Zambrano Approvals

[jane jackson]

Any recent approvals/updates from INIS on the Zambrano residency issuance? The week has been quiet on this.

I hope INIS is still rolling out approval letters. Please share

[ImmigrationLawyer]

Yes they are, I got 2 this week.

[jane jackson]

Thanks for the info immigration lawyer. The case is for an undocumented immigrant, i just hope they are attending to that too as i have the feeling they are treating mostly those who have record in the system.

[ImmigrationLawyer]

no I don't think so, one of my approvals was totally uindocumented and didn't have a 69 number. They did ask though for a letter from him explaining why he had been undocumented for so long. Maybe you should explain that.

[jane jackson]

ok will wait and expect from inis
additiona requested docs ve been submitted
thanks

[riseen]

On 8 March 2011 the European Court of Justice (ECJ) ruled in the Zambrano case C 34/09, that an EU member state may not refuse the non-EU parents of a dependent child who is a citizen of, and resident in, an EU member state the right to live and work in that member state.

The Department of Justice and Equality is reviewing the cases of non-EEA parents of Irish citizen minor children which may meet the criteria specified in the Zambrano case. If they meet the Zambrano criteria, the non-EEA parents may be given permission to live and work in Ireland without the requirement for an employment permit or business permission.

Non-EEA nationals with a stamp 2 or stamp 3 permission to remain in Ireland who think they meet the criteria specified in the Zambrano case can apply at their local Garda registration office. They should bring documents such as birth certificates and proof of residency with them. If they meet the criteria, their immigration status may be changed to a stamp 4 permission which will allow them to live and work in Ireland without the need for an employment permit. If the immigration officer refuses to change their status to a stamp 4, the non-EEA national should write to the Repatriation Division of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service as described below.

A non-EEA national who does not have a current permission to remain in Ireland and who wishes to request a review of their case under the terms of the Zambrano judgement should write to the Repatriation Division, Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service, Department of Justice and Equality, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2 and include the following documents:

A colour copy of the bio-data page of the Irish citizen child’s passport (the page with personal details and photo)

· The Irish citizen child’s original birth certificate – a copy is not acceptable.

· A colour copy of the bio-data page of the applicant’s own passport.

· Two colour passport-sized photographs, signed on the back by the applicant.

· A copy of the applicant’s current GNIB certificate of registration (if applicable)

· Documentary evidence that the Irish citizen child is living in the State.

· Proof of the applicant’s address and residence in Ireland (e.g. current utility bills etc).

· Documentary evidence of the role the applicant is playing in his/her child’s life (e.g. letters from schools, crèches, etc).

· Any other information that the applicant considers relevant to his/her case.

In addition, an applicant must provide answers to the following questions:

· Has he/she ever been convicted of a criminal offence in the State or abroad? If so, he/she must provide specific details.

· Are there any charges pending against him/her in the State or abroad? If so, he/she must provide details.

In some cases, DNA evidence of a biological link to the Irish citizen child or children may also be required. Once a decision has been made, that decision and the consequences of the decision will be notified in writing to the persons concerned.

Parents of Irish citizen children who were previously removed from the State by deportation order, and who wish to now re-enter the State to reside with their Irish citizen child or children, may now seek a revocation of that deportation order. Those subject to deportation orders should apply in writing to the Repatriation Division of INIS as set out above, specifying their desire to have the deportation order lifted to enable them to re-enter the State.

Those parents of Irish citizen children who reside outside of Ireland but were never deported from the State now have the option of entering the State to reside and work. If they are visa required, they must apply online for a visa – check our document on visa requirements for entering Ireland.

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[joshi]

i wonder how many staff they have in that department ,thak takes it that long to sort out this issue

[ImmigrationLawyer]

I heard that they have now received 1000 apps and processed about 200 so far. not sure how many staff they have. They have dedicated a section of repatriation to dealing with it, and brought in more staff from other sections. I heard that people at the Subsidiary protection/ s.3 stage are taking a bit longer, as they are still gonna issue decisions on SP applications.

[joshi]

what about the those in court no news yet

[ImmigrationLawyer]

Nothing, which is very unfair. others in identical situations with no court case are getting a quicker result. Apparently they have had meetings but no decision yet. Some ppl outside the state are lodging visa apps.

[joshi]

still no news yet on the people in court ,it takes so long for the court to still respond

[PIKKA]

One of our Friend has got LTR last year he has an Irish Born Child and his wife has stamp 3. He is unemployed at present and doing a Fas course. Last month when his wife went to Garda Station for stamp 4 they refused to do so by saying that her husband is not working so she cannot do anything. They made an application to the Department and the department send them a letter saying that she can go to Garda Station and have Stamp 4. But the immigration officer said that you have the letter but when department will send her the same letter then she will give her the stamp. Now its been Three Weeks and they are still waiting. Another great example of their intelligence.

[Ayan]

Immigration lawyer, I have two EU national children but not Irish nationals.
Is it possible to get residency on behalf of EU children in Ireland.
My Solicitors, (Brophy) sent an application which was refused and the department said Zambrano only applies to the parent of Irish citizen children in Ireland.
Now my Solicitors wants to challenge that decisions in the High Court, So what is your suggestion?I should go ahead for this or its just a waste of time and money??


Thanks in advance for your reply.

[ImmigrationLawyer]

PIKKA,you should write to the Repatriation Section and explain the problem, giving the details - date, name of the immigration officer etc. Do you live in Dublin? Maybe the CIC would help you, or an NGO if you don't have a solicitor.

[PIKKA]

PIKKA,you should write to the Repatriation Section and explain the problem, giving the details - date, name of the immigration officer etc. Do you live in Dublin? Maybe the CIC would help you, or an NGO if you don't have a solicitor.

Thanks for your advise, I would definitely ask my friend if he wants to seek CIC, NGO or Solicitor's Help.

[Morrisj]

@ Ayan
To be honest with u, am really astonished!why would Brophy Solicitors do such thing in d first place,I mean sending in an application regarding ur case under Zambrano instead of using Chen which suits ur case better?YES ITS WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME INFACT THE RISK OF PAYING COST AFTER LOOSING D CASE.have u paid any money to them before?cos sincerely speaking am now having doubts about this BS SOLICITORS 4REAL

[Ayan]

@ Ayan
To be honest with u, am really astonished!why would Brophy Solicitors do such thing in d first place,I mean sending in an application regarding ur case under Zambrano instead of using Chen which suits ur case better?YES ITS WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME INFACT THE RISK OF PAYING COST AFTER LOOSING D CASE.have u paid any money to them before?cos sincerely speaking am now having doubts about this BS SOLICITORS 4REAL

Hi Morrisj,

Thanks for ur reply.
yes I paid them the stamp duties etc and I have to pay 1000 euros more.
Bropphy's said that I have very strong case and They are very hopeful about this.
The only concern is that the Judge might say that we should consult ECJ for the clarification on this case which will take more time.
Lets see what will happen, she says that DOJ is wrong as they treat Irish citizen and other EU children in different ways. Zambrano applies to all EU citizen children in all Europe( I hope she is not wrong).
So hope for the best

[Monifé]

@ Ayan
To be honest with u, am really astonished!why would Brophy Solicitors do such thing in d first place,I mean sending in an application regarding ur case under Zambrano instead of using Chen which suits ur case better?YES ITS WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME INFACT THE RISK OF PAYING COST AFTER LOOSING D CASE.have u paid any money to them before?cos sincerely speaking am now having doubts about this BS SOLICITORS 4REAL

Hi Morrisj,

Thanks for ur reply.
yes I paid them the stamp duties etc and I have to pay 1000 euros more.
Bropphy's said that I have very strong case and They are very hopeful about this.
The only concern is that the Judge might say that we should consult ECJ for the clarification on this case which will take more time.
Lets see what will happen, she says that DOJ is wrong as they treat Irish citizen and other EU children in different ways. Zambrano applies to all EU citizen children in all Europe( I hope she is not wrong).
So hope for the best

Ayan, I would strongly advise you not to enter High Court Judicial Review proceedings. Our solicitors are Brophy and when my partners EU1 residence card was refused they advised us to enter proceedings, we paid the stamp duties and 1000euro and then recently we had to withdraw our proceedings, even though they said we had a strong case, they said it would probably merit a reference to the ECJ, this can take anything between 2 and 5 years because it has to go through the Supreme Court. We didnt want to wait that long so withdrew the proceedings and now have a court cost order against us for about 15,000euro.

[walrusgumble]

@ Ayan
To be honest with u, am really astonished!why would Brophy Solicitors do such thing in d first place,I mean sending in an application regarding ur case under Zambrano instead of using Chen which suits ur case better?YES ITS WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME INFACT THE RISK OF PAYING COST AFTER LOOSING D CASE.have u paid any money to them before?cos sincerely speaking am now having doubts about this BS SOLICITORS 4REAL

Hi Morrisj,

Thanks for ur reply.
yes I paid them the stamp duties etc and I have to pay 1000 euros more.
Bropphy's said that I have very strong case and They are very hopeful about this.
The only concern is that the Judge might say that we should consult ECJ for the clarification on this case which will take more time.
Lets see what will happen, she says that DOJ is wrong as they treat Irish citizen and other EU children in different ways. Zambrano applies to all EU citizen children in all Europe( I hope she is not wrong).
So hope for the best

I am afraid, she is wrong. Zambrano only deals with a child (EU Citizen) born in that particular State (making some indirect in roads in reverse discrimination.) Neither the AG or court made any such announcement as that solicitor suggests, and specificially dealt with citizens born in that country. and does not give unqualified right to live anywhere else in Europe. Chen (or if possible Article 12 of Regulation 1216/68 - Texieria and Baumbaust etc) is applied for other situations. BUT, it would be worth a punt to challenge on the new ideas from Zambrano. Zambrano itself, is kind of limited by McCarthy.

Treating people in different ways, wow , people are finally waking up. And to think I got criticised for raising the issue in previous posts. The reason people are treated in a different manner is because they must exercise their EU treaty rights. If you don't, EU law is not applicable.EU seems to treat children more favourably than adults, just one could argue discrimination of age and or family status. (ie adults would not have absolute right to live all over EU unless they meet conditions set out in treaty and things like Directive 2004/28EC)

[ImmigrationLawyer]

It is a risky case. It just depends on whether it is worth the risk to you. All litigation carries risks.

[Ayan]

It is a risky case. It just depends on whether it is worth the risk to you. All litigation carries risks.

Hi All,
Thanks for your concerns and quick replies, But I have already signed all the documents and my solicitor already submit all documents to the High Court.
I am concerned and confused as well but unfortunately, for last few years I had so many problems which might cause me to take this decision and to believe the solicitor. so fingers crossed....

My both sons were born in Ireland. But they are Latvian citizens not Irish. Does it make any difference to be born in the host member state??

[leonex4t5]

i think you should withdraw the case because the judgement gives right to citizens of the union in their country of nationality, the chen rule gives provision for your case. article 20 can be argued in court in your case. zambrano judgement is strictly for EU citizens in the country of national.

Article 20 TFEU is to be interpreted as meaning that it precludes a Member State from refusing a third country national upon whom his minor children, who are European Union citizens, are dependent, a right of residence in the Member State of residence and nationality of those children, and from refusing to grant a work permit to that third country national, in so far as such decisions deprive those children of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights attaching to the status of European Union citizen

the right of residence can only be gotten in the country of nationality of the Minor EU citizen.

SO i think getting this refered to the ECJ would mean you will be waiting for about 2-5yrs, only benefits your solicitors but not you.

[Ayan]

This is the letter which my solicitor sent to DOJ on my behalf in May 2011


Dear Sirs,
We refer to the above matter and the decision of Mr Z to refuse
Mr M permission to remain in the State.
We confirm that we wish to appeal this decision on behalf of Mr M. We request
that the following submissions are considered by a Superior Officer to Mr
Z.
APPEAL SUBMISSIONS
We would firstly point out that the deciding officer has indicated that Mr M’s
application for a Residence Card under Regulation 7 (1) cannot be accepted on the
ground that application for a residence card cannot be based on an EU citizen Minor.
We confirm that we do not take issue with this statement in the circumstances of this
case, and we confirm that we do not wish to pursue an application for a residence card
pursuant to the Free Movement Regulations.
We would highlight that our application in respect of Mr M is for permission to
remain in the State on the basis of Ishan's EU Treaty Rights arising
directly from the Treaty of the Functioning of the European Union. Thus, this is
an application based on general EU Treaty Rights, and outside the specific remit of
Directive 2004/38 and the Free Movement Regulations.
We note that the deciding officer has refused to accept Mr M’s application solely
on the basis that he was found the application to be outside of the Directive. However,
the Deciding Officer failed to address our submissions that Mr M’s entitlement
for permission to remain stem directly from the Treaty.
In support of our argument as to Mr M’s rights to permission to remain, we relied
on the cases of Zhu and Chen v. Secretary of State for the Home Department and Ruiz
Zambrano v Office National De L'Emploi
We note that Deciding Officer had made no reference to the Chen case in his decision
letter. This case is very relevant to Mr Mr’s application, as the Court of Justice’s
determination in Chen finds that Article 18 of the EC Treaty and Directive 90/364
grants a right to a young child to reside for an indefinite period in the host Member
State, those provisions must allow a parent who is that minor’s ‘primary carer’ to
reside with the child in the host Member State. We say that Mr M is a primary
carer to his son, and thus Minister must grant permission to reside to Mr M
following the Court of Justice’s reasoning in Chen.
We note that the Deciding Officer has stated in response to our submission relating to
Zambrano that “Zamrbano only relates to cases where the child on which the
individual is seeking to rely on is an Irish citizenâ€

[Morrisj]

Ayan i kindly advise u to disregard further payment.Here is a secret,if Bs solicitors r sure of getting a positive outcome from ur case,they won't ask for d 1000,they will rather pursue the cost(up to 10 grand or more), DOJ would be paying to them if u win the case(use ur wisdom dude,or u gat none?)Its like their policy of ripping ppl is stamp duties and 1000 euros,thats ridiculous.Monife sry to hear ur experience,wow 15k and still didnt get ur case thru,i understand how hard it will be 4 u now.

[fatty patty]

It is a risky case. It just depends on whether it is worth the risk to you. All litigation carries risks.

Hi All,
Thanks for your concerns and quick replies, But I have already signed all the documents and my solicitor already submit all documents to the High Court.
I am concerned and confused as well but unfortunately, for last few years I had so many problems which might cause me to take this decision and to believe the solicitor. so fingers crossed....

My both sons were born in Ireland. But they are Latvian citizens not Irish. Does it make any difference to be born in the host member state??

How long is the Latvian parent living in Ireland? If it is more than 5 years the children will qualify for Irish citizenship hence Zambrano ruling to take effect properly in your case. Why don't you apply through EU Treaty rights via spouse instead of relying on children. Be careful with the JR it will bite you back if you loose and by the looks of it you have a weak case imo.