rc processing time

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:49 pm

Hi All,

My husband and I had an agency which we paid for to help us with the application. They told us that it would only take 6-8weeks. Is this possible or are they just pulling my leg? anyone else here has the same experience with immigration agencies? I dont want to contact HO since they made it clear in the COA its would just delay the process and I'm getting really worried as I need it to follow my husband who has now been reassigned to Amsterdam.
Here's my timeline:
Applied:11/4/2011
COA: 3/5/2011
nothing yet

Post by **Jambo** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:22 pm

No experience here with agencies. EEA applications are free and quite straight forward (in most cases) so easy to apply directly.

It usually takes 3-4 months. You can always ask for your passport back if you need to travel. If your partner left the UK and is not exercising treaty rights in the UK, then you will not be qualify for a RC under EU regulations.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:53 pm

Out of curiosity, how much did you pay the agency for their help? The times they gave you sound odd...

What is the citizenship of the EU citizen and the non-EU citizen? When are you planning to move to the Netherlands?

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:00 pm

Thank you for the replies. My husband is french and I'm filipino. We didnt know we were about to move until weve finished the documents and sent it. The documents we've presented still points out that he still resides and work here. He's already there in Amsterdam since June. We we're expecting to have the RC by that time since they told us that it would only takes 6-8 weeks. We paid around Â£700 for it. My husband wanted it done as swift and accurate as possible and as they 'guaranteed' the those were the time frame we agreed to it. He's EU so does that mean 3-4 months or 6 months normally?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:05 pm

I would suggest you request the documents back from UKBA. Then you have your passport.

Are you and your husband planning to stay partly in the UK, or are you planning to move fully together to the Netherlands? If moving to the Netherlands, what is keeping you still in the UK?

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:34 pm

I'm just waiting for the residence card and as soon as I have it I will travel to Amsterdam right away. Whats keeping me here is that my student visa expired whilst in the Home Office for processing of RC. They said its ok as long as its there already before it expired but I can not travel to Amsterdam with an expired visa. Even for a schen gen it needs atleast 3 months of visa validity before date of travel. We are planning to stay in NL as we already have a place there. Its just the right to go there that we need. Its very frustrating as its the only thing we need and I think that the agency we depended on just scammed us.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:02 pm

epouse wrote:I'm just waiting for the residence card and as soon as I have it I will travel to Amsterdam right away.
They said its ok as long as its there already before it expired but I can not travel to Amsterdam with an expired visa.
Even for a schengen it needs at least 3 months of visa validity before date of travel.
We are planning to stay in NL as we already have a place there. Its just the right to go there that we need.
Its very frustrating as its the only thing we need and I think that the agency we depended on just scammed us.

I would definitely ask UKBA for your passports back today. I assume they have both yours and your husbands. They will in fact continue processing the Residence Card application even after they return the passports to you, unless you tell them explicitly not to.

But I actually think that you do not need the UK-issued Residence Card. It sounds like you are both moving to the Netherlands, so a UK-issued one will be of no value. And if you ever return to the UK, you can apply again for one. Is there any reason for continuing with the UK Residence Card application? Are you both planning to spend more than half your time in the UK?

As soon as you arrive in the Netherlands, you can immediately apply for a Netherlands-issued Residence Card. (They likely process it a lot quicker).

That leaves only the issue of getting to the Netherlands. Once you get your passport back (see above), you will not have a UK Residence Card and will have an expired Student Visa. You could apply for a Schengen visa, and likely you will go smoothly.

But there is an alternative, which should be comparatively easy because you are so close to the Netherlands. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ See also the whole thread associated with http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 874#503874

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:08 pm

thank you very much for the advice. I only need the rc to enter NL as it says on their website that I must have it to be permitted to gain entrance otherwise, I should get a schen gen, which I cant because my visa has already expired. Yes, you are right, the only issue here is getting there. Can you advice me on the fastest way to legally get there? My visa is expired so I cant apply for schen gen with it. I don't know if they would allow me in the border with only our passports and marriage certificate. We also have our livret de famille so I think we can use that as proof as well.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:08 am

Read the last paragraph of my last post very carefully and read the things linked to.

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:23 am

Ok, I read it carefully. We'll try to get our pASsports back and hopefully when we travel there, there wont be a lot of fuss over it. Thank you very musch for the advice. We'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:53 am

It is really your decision on how to handle it.

I think it kind of sucks to be stuck waiting in the UK for a Residence Card you will never use, while you husband is off exploring the Netherlands.

Traveling without the visa will be a little stressful for you, but if you print out all the details (and a copy of MRAX in French and English), I suspect you will have no problems.

For the most part the Schengen border guards of older European states (France, Germany, Netherlands) seem to know free movement law pretty well and are professional. Spain seems to be not so good, and some of the new EU states are not so good.

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:10 pm

Yeah, it really does suck and not to mention costly as he comes back here every weekend. Also, we pay the rent here as well. I've asked the Home Office for the return of the document and hopefully by the 8th of July we would have it and head straight to Netherlands. Any advice on how we can tackle the border guards? I'm trying to print the legislations we can use also copies of documents that can help us.
Thank you very much for the advice. If everything goes well, you'd have saved us a lot. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:19 pm

You can ask UKBA for all your documentation back: your passport, his passport/ID card, your marriage certificate, ...

You will need both passports and your marriage certificate in order to exercise your free movement rights.

Have either of you taken the cross channel ferry before? Or the Eurotunnel car train? I suspect taking these would make for the easiest trip. The key thing is to give yourself lots of time and be well rested - do not go late Sunday night if your husband has to be at work on Monday morning at 8am. A mid day ferry means you do not have to get up too early and have lots of time to drive to the Netherlands. Have lots of food and water with you and be happy and patient and very patient.

In the end it will, I suspect, likely be a bit of an anti climax. Likely the guards will be well trained and professional and know the law well and will let you in, or there will not even be any guards there, or they can't be bothered to check passports. (I remember having to stop the car once and insist that they give us an entry stamp, which they otherwise could not really be bothered with.)

Have you had a Schengen visa before?

Key law for you to understand is at http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ This also includes relevant extracts of the Schengen Handbook for border guards.

MRAX is key case law, though it has also been included in Directive 2004/38/EC as indicated in the previous link: I would suggest printing it, reading it and understanding it and marking it up with a highlighter pen. Print it in English and (if you are entering France) in French. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/law-ecj-case-law/ is a small guide to reading the ECJ judgements which might be helpful.

I personally tend to think you should also have your husband read and understand all this stuff too, but I tend to think everyone should be over prepared.

Finally I would urge you to carry proof that your French husband has been working in the UK and is presently working in the Netherlands. Pay slips, tax returns, ... You will likely not have to show it to anyone, but it is worth having tucked away.

Remember the border guards are (or should be) your friends. Their job is to facilitate your entry and enable your free movement in the EU.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:15 am

Just for the heck of it, here is a highlighted copy of MRAX

Post by **Obie** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:17 am

Directive, with all due respect, i appreciate your position, and i support it aswell.
However, i give equal weight to the OP's reason for seeking a Residence Card, even though it may seem unnecessary.

Mrax will be very useful if they are able to reach the Dutch border, and there is every possibility she will be allowed in if she got to that position.

The difficulty i have is, how is she going to make it to the border without a visa, as the airlines or coach or train service she will be taking, will not, to the best of my understanding allow her to board without a valid visa, even if she was to provide evidence that she is a family member of an EU national, whom she is joining or accompanying - in violatin of EU law. Airlines are quit famous for their lack of understanding of EU law. They will insist she get a Schengen visa.
With the Residence Card, they will allow her with out any difficulty to travel.

Despite Metock, some embassies are still reluctant to issue visas to family members , regardless of their status as family member, who have no legal status in the country they are applying from, at least on their passport. This is beacuse on the face of things, OP is legally in the UK.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 pm

Obie wrote:Mrax will be very useful if they are able to reach the Dutch border, and there is every possibility she will be allowed in if she got to that position.

Or any border of member state, including Belgium or France.

Obie wrote:The difficulty i have is, how is she going to make it to the border without a visa, as the airlines or coach or train service she will be taking, will not, to the best of my understanding allow her to board without a valid visa, even if she was to provide evidence that she is a family member of an EU national, whom she is joining or accompanying - in violatin of EU law. Airlines are quit famous for their lack of understanding of EU law. They will insist she get a Schengen visa.
With the Residence Card, they will allow her with out any difficulty to travel.

If they were flying I would agree with you and I would not do the trip that way if I were in their situation. This whole discussion assumes they will be taking a ferry or train together.

Both the car ferries from Dover to Calais (http://www.poferries.com/ and http://www.seafrance.com), the Eurotunnel train from Folkstone to Calais (http://www.eurotunnel.com/), and the Eurostar train from London to Belgium or Paris (http://www.eurostar.com/) have dedicated genuine French (and maybe Belgian) border guards located at the point of departure in the UK who are responsible for immigration checking passengers before the get on the ferry or train. The ferry or train company is not responsible for and does not do immigration screening.

I should note, though it is not relevant for this couple, that the same applies in reverse for coming to the UK. There are UKBA immigration officers doing the immigration screening in France and Belgium before you get on the ferry or train. Once you arrive in the UK, there is (generally) no immigration screening.

In fact the French border guards in Dover and Folkstone do not seem to really actively check and you often get the sense that the booth is empty or they are having their "cupa tea"... If there is somebody there, they seem to be happy if you hold up a handful of passports and then they wave you on.

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:22 pm

We will be driving then taking the train. My husband said that there would be a check in Folkstone. Hopefully our documents will suffice. We would have our passports, marriage certificate, livret de famile, birth certificates and the printouts of the legislations. We'll stop over in my in-law's house first in Lille then head to Amsterdam.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:27 pm

epouse wrote:We will be driving then taking the train. My husband said that there would be a check in Folkstone. Hopefully our documents will suffice. We would have our passports, marriage certificate, livret de famile, birth certificates and the printouts of the legislations. We'll stop over in my in-law's house first in Lille then head to Amsterdam.

Sounds lovely!

I really doubt it will come to this, but worst case you can return to London and continue with your original plan of waiting...

Somehow I am jealous that you are moving to the Netherlands. I want to come too!!!!

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:35 pm

I do hope that it goes well. We are a bit terrified of having to go through all of the checks and then them turning us down but atleast we tried. I would be terrific if we get through together.

If you plan to maybe visit Amsterdam maybe you, me and my husband can have coffee there.

Thanks for all the information. We'll keep you posted.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:06 pm

epouse wrote:I do hope that it goes well. We are a bit terrified of having to go through all of the checks and then them turning us down but at least we tried.

I did this with my wife. We did it for "fun", as we did not actually have to travel. Flew to Ireland for the day without the required visa. I was quite nervous, my wife thought there were better things to do in life than this, but I needed her along to try it out.

In the end, we had to wait for 1/2 hour or maybe 45 minutes while our nice immigration officer consulted his nasty supervisor. They let us in, and we took the bus into downtown Dublin for the day. Walked around a lot. Had dinner. Then took the bus back out to the airport and flew home to the UK.

Just relax and breath deeply. Even try to enjoy this pure exercise of your legal right to free movement, as upheld by the highest European court in MRAX.

(I find this so funny, but as I said before most likely there will not even be anyone there from France to bother checking passports. I have never had passports controlled by Schengen border guards in the UK before a ferry or Eurotunnel trip).

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:24 pm

Hello.

My husband is having second thoughts on me going to NL without a visa. Since it is not just a visit and we are planning to live there, the dutch embassy suggested that i wait for the rc, get a visa and then go there. Our main concern here is that even if we go through, i would be staying there without a visa or RC so I won't be able to register in IND and get security # etc. There would be a risk of them deporting me. Can just stay there and wait for the rc card? A friend of mine will have it posted to me as soon as it gets released. My husband is worried about that and fears the legal aspect.
Before we were confident that the RC alone is ok for me to stay there but now when we called the IND they said I needed a visa as well. The original plan is that I go there with the RC and apply for residence permit there.
If you can advise me on this matter, we would be really grateful.

Thanks.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:46 pm

epouse wrote:My husband is having second thoughts on me going to NL without a visa. Since it is not just a visit and we are planning to live there, the dutch embassy suggested that i wait for the rc, get a visa and then go there. Our main concern here is that even if we go through, i would be staying there without a visa or RC so I won't be able to register in IND and get security # etc. There would be a risk of them deporting me. Can just stay there and wait for the rc card? A friend of mine will have it posted to me as soon as it gets released. My husband is worried about that and fears the legal aspect.

Before we were confident that the RC alone is ok for me to stay there but now when we called the IND they said I needed a visa as well. The original plan is that I go there with the RC and apply for residence permit there.
If you can advise me on this matter, we would be really grateful.

Have you and your husband read through the conclusions of the MRAX case? It very clear both about the requirement to let you in if you do not have a visa, and also about the requirement to issue you with a Residence Card even if you did not have a visa to enter the country.

I personally do not think you will have any problem. I personally would go for it.

I personally do not see much downside, since worst case you get turned down at the border, and have to go back to London. Or you easily make it through and you apply for a shiny new Netherlands Residence Card and they (for some reason ignorant of MRAX) insist that you must have a visa.

Remember your husband is working in the Netherlands and you have a very clear legal right to be there. MRAX is very clear! You are not going to be arrested as an illegal immigrant!

But if either of you are not comfortable with it, then I doubt you will find it worth doing. I personally would not do it if my wife/husband was not quite comfortable.

Why does anyone say you need a visa once you have the UK issued Residence Card? Netherlands embassy does not seem to think so: http://www.dutchembassyuk.org/consular/index.php?i=261 It does not make much sense.

Have you got your passports back yet?

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:09 pm

Have you got your passports back yet?

not yet, but hopefully we'll have it by fri or tomorrow.

Why does anyone say you need a visa once you have the UK issued Residence Card? Netherlands embassy does not seem to think so: http://www.dutchembassyuk.org/consular/index.php?i=261 It does not make much sense.

yeah, its really frustrating and I try to explain it to them patiently. First response was to get schen gen and then I explained that the residence card states that I'm a family member of an EEA national. They then told me that I wouldn't be needing a visa then. Apparently, its just to visit him but if I plan to live there and register, its a whole new process and IND requires me to have a facilitating visa because of my nationality. When I asked IND about that and they told me to ask the dutch embassy for about it. I just talked to a personnel in the dutch embassy and they said I had to ask IND for it and they cant process it for me since I dont have the bloody RC yet. please excuse me french. Its just going back and forth so I just told my husband that its his turn to call IND there and ask for all the details we would be needing.

Or you easily make it through and you apply for a shiny new Netherlands Residence Card and they (for some reason ignorant of MRAX) insist that you must have a visa.

I wish its easy like that but IND requires me to apply for a facilitating visa which I dont have any idea what the hell is before I get my shiny residence card for that country. Its so stressful and all I wanted is to just be with my husband. We're still leaving this weekend if I get my passport.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:00 pm

I dearly hope you will make a formal complaint to the European Commission about the incorrect information and incorrect requirements of the Dutch. Not this weekend of course, but later.

epouse · Post by **epouse** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:14 am

Hello.

Just got back all of the documents I sent to the HO with a sticker in my passport saying that its a residence card valid until 2016. Weird thing is, the case worker from the agency who first received it ( I went to the agency myself to collect it) said that the residence card isn't included and will be sent out later. I knew she went through everything as it is opened when I got it. I just saw the sticker on my way home. I'd have to ask her about it again but just to check, I was pretty sure that the residence card is the sticker they put in your passport, or was I wrong and it really is like a card per se?

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