In past earning, I didnt submit my tax returns because the financial year in India is April to March and I didnt have the tax returns for the period required.

As someone already mentioned even last years tax returns slip could be useful here.

[ChaoticDjinn]

I think you should have submitted one original document.

Why, since in the guidelines its given that a notarised copy of passport is said to be acceptable? Do they not go by their own guidelines? Are we supposed to second guess them all the time?

There is no reason why you shouldn't get points for your degree; REC B.Tech should be in the recognized degrees list.

Baffles me completely!

Appointment letter must be 6 years old so it really isn't a proof.

Just because a document is 6 years old does it lose its authenticity? I thought it increases it!

Does your employer's reference letter give some information about the work you did? Remember it should be a proof of "Graduate Level" work.

Yes, it does. It gives the list of job titles I held in the company and what my responsibilities were during them.

Your payslips will not be considered unless they are attested. Whatever is your excuse for this, it can not be considered by the case worker. Remember it’s very easy to prepare a forge payslip so it is imperative to get it attested by the employer.

If I decide to reapply, I'll take that into consideration, Thanks. Now that am going for the free review I dont know how to convince them of its authenticity is my concern

For your UK allowance, I don’t think bank statements by themselves would suffice. Did they match exactly with your work permit document?

The permit documents mention the allowance before taxes. The allowance credited into our account is after the tax is deducted at source. I mentioned this in the description of my evidence and I met the income band for UK after the tax as well.

As someone already mentioned even last years tax returns slip could be useful here.

Like they say, hindsight is 20/20

[rkc]

Quote:
There is no reason why you shouldn't get points for your degree; REC B.Tech should be in the recognized degrees list.


Baffles me completely!

Just speculating here (a very long shot): the RECs have been rechristened to National Institute of Technology. Probably, you did not mention this somewere? Unlikely though, any verification agency worth its salt should be able to infer that the NIT's were once the REC's.

After all, the REC's/NIT's are among the premier engineering institutes in India next only to the IIT's and IISc...

[rely]

Quote:
There is no reason why you shouldn't get points for your degree; REC B.Tech should be in the recognized degrees list.


Baffles me completely!

Just speculating here (a very long shot): the RECs have been rechristened to National Institute of Technology. Probably, you did not mention this somewere? Unlikely though, any verification agency worth its salt should be able to infer that the NIT's were once the REC's.

After all, the REC's/NIT's are among the premier engineering institutes in India next only to the IIT's and IISc...

Feed information and explain things to these guys, case workers, in such a way that they need not use their brains or move their mule to verify it.
rely

[ChaoticDjinn]

ust speculating here (a very long shot): the RECs have been rechristened to National Institute of Technology. Probably, you did not mention this somewere? Unlikely though, any verification agency worth its salt should be able to infer that the NIT's were once the REC's.

I did mention it!

[ChaoticDjinn]

Feed information and explain things to these guys, case workers, in such a way that they need not use their brains or move their mule to verify it.

I intend to do this in this review. Thanks for the tip!

[sajid.razzaque]

I have submitted (Earning proof)
Payslips (last 12 mints).
Salary certificate.

These are two proofs. this should be enough becouse they need any two as they mentioned in thier form. so please moderator or any one else , is this not enough.

[madanrm]

Dear All
Let me give my comments again very clearly. Purely from caseworkers angle.

Age Proof :
1. Attested passport 2. None = So there is no second evidence to prove ur age = 0 points
Education background
1. Only degree certificate 2 None (No marksheets, no provisional, no academic reference) = 0 points
Salary
1. No attested payslips 2. None = 0 points.
Work experience
No detailed work experience = 0 points .

Kindly let me know if i have mentioned the correct scenario wrt the documents

[vidya]

no you havent

[aj_sp_007]

hi..

Applied from India .Working in IT Sector.same thing happened with me...dunno what was the reason...claimed for 105 :

1. Age - 5
2. Education - 15
3. Partners Achievements : 10
4. Work Exp : 50
5. Pay Slips : 25

I Scored '0'. Refusal letter states HO were unable to verify my documents.
Mailed them...to know the reason...mailed me back with the case workers name...called her up....said its not possible to speak to her...dunno what to do...applied in september 05' got the refusal by 1st weeek of dec 05.
....guys please help in a mess.... can neone telll...me what to do...
i read somewhre .... u can apply as a fresh applicant.....will they know about my previous application . dont want to forge or something...just want to know....what will be the chances of success.....i think its very difficult for indians to get through....
Om SHanti...

help
aj_sp_007
________
FULL MELT BUBBLE HASH

[ChaoticDjinn]

Hiya, no offences meant - but if you want to see this from the Caseworker's angle, you'll have to go through atleast the guidelines.

In the Guidelines, the ONLY criteria where two sets of documents are to be provided is for "Past Earning". One set is sufficient for all others. Also, for Educational Background, they have mentioned very clearly that Marksheets are NOT necessary.

Maybe we are just reading too much from what is mentioned in the Caseworkers' manual & the HSMP Application Guidelines, don't you think?

Thanks for the response anyway! Again - no offences meant.

Dear All
Let me give my comments again very clearly. Purely from caseworkers angle.

Age Proof :
1. Attested passport 2. None = So there is no second evidence to prove ur age = 0 points
Education background
1. Only degree certificate 2 None (No marksheets, no provisional, no academic reference) = 0 points
Salary
1. No attested payslips 2. None = 0 points.
Work experience
No detailed work experience = 0 points .

Kindly let me know if i have mentioned the correct scenario wrt the documents

[lanwarrior]

All documents are Originals / Computer-generated document printouts.

I am not sure which documents you submitted are "computer-generated", but the HSMP Caseworker guidance for "Past Earning" stated that if your paystub are printed on a regular A4 paper, it will NOT be accepted.

However, even with the above, you SHOULD get points for the other things in which you have the original documents, such as your certificate of degree.

[sohail akhter]

Listen everybody!!!

It's instruction for case worker "If BHC is unable to verify the documents, points awarded are always "ZERO"

[lanwarrior]

Listen everybody!!!

It's instruction for case worker "If BHC is unable to verify the documents, points awarded are always "ZERO"

Sohail,

I think many people are aware of the above. However, due to the uniqueness situation of each application, it is always difficult to know how the case worker will "verify the authenticity" of the documents. That's why everyone try to ask question and provide answer, especially from those who had the application approved.

I know that (from the other thread) some people are submitting just photocopies of the document, thus the case worker can't authenticate the document. However, the original poster submitted the original certificate of degree and it got rejected (??).

I travelled a lot and have worked in 3 different countries, thus I have dealt with immigrations officers and they're always the worst government workers to deal with. It seems that these immgration officers (HSMP case worker included) sometimes are just being unreasonable and it's very difficult for the foreigner to fight back.

Just my 2 cents.

[ChaoticDjinn]

I'm happy to say my EC got approved today finally. I know this post is very disjointed, to say the least.

After I got the initial "rather strange" refusal (please read messages above) I went through atleast two reviews. And the HSMP team very dutifully lost my review requests both times. Spent a fortune on phone calls and faxes. All to get a final decision, whether good or bad.

One good soul from HSMP team wrote to me to say they'll look into the matter this time, and there you go - I got my HSMP approval in April '07, after an year since I applied.

Today, got the EC. I got a job in UK a long time ago, and that is part of the reason I chose to chase up my original HSMP. The other of course is the "strangeness" of the refusal itself

It's all good news finally. Thanks to the forum that helped me a lot!

[sakura]

Congrats!!

I was wondering why this old thread was dug up!! hehe
It must have been a very nice caseworker that still looked at your case after all that time.

When are you planning on coming to COLD and WET and WINDY Britain?

We welcome you with open, wet arms, dear newcomer.

(sorry, British humour for you.)

[EdgeHillMole]

I got my HSMP approval in April '07, after an year since I applied.

Congratulations! I know many of us who applied in 2004 had to wait the better part of a year before they would even LOOK at our HSMP application (Let alone decide on it), so we know how difficult and painful waiting a year in the HO queue can be.