Consultation on changes to employment-related settlement

[Bijuk]

The new consultation of Tier1 is not aaplicable for Tier1 general- The consultation is for Tier1 exceptional talent / investors etc who are in the system.

[pswtotier2]

Hi pswtotier2

from what I have gathered until now, people on PSW moving on to Tier 2 will be affected by these rules.

Sorry to be a bearer of bad news, but seems like that's what is going to be. UNLESS PSW to Tier 2 switchers are given a special allowance, which I doubt.

We are one of those who will be affected as well.

Remember though, current psw holders (or any other tier holders) were categorised under "unrestricted" category. So, there is still a room for them to KEEP this logic going and only enforce it, whether retrospectively or not, to those who ENTERED UK from April 2011 onwards!

All the replies you are seeing here is based on the individual's interpretations of the words used in press release (and a report) and no way reflects (for sure) to WHAT guys at UKBA /govt. is thinking!

Don't stop Believing...

thanks a lot guys.Lets Say, PSW fall in to this 'BAN' what will happen to those who are in the Tier1 and will change to Tier2 after April 2011????

[bash]

i guess they will be effected:(,under the new tier 2 rule but no settlement:(

[bash]

guys,
wht in case they(uk government) wont allow tier 1 general visa holders to settle in UK after 5years ,i mean wht will be our future,we will just be stuck up:(.
ITS SOO UNFAIR:(

[Aryan2013]

If you think, you are treated Unfairly, fight for fairness.

Raise your voice and demand fair treatment.

[Aryan2013]

I would really appreciate if you could let me know that if I am going to be affected with the new changes to tier 2 routes. I have granted the tier 2 general visa in May 2009 and now I am willing to change the employer, does this affect my illegibility of permanent residence in future.

why don't you read the rest of this thread - you will see that various people have highlighted the fact that the changes on settlement apply to those who entered tiers 1 and 2 from April 2011.

In addition - this is a consultation - no one knows what the changes will be yet, so no one can advise you. Speculation doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I agree with Greenie but I think the document gives more or less a direction where this govt. is going with immigration policy.

[Aryan2013]

"For those who care only about reducing net migration, trying to make all economic immigration temporary makes sense. But for anyone who cares about Britain’s ability to continue to attract the ‘brightest and best,’ about the impact on the economy as we try to grow our way out of recession, and about the impact on social cohesion, these proposals raise real concerns."

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2011/ ... -he-right/

[bagofdoorknobs]

What crackheaded dimwit in Whitehall thinks that this is going to do anything but blow up in their faces? Oh wait, the same idiots who are driving the UK into the ground.

No-one is going to bother setting up an innovative IT business, bring their research money or the like to the UK if all of a sudden, at the 5-year mark, you gotta be out of the country. More importantly, to those locals who would set up their enterprises, etc, you're going to be in a global backwater. Why not be someplace (else) where you can get the talent and exposure to take your company into the big leagues?

Yes, I may have a successful business with a turnover in the millions, but, whoops, I can't enter Britain anymore. There goes my business, guess that I better relocate it and fire everyone. Of course, if I was an illiterate Hungarian goatherder, hey, that's OK!

So, don't bother with the country in the first place. It's a losing bet with no upside.

[GSOtodd]

Well really, I think it is too easy to get into the US. However, I do agree with their path to settlement. People are hired via greencard which are subjected to resident labour market test or, they get a temporary visa and hopefully, transfer it to a green card if they beat the cap system on green cards. Why not do the same here in Britain? Or, just cap the number coming in and that is it.

[bash]

hey guys,
After the new consultation news,no one is clear about the things.i mean the media is so -ve about immigration.ukba is not talking straight about existing T1G either,nor the consultation report is clear,cause they mention T2 to be temporary and also think whether Existing TIG holders should also nt exists after 5years.
i mean who have cm be4 april 2011 are stuck,wht abt our extension in 2012 will we be allowed to even extend our visa for the next 2 or 3yrs be4 ILR?
people here are giving soo many views without any really clear idea.
Nor are there any moderators with some clear advice.what will happen to all the existing T1 G people at the end of the this:( ?

[tier_Graduate]

Guys I have analysed the document... your views needed.

1.The words from page 6, "Annual limit of 20,700 visas (in-country applications exempted)."

2.The words from the page 19, "A limit could be set as a
proportion of those entering under the pre-entry limit (for example the pre-entry limit for Tier 2(General) in 2011/12 is 20,700)".
Combine 1. and 2. - So this clearly applies to those who enter the UK under those 20,700 visas since April 2011 under tier 2 only.

Agree/Disagree??

3. They are talking about Tier 2 150k salary people only to enable for an automatic route for ILR with no hassle.

4. Questions 9 and 10 in doc, They are asking for proportions (25% or 50% or 75% of the 20700). So it means even if it will be 25%, it works out to 5175 visas, compared to 10000 levels in 1997.

A highly skilled tier 1 guys showed earnings of 25k on the average all these years. So this means the Home office considers a person with 25k sal as highly skilled and granted him/her tier 1 visa.

So, say for example, a Tier 2 guy with highly specialized skill and job with a salary of 50K - 55k+, Higher quali degree and english knowledge and economic contribution will easily satisfy their requirement and provided we should apply early April/May.

If Tier 2 will be completely closed, then why do they even want to make a proposal to create a special category for tier 2 for people to jump into. like Settlement Mechanism and Settlement Criteria blah blah blah.. So if salary of 150k only will be allowed to settle then why such process is needed..

Agree/Disagree??

So lets wait for the outcome and plan for many IF OR ELSE. You got plenty of time.

Cheers

[bash]

hey guys,
After the new consultation news,no one is clear about the things.i mean the media is so -ve about immigration.ukba is not talking straight about existing T1G either,nor the consultation report is clear,cause they mention T2 to be temporary and also think whether Existing TIG holders should also nt exists after 5years.
i mean who have cm be4 april 2011 are stuck,wht abt our extension in 2012 will we be allowed to even extend our visa for the next 2 or 3yrs be4 ILR?
people here are giving soo many views without any really clear idea.
Nor are there any moderators with some clear advice.what will happen to all the existing T1 G people at the end of the this:( ?

[Tier1_ILR_Applicant]

hey guys,
After the new consultation news,no one is clear about the things.i mean the media is so -ve about immigration.ukba is not talking straight about existing T1G either,nor the consultation report is clear,cause they mention T2 to be temporary and also think whether Existing TIG holders should also nt exists after 5years.
i mean who have cm be4 april 2011 are stuck,wht abt our extension in 2012 will we be allowed to even extend our visa for the next 2 or 3yrs be4 ILR?
people here are giving soo many views without any really clear idea.
Nor are there any moderators with some clear advice.what will happen to all the existing T1 G people at the end of the this:( ?

Tier 1 General has been de-scoped from this consultation probably because one it is now close anyway!!! second the government already changed the ILR requirements for tier 1 General on 6th of April 2011. I just don't get why are people even talking about how the consultation will affect tier 1 general?

[Celtic]

For the love of God, tier 1 general holders are exempted from any proposed changes in consultation.

[Sheffield_Marketeer]

Hi

Many thanks for making an attempt to analyse the document. However, I am as clueless as before. I am just waiting got the final guidance to be published after the consultation closes.

If your estimate that the new rules will apply to ONLY those who fall within the 20, 700 limit stands correct, then ALL incountry applications like extensions in the UK, PSW moving to Tier 2 and a few others will be safe and exempt, which will be GREAT news for most people. I'd say that if this was indeed the case, then UKBA would have given advance warning to the new people arriving, which I'd say is fir enough.

Guys I have analysed the document... your views needed.

1.The words from page 6, "Annual limit of 20,700 visas (in-country applications exempted)."

2.The words from the page 19, "A limit could be set as a
proportion of those entering under the pre-entry limit (for example the pre-entry limit for Tier 2(General) in 2011/12 is 20,700)".
Combine 1. and 2. - So this clearly applies to those who enter the UK under those 20,700 visas since April 2011 under tier 2 only.

Agree/Disagree??

3. They are talking about Tier 2 150k salary people only to enable for an automatic route for ILR with no hassle.

4. Questions 9 and 10 in doc, They are asking for proportions (25% or 50% or 75% of the 20700). So it means even if it will be 25%, it works out to 5175 visas, compared to 10000 levels in 1997.

A highly skilled tier 1 guys showed earnings of 25k on the average all these years. So this means the Home office considers a person with 25k sal as highly skilled and granted him/her tier 1 visa.

So, say for example, a Tier 2 guy with highly specialized skill and job with a salary of 50K - 55k+, Higher quali degree and english knowledge and economic contribution will easily satisfy their requirement and provided we should apply early April/May.

If Tier 2 will be completely closed, then why do they even want to make a proposal to create a special category for tier 2 for people to jump into. like Settlement Mechanism and Settlement Criteria blah blah blah.. So if salary of 150k only will be allowed to settle then why such process is needed..

Agree/Disagree??

So lets wait for the outcome and plan for many IF OR ELSE. You got plenty of time.

Cheers

[rbk1597]

I have read through all the above posts. I wish to raise the point for work permit holders (those with 5 years work permit visa) who are due ILR later this year. Some of them have gaps in their visa between EC and date of entry which is more than 3 months (so they cannot apply for ILR under recently published Immigration Directorate).

In their case, they will have to apply for an extension later this year, which will mean changing their status from work permit holder to Tier 2 PBS migrant.

In the light of the consultation on settlement, can they come under the new rules which says those entering PBS after Apr 2011 will not be eligible for settlement? This, assuming the extension is not possible until late this year or after the rules are published.

Views from senior members will be welcome, as always.

I have analysed this particular situation.
My take is that if you "extend your work permit" by "switching" into Tier 2 (transitional arrangements A) then you will be eligible for ILR.
Howeever if you cahnge your employer and submit a new Tier 2 (general) application, then you may lose your ILR eligibility.
This may not come out to be the case, but as an experienced somebody in immigration circles, I can tell you that it would be a very small number of people in this scenario (i.e. WP holders from Jan 2007 - Dec 2008 who will need to extend to reach 5yrs)
So with that in mind, I believe there is a strong case especially considering the rules that were there when the initial WP was granted.

Like I said it may not come out to be the case, but itys omething that can be successfully contested in the courts of law.

[Celtic]

If your estimate that the new rules will apply to ONLY those who fall within the 20, 700 limit stands correct, then ALL incountry applications like extensions in the UK, PSW moving to Tier 2 and a few others will be safe and exempt, which will be GREAT news for most people. I'd say that if this was indeed the case, then UKBA would have given advance warning to the new people arriving, which I'd say is fir enough.

PSW holders have never commanded any consideration from UKBA and your thinking is just wishful. All psw holders will be affected by the proposed changes, you can count on it.

When I graduated and obtained psw, I only needed 20k to switch to tier 1. But in March 2010, government changed the salary criteria for tier 1 which required me to have salary of minimum 30k. All these changes were implemented within a span of 2 weeks. So go figure.

Then in July, government raised the points threshold which required psw holder with bachelors degree to have a minimum salary of 40k to qualify for a switch to tier 1.

So as you can see all changes were applied to PSW holders retrospectively and goal posts were changed twice within a span of 6 months.

Those on tier 1 general already however were spared from any changes and were only needed to meet the minimum criteria at the time of initial applications to qualify for further extension.

[timarli]

I have read through all the above posts. I wish to raise the point for work permit holders (those with 5 years work permit visa) who are due ILR later this year. Some of them have gaps in their visa between EC and date of entry which is more than 3 months (so they cannot apply for ILR under recently published Immigration Directorate).

In their case, they will have to apply for an extension later this year, which will mean changing their status from work permit holder to Tier 2 PBS migrant.

In the light of the consultation on settlement, can they come under the new rules which says those entering PBS after Apr 2011 will not be eligible for settlement? This, assuming the extension is not possible until late this year or after the rules are published.

Views from senior members will be welcome, as always.

I have analysed this particular situation.
My take is that if you "extend your work permit" by "switching" into Tier 2 (transitional arrangements A) then you will be eligible for ILR.
Howeever if you cahnge your employer and submit a new Tier 2 (general) application, then you may lose your ILR eligibility.
This may not come out to be the case, but as an experienced somebody in immigration circles, I can tell you that it would be a very small number of people in this scenario (i.e. WP holders from Jan 2007 - Dec 2008 who will need to extend to reach 5yrs)
So with that in mind, I believe there is a strong case especially considering the rules that were there when the initial WP was granted.

Like I said it may not come out to be the case, but itys omething that can be successfully contested in the courts of law.

That's what I was wondering.

I entered in 2008 under WP. When I entered the UK of course I made long term plans. It's not an easy decision to leave everything behind you, your work etc. And of course I came here looking at the rules, planning my future etc.

And the rules said: I can apply for ILR after 5 years lawful employment and I can change employers provided that the legal procedure followed.

Aren't these two 'GIVEN RIGHTS' ? Although it's not one of the developed countries, in my home country you CAN NOT give a person some rights and TAKE IT BACK.

I mean if they say: 'No if you change your employer you will loose your right to settle', Is it something that can be challenged or...If it passes, it passes. The end?


FFS why would I leave my friends, family etc for being a temporary worker???? If I was going to be temporary I could easily go to Middle East and at least earn some money!
I already had a decent job and a small but nice social env. Just because of some personal problems I made this big move and I bloody regret it now because of all these UNCERTAINITY and the f.stress it's causing...

Seriously please let me know what do you think about the legality of these stuff, if you think it can be challenged or not.

[Sheffield_Marketeer]

Hi friends

May I suggest one thing to every body - please do not panic and try to be patient. This is still at consultation stage and although it is likely that this will soon become law, but there are many loose ends that the guidance will spell out which arent very clear at this stage.

Couple of constructive things that we can do:

1. Respond to the Consulation (which I plan to do in July, am a bit busy this month)

2. Start planning for the future (hope for the BEST but be prepared to EXPECT the worst)

This is my strategy for now, as no amount of speculation can help clear things.

[Aryan2013]

I will say a pragmatic and well thought strategy.

Also, try to form a group and represent yourself collectively, if possible.

Facebook may be a good place to start and try to fight for fairness, not just for your own cause.

[GSOtodd]

Also, bear in mind that chances are high that the outcome won't be as severe as it sounds. The cap system wasn't and at first, everyone was making a big deal about it. The consultation gives more than one option about settlement so it isn't like there will be no settlement.

[puneetdwd]

Due to this Consultation from HomeOffice there are confusion among Employer to hire a Tier1 Holder

Just wanted to share with you my recent experience in Job search as I am looking to change my current position. I applied for number of vacancies thru job portals and when asked I told them that I have Tier1 Visa I got the following responses
I just wanted to check is this an instruction from HomeOffice? If this is the situation the future of Tier1 holder is Dark.

It is with regret that I have to inform you my client can no longer employ people on a High Skill Tier 1 Work visa on a permanent basis due to the lack of guarantee’s now in place with regards to permanent residency.
Kind Regards

Hayden Male

Another example:-

1. Do you require a work permit? I mention this as my client will not look at candidates on a Tier1 or HSMP etc?
David W. Broster
Recruitment Divisio

n[/b][/i]

[bash]

puneet,
this is just too bad,i mean wht next for tier 1 holders??
ukba should come out straight about the position of the existing tier 1 general visa holders.
what do we do next,should we leave our jobs and goto our home countries?
In the consultation it is no where mentioned abt the Tier 1 general category.
then why the employers soo confused about?
this is bad on the part of the UK government:(

[puneetdwd]

I agree. The future is so uncertain, Can we collectively response to HomeOffice on this Consulation and also inform them that this is causing confusion among employer to hire Tier 1 holder?

What does other members of the board think?
Please let me know

Many Thanks.

[navodwickra]

Due to this Consultation from HomeOffice there are confusion among Employer to hire a Tier1 Holder

Just wanted to share with you my recent experience in Job search as I am looking to change my current position. I applied for number of vacancies thru job portals and when asked I told them that I have Tier1 Visa I got the following responses
I just wanted to check is this an instruction from HomeOffice? If this is the situation the future of Tier1 holder is Dark.

It is with regret that I have to inform you my client can no longer employ people on a High Skill Tier 1 Work visa on a permanent basis due to the lack of guarantee’s now in place with regards to permanent residency.
Kind Regards

Hayden Male

Another example:-

1. Do you require a work permit? I mention this as my client will not look at candidates on a Tier1 or HSMP etc?
David W. Broster
Recruitment Divisio

n[/b][/i]

well all I have to say is either they got misunderstood Tier1 General with PSW or they didnt read the last report from Home Office properly. Either case you can talk to them and ask them to contach Homeoffice for further clarification.