Problems with my Superviser

[En-Xtremis]

Hello,

I am new this forum but am in desperate need of advice.

I am currently living and working in Ireland on a Work Permit and have been doing so for almost four years. Last year, a new supervisor was hired for my department. At first everything was fine but then things took a drastic turn. I don't know what he has against me but he has been treating me differently than the other people in my department and the work place has become for lack of a better word, hostile. I have done nothing wrong so he can't fire me and he knows that but I get the feeling he trying to make me miserable enough that I will quit and quit frankly, I want to quit.

I done everything to try to resolve the issue that I can think of. I have asked to have a meeting with my supervisor to talk with him and get to the root of what ever the problem is and solve it. But nothing gets resolved at these meetings...he just talks around in circles and I leave more confused than when I went in. I even when over his head to his boss to try to get this issue resolved. I told his boss that my aim wasn't to cause problems and that I had had meetings with my supervisor but I was not satisfied that the issue had been resolved. Me doing that just made things worse and made my supervisor more hostile.

I want to quit desperate but I do not want me quit to compromise my residency in Ireland. I have actually been offered a job at another company but due to the economic situation, they want me to pay for my new work permit. Normally this would not be a problem but my Grandfather just passed away... literally last month and I had to return to attend his funeral with short notice. This short notice flight cost me almost 2,000 Euro so I now can't afford to pay for my new work permit.

Do I have any options or rights? Is the only option I have here to get a new work permit for this new job and quit my old one? I just don't know what to do. Any help or advice would be welcomed.

[knapps]

Talk to that dingleberry to back off.
You should contact HR in your company. Give them the notice in writing so you have it in record.

Talk to speakup.ie
this is a new service to help those whose rights have been violated
or they face discrimination

If that does not work out...you better have him fired somehow:-))

[En-Xtremis]

I appreciate the reply.

My company does not have an HR department.. My supervisors boss is the closest thing I had to an HR department and as I said, that just made things worse. My working life is Hell at the moment...

The only other things I have to say is that I am not sure if it is discrimination. He has not made any remarks or statements that I have taken as beloved. I have no idea what his problem is though... when I discussed the problem with my supervisor, he started just talking nonsense, blaming me certain things are not even my responsibility and some of which happened on my days off. It was a absolute joke and the fact remains, if I had actually done those things, then they would fire me.... but they know I haven't.

I will check out speakup.ie. I appreciate the advice.

[walrusgumble]

hang on, you need to be very practical here.even if you get a job offer in a new place, the chances of getting the permit from the department are likely to be slim n none.if you want to stay in ireland,don't leave your job until you have a work permit for the new job.the likelihood of new employer waiting for you to get permit and then give notice to old boss are low.you can resort to your trade union or equality tribunal.but remember,once your current visa expires, your boss is not obliged to continue your employment.i don't like saying this but it might be wise to suck it up n keep head down and hope they will renew current visa.knapps some of the things you suggested are careless.op,what has you head boss said?

[En-Xtremis]

My supervisors boss was very polite when I spoke with him. He said that he was unaware of the issue and they he would do what he could to find a resolution. I do know that he did go and talk with my supervisor about it because my Supervisor called me into his office and yelled at me because I went and talked to his boss. But things got a little better but only for a month or so before things were right back where they were and then got worse. I tried to go talk with my supervisors boss again to him know that the situation had not changed and in fact... got a little worse, more heated. But he wasn't at work that day so I made an appointment and asked to see him at his earliest convenience. My supervisor got wind of this though and called me at home on my day off yelling at me.... saying things like. "You will not talk with "his boss" without going through me first. If you ever want to have anything to do with this company ever again, you will talk to me and then IF I deem it necessary, I will set up a meeting with my supervisor.

Basically, he was telling me to stop going to him..... No matter what I try to do it just seems to make things worse on me. I haven't tried to make anymore meetings with my supervisors boss but things are still bad and I am miserable. It is become obvious that no matter what the issue is, having a meeting with my supervisor is not going to solve anything. And now he has all but forbid me from speaking with his supervisor. Again this company doesn't have an HR department so I don't know who else I can speak with.

[walrusgumble]

talk to a lawyer.then make a formal written complaint about your supervisor,clearly highlighting that he treatened you for complaining against him.personally handing it to the main boss and inform him that you are likely to be reprimanded by super for doing this.if all fails with advice of lawyer,threaten legal proceedings (very last resort as you need to renew permit.citizenship & long term residency decisions take years)talk to work permit dept regarding likelihood of getting a new permit if you change jobs in light of your trouble.does supervisor have a say in hiring n firing?

[9jeirean]

My supervisors boss was very polite when I spoke with him. He said that he was unaware of the issue and they he would do what he could to find a resolution. I do know that he did go and talk with my supervisor about it because my Supervisor called me into his office and yelled at me because I went and talked to his boss. But things got a little better but only for a month or so before things were right back where they were and then got worse. I tried to go talk with my supervisors boss again to him know that the situation had not changed and in fact... got a little worse, more heated. But he wasn't at work that day so I made an appointment and asked to see him at his earliest convenience. My supervisor got wind of this though and called me at home on my day off yelling at me.... saying things like. "You will not talk with "his boss" without going through me first. If you ever want to have anything to do with this company ever again, you will talk to me and then IF I deem it necessary, I will set up a meeting with my supervisor.

Basically, he was telling me to stop going to him..... No matter what I try to do it just seems to make things worse on me. I haven't tried to make anymore meetings with my supervisors boss but things are still bad and I am miserable. It is become obvious that no matter what the issue is, having a meeting with my supervisor is not going to solve anything. And now he has all but forbid me from speaking with his supervisor. Again this company doesn't have an HR department so I don't know who else I can speak with.

Hi,

Can you be more specific about actions, events and issues that has have cropped up between you and your supervisor, as it is very difficult to make assertion on issues that are not specific. You may very well have a case here but unless we know for sure the specific actions and sequence of events we may very well be speculating here and that may not help in the very least. Can I also advice that you make a journal of events and record conversations and events that transpired between you and your supervisor in real time as they may become vague and subjective over time, which may not help your case should you need to refer back to them down the line.

In your personal opinion, what do you think is the major issue between you and your supervisor, interpersonal/personality clash, competency/skills, communication barrier etc? I ask because more often than not people tend to have an idea where the problem lies. Is there a pattern to what he says or do to you that you are not happy about? Has there been any feedback from him to you specifically about any aspect of your job?

In relation to Work permit and finding a new employer, What sector do you work in. Are you confident of getting a new W/P with your prospective employer?

I'll revert when we know more fact of the issue.


9jeirean

[En-Xtremis]

My permit has to be renewed in March anyway... at this point I think for the company to be willing to reknew my permit, they would have to ask them selves "Which one do we want to keep". The problem has gotten so big that I don't think they will keep us both. The only way I see them reknewing my permit anyway is if they let him go. Those odds don't sound good for me . I can believe the Department of Immigration doesn't have a policy to assist people in this regard. I really hat to hire a lawyer and all that because everyone else at the place has been very nice to me and I have a lot of good friends there. But at some point you have to start caring about that and look out for yourself. I am just worried right now because I honestly don't know how much more I can take..... it may very well come down to me getting another job or someone finding me dangling from the end of a rope... that is how bad things have gotten.

My Supervisor doesn't really have the final descision on who is hired or fired... his boss does that. But if they were going to renew my work permit... he would probably be asked about it.... which is why I don't think my permit will be reknewed unless they let my get rid of my supervisor.

Honestly... I don't even want to get him fired. I just want things the way they were before he came... I just want to work and live my life and be happy like I was before he came.

I can't believe under the circumstances, they would not just transfer my currently work permit with the same experation date to another company.... I would still have to reapply in march but at least I would be at a job were I am happy and am able to work at my best.

[En-Xtremis]

My supervisors boss was very polite when I spoke with him. He said that he was unaware of the issue and they he would do what he could to find a resolution. I do know that he did go and talk with my supervisor about it because my Supervisor called me into his office and yelled at me because I went and talked to his boss. But things got a little better but only for a month or so before things were right back where they were and then got worse. I tried to go talk with my supervisors boss again to him know that the situation had not changed and in fact... got a little worse, more heated. But he wasn't at work that day so I made an appointment and asked to see him at his earliest convenience. My supervisor got wind of this though and called me at home on my day off yelling at me.... saying things like. "You will not talk with "his boss" without going through me first. If you ever want to have anything to do with this company ever again, you will talk to me and then IF I deem it necessary, I will set up a meeting with my supervisor.

Basically, he was telling me to stop going to him..... No matter what I try to do it just seems to make things worse on me. I haven't tried to make anymore meetings with my supervisors boss but things are still bad and I am miserable. It is become obvious that no matter what the issue is, having a meeting with my supervisor is not going to solve anything. And now he has all but forbid me from speaking with his supervisor. Again this company doesn't have an HR department so I don't know who else I can speak with.

Hi,

Can you be more specific about actions, events and issues that has have cropped up between you and your supervisor, as it is very difficult to make assertion on issues that are not specific. You may very well have a case here but unless we know for sure the specific actions and sequence of events we may very well be speculating here and that may not help in the very least. Can I also advice that you make a journal of events and record conversations and events that transpired between you and your supervisor in real time as they may become vague and subjective over time, which may not help your case should you need to refer back to them down the line.

In your personal opinion, what do you think is the major issue between you and your supervisor, interpersonal/personality clash, competency/skills, communication barrier etc? I ask because more often than not people tend to have an idea where the problem lies. Is there a pattern to what he says or do to you that you are not happy about? Has there been any feedback from him to you specifically about any aspect of your job?

In relation to Work permit and finding a new employer, What sector do you work in. Are you confident of getting a new W/P with your prospective employer?

I'll revert when we know more fact of the issue.


9jeirean

Hello 9jeirean

I honestly don't really know what the complete issue is but I definatly think that miscommunication or lack of communication is playing a big factor in this... whether that is all of it.... I don't think it can be.

When I talked with him... he blames it all on me.... but he fusses at me for things that are not my responsibility and I told him it wasn't my responsibility... he gave in on that front a big. He would also try to blame things on me that happened on days that I was off...... It has become the way that everything that goes wrong in my department... is my fault in his eyes... whether or not I was even there. It is almost become a joke around the place with the other employees... Several of them have made errors and my supervisor will lay into me for it.... they will come to my defense and tell him that it was there fault... not mine... He will then apologize but it changes nothing, he still acts and treats me the same way. I truely believe he wants me to quit. I basically had a conversation with him where I told him and explained to him that I couldn't just quit that it wasn't that easy.

I work in the hospitality industry and work for a Hotel. Being that I have already been in the country for over three years, I do have some confidence that I would be granted a new work permit as long as all the conditions were met. The issue at the moment is money. As I said, I have been offered a job with another company but they want me to pay for the work permit..... as I said because of having to travel short notice for my Grandfathers funeral, I just don't have 1,000 Euro at the moment.

But the issues I have with my supervisor are the fact that I get blamed for everything that goes wrong in the work place regardless..... and the way he talks to me. I also think he crossed the line when he called me at home and yelled at me just for setting up an appointment to meet with his boss. And he did kind of suggest that if I did it again... that I would be fired... but he doesn't have the authority to do that. But if he was going to do that... he should have least waiting until I got back to work... not call me at home.

All of this is taking its toll on my personality as well. I am becoming more irritable and I am afraid that I am going to be at work.... and he will say something and I will snap..... then he will have reason to report my actions and try to get me fired..... I don't want that but I am here to say that things can't go on like this. This isn't a simple case of just putting my head down and getting through it. I am miserable.

I really appreciate your advice and I hope I have answered all of your question. If not please let me know and I will try again.

Thanks

[9jeirean]

My supervisors boss was very polite when I spoke with him. He said that he was unaware of the issue and they he would do what he could to find a resolution. I do know that he did go and talk with my supervisor about it because my Supervisor called me into his office and yelled at me because I went and talked to his boss. But things got a little better but only for a month or so before things were right back where they were and then got worse. I tried to go talk with my supervisors boss again to him know that the situation had not changed and in fact... got a little worse, more heated. But he wasn't at work that day so I made an appointment and asked to see him at his earliest convenience. My supervisor got wind of this though and called me at home on my day off yelling at me.... saying things like. "You will not talk with "his boss" without going through me first. If you ever want to have anything to do with this company ever again, you will talk to me and then IF I deem it necessary, I will set up a meeting with my supervisor.

Basically, he was telling me to stop going to him..... No matter what I try to do it just seems to make things worse on me. I haven't tried to make anymore meetings with my supervisors boss but things are still bad and I am miserable. It is become obvious that no matter what the issue is, having a meeting with my supervisor is not going to solve anything. And now he has all but forbid me from speaking with his supervisor. Again this company doesn't have an HR department so I don't know who else I can speak with.

Hi,

Can you be more specific about actions, events and issues that has have cropped up between you and your supervisor, as it is very difficult to make assertion on issues that are not specific. You may very well have a case here but unless we know for sure the specific actions and sequence of events we may very well be speculating here and that may not help in the very least. Can I also advice that you make a journal of events and record conversations and events that transpired between you and your supervisor in real time as they may become vague and subjective over time, which may not help your case should you need to refer back to them down the line.

In your personal opinion, what do you think is the major issue between you and your supervisor, interpersonal/personality clash, competency/skills, communication barrier etc? I ask because more often than not people tend to have an idea where the problem lies. Is there a pattern to what he says or do to you that you are not happy about? Has there been any feedback from him to you specifically about any aspect of your job?

In relation to Work permit and finding a new employer, What sector do you work in. Are you confident of getting a new W/P with your prospective employer?

I'll revert when we know more fact of the issue.


9jeirean

Hello 9jeirean

I honestly don't really know what the complete issue is but I definatly think that miscommunication or lack of communication is playing a big factor in this... whether that is all of it.... I don't think it can be.

When I talked with him... he blames it all on me.... but he fusses at me for things that are not my responsibility and I told him it wasn't my responsibility... he gave in on that front a big. He would also try to blame things on me that happened on days that I was off...... It has become the way that everything that goes wrong in my department... is my fault in his eyes... whether or not I was even there. It is almost become a joke around the place with the other employees... Several of them have made errors and my supervisor will lay into me for it.... they will come to my defense and tell him that it was there fault... not mine... He will then apologize but it changes nothing, he still acts and treats me the same way. I truely believe he wants me to quit. I basically had a conversation with him where I told him and explained to him that I couldn't just quit that it wasn't that easy.

I work in the hospitality industry and work for a Hotel. Being that I have already been in the country for over three years, I do have some confidence that I would be granted a new work permit as long as all the conditions were met. The issue at the moment is money. As I said, I have been offered a job with another company but they want me to pay for the work permit..... as I said because of having to travel short notice for my Grandfathers funeral, I just don't have 1,000 Euro at the moment.

But the issues I have with my supervisor are the fact that I get blamed for everything that goes wrong in the work place regardless..... and the way he talks to me. I also think he crossed the line when he called me at home and yelled at me just for setting up an appointment to meet with his boss. And he did kind of suggest that if I did it again... that I would be fired... but he doesn't have the authority to do that. But if he was going to do that... he should have least waiting until I got back to work... not call me at home.

All of this is taking its toll on my personality as well. I am becoming more irritable and I am afraid that I am going to be at work.... and he will say something and I will snap..... then he will have reason to report my actions and try to get me fired..... I don't want that but I am here to say that things can't go on like this. This isn't a simple case of just putting my head down and getting through it. I am miserable.

I really appreciate your advice and I hope I have answered all of your question. If not please let me know and I will try again.

Thanks

Do not snap, you already stated that you think he's doing what he's doing to get you fired. The last thing you want to do is to grant him that wish. As per my previous advice, keep a written record of all of such events and interactions. pay more attentions to word used other references made etc and get yourself a lawyer. Someone already mention www.speakup.ie give them a call for confidential advice.

If you are confident of securing another job and a new W/P, then go for it. Get a loan from friends, credit union etc and get yourself another option and another life.

My best wishes.

9jeirean

[aswadref]

may be ask the company to apply for the permit first and than they can take it from your wages every week

[Irisheddy]

It definitely sounds as if you are being bullied by your supervisor. Maybe it is beloved or he resents you for being here. Whatever the reason it is not permitted by law. In 2005 laws were passed protecting employees from this kind of behaviour.

All bullies are cowards. they pick on what they consider to be easy targets. Because you are non Irish and isolated, he probably considers you to be defenceless. However there is help available.

Firstly what you must do is document every single episode of bullying and harassment. It helps that you have witnesses who have spoken up for you when you were accused in the wrong. remember to mention them. Also the fact that your supervisor rang you at home. There will be a record of that on your phone bill.

Secondly it is important that you do not retaliate aggressively to provocation. Ring the various organisation out there such as the Irish Immigration Council, Free legal Advice centres, samaritans, etc.

I would not be surprised if you either end up being constructively dismissed by leaving yourself or being unfairly dismissed, but you should anticipate this and prepare a dossier of facts and events. You will still have the right to claim unfair dismissal and bring them to a tribunal.

Remember there is help available. You are not on your own.

[En-Xtremis]

Hello and thank you everyone for the advice.

I have another meeting with my supervisors boss Tuesday to discuss all of this. I don't care if he doesn't like it... My company doesn't have an HR department and his supervisor is the closest thing I have. I agree that this is probably going to end up with me leaving one way or another if for nothing else to bring some peace to the department. I am trying to borrow money from some friends of my at the moment to go ahead and get my new work permit paper work sent off so I can just get out of there. I hate to file a suite or anything like that...because I have so many friends at the company and the owner and the general manager have been nothing but nice to me. It is just this one jerk that is giving me problems. Honestly...I would rather just get out and not stir the pot.... I was just hoping that there might be someway considering the circumstances... that I wasn't happy at my job, that I could just get another job with my current permit. Guess it isn't that easy.

And sorry for my lateness in responding. When this topic was moved... it stopped updating the new posts for some reason... I didn't see the new posts until I came to the forum it was moved too.

[savy]

Hope this might help someone

Policy for 5 year workers and redundant workers

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Po ... %20workers


INIS set out detailed arrangements which would apply in cases of persons who had worked for 5 years or more with work permits and of persons who were made redundant.

This is a consolidated set of arrangements and replaces all previous versions for non-EEA migrant workers (i) who have been employed for 5 or more years with a work permit and (ii) for those who are made redundant.

[kenfrapin]

Hello and thank you everyone for the advice.

I have another meeting with my supervisors boss Tuesday to discuss all of this. I don't care if he doesn't like it... My company doesn't have an HR department and his supervisor is the closest thing I have. I agree that this is probably going to end up with me leaving one way or another if for nothing else to bring some peace to the department. I am trying to borrow money from some friends of my at the moment to go ahead and get my new work permit paper work sent off so I can just get out of there. I hate to file a suite or anything like that...because I have so many friends at the company and the owner and the general manager have been nothing but nice to me. It is just this one jerk that is giving me problems. Honestly...I would rather just get out and not stir the pot.... I was just hoping that there might be someway considering the circumstances... that I wasn't happy at my job, that I could just get another job with my current permit. Guess it isn't that easy.

And sorry for my lateness in responding. When this topic was moved... it stopped updating the new posts for some reason... I didn't see the new posts until I came to the forum it was moved too.

While its true raising a legal case and getting into the tick of formal complaints etc is really not easy, you need to keep a few things in mind

1. You are not nor ever been at fault for this issue escalating so much. This needs to be clear to all at the company. You say you are in good terms with the owner and GM so let them know of your plight and the efforts you are making
2. If you have really decided to leave without any noise even though you are right, be sure not to leave without letting those around you know what has happened. You will not only help highlight the problem to senior management but also ensure this person doesnt exploit another employee again.
3. When you complain now or when you decide to let everyone know as you leave, be very formal, politically correct and unemotional. Give a clear view of what has progressed over the last few months, what has transgressed since then and finally, why you have decided its the best to move on. Remember, one day this company or someone from here may meet you elsewhere and may want to hire you again. This is a very small world so dont leave without letting everyone know WHY. Of course dont include the whole world in it, just a select few who are close and important to you

Finally, this is my personal opinion, but the world is like this. If you dont stop, stand up for yourself and fight back now then you will do this again when a similar issue happens elsewhere. One day or the other you have to stand up and fight for your respect - and as you already have thoughts of leaving - there is no harm in fighting the right way, fighting professionally and without emotions getting the better of you. For your sake, I dont want you to leave and that guy having the last laugh as he keeps his eyes out for the next person to get his hands on. Something is clearly not right with that chap and you should, at the bare minimum, expose him to all concerned before you leave - that will give you some sort of a closure and help you move on to better things in life

All the best
KP