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5 years for ILR rule implemented

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jayj
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Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:27 pm

Post by jayj » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:25 am

I think that our frustrations are running high and that we need to stop the blame culture and get on with things. Forget about VBSI doing anything at this time. VBSI does not want to go for legal action , we passed the 3month period , how long have we have to wait...forget the waiting , lets find a law firm or if we have great stuff...lets setup an account withthe law firm and contribute our monies , and get on with it....If we feel so strongly about something...don't wait for others to do thinsg for you...get on and do it for yourself...

1. Law firm
2. Monies contribution - people signoff

Forget about all this mass protest and so forth...a waste of time...thank VBSI for their support...but I think this is where the affected ones take it to the next step...not VBSI...

rooi_ding
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Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:17 pm

Post by rooi_ding » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:17 am

alien I do apologies if I presumed that you would help in setting up a legal action organization.

However I am sure that anyone else who intends doing this would greatly benefit from the knowledge that alien has acquired and also from the knowledge that the VBSI has acquired I would asked everyone (including jayj) that you would not dismiss the work the VBSI is doing or in anyway tray to sway people from supporting it.

I am asking everyone that they support the organization that they believe will have the desired affect. Once again I would like to spell out that the VBSI has chosen its route and I would encourage anyone else who feels they can set up an organization to follow the legal route that they should do this.

I would like to remind everyone that we are skilled immigrants and not Neanderthals who dwell in caves, we do not fight amongst our selves to gain more favor with our fellow immigrants. We work together to achieve a common goal. I would therefore encourage everyone to put aside this squabbling now and to start being pro active. Please do not let me loose faith with my fellow immigrants.

BadPaul
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Post by BadPaul » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:15 am

Dear all,

I just returned from holiday and went through the posts in the last 3 weeks and I have to say I am very surprised to find out that VBSI although claims it represents the skilled immigrants, fails to recognize and to consider the legal alternative. I am sorry to say this but I find it very arrogant for an organization claiming to fight for the rights of immigrants to dismiss our suggestions and imply things like " if you don't like our decision go and form your own organization ".

I do not think this kind of arguments serve any purpose; therefore I would like to make a suggestion:

- all of us in favour of legal action should join VBSI, form a working group within the organization and explore the legal route.
- we will coordinate with the " lobbying group", making sure we are working towards a common goal and help rather than fight each other

Exploring the legal route doesn’t mean we are going to sue the HO tomorrow, but rather get advice from professionals and prepare a potential case.
This should also provide all of us with „ammunition “ in our negotiation with the HO.

I personally believe a well placed hint to the HO during the negotiations that we are also seeking legal advice and consider taking them to court if negotiations fails, will help. Doctors' case is relevant for how the HO think: they didn't take them seriously up until they faced a court case. And by the way, I know who is representing BAPIO, a top QC who defeated HO in many high profile cases, so I can understand why HO is thinking now of changing the rules rather than face another defeat in court.

Finally, with regards to the famous 3 months, what we need to clarify is whether Stephen kong has already submitted a JR application or not.

If the answer is yes, then I will quote what a reputable solicitors firm told me with regards to the VBSI taking part in the JR although they were not part the initial application : " That is good news. VBSI could be detailed in the judicial review as an interested party. However, it could be liable to costs if the judicial review is not successful. Please keep me updated with the judicial review application as you have news. This will be of extreme interest to a lot of people. "


So, what do you think of my suggestion?

BR,

Paul

rooi_ding
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Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:17 pm

Post by rooi_ding » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:25 am

BadPaul

I agree and encourage most of what you have suggested, however I do wish to correct you in that you have not read correctly what the VBSI have been saying.

I think that it is quite clear that legal action was NOT dismissed by the VBSI, it. It is not something that they are pursuing aggressively. They are simple putting all there efforts into something that was already in place which was to negotiate with HO.

I think the active members of the VBSI have been encouraging people to join and help in there efforts. I think to form a sub committee within the VBSI to pursue the legal route is a good idea. I personally suggested creating a separate organization but if the active members think they can facilitate the sub committee then I would back it.

I would suggested contacting the VBSI to see how you can set this up

first2last4
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Post by first2last4 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:22 pm

rooi_ding wrote:BadPaul
I personally suggested creating a separate organization but if the active members think they can facilitate the sub committee then I would back it.
Another effort to establish a new organisation. Again end up helping someone establish an organisation/company without actually acheiving what actually we wanted(legal action).

.....Waste of another 3 - 4 months.
Knowledge which is concealed is lost -Hadith

stevej
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Post by stevej » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:25 pm

A new proposal has been handed to House of Commons by John Reid, please click below for the full document

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... iew=Binary

In the end of this document, states, 4.17 In the meantime, we would welcome any immediate comments on this document. These can be sent to
indreviewcomments@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

I will send some of my concerns to home office shortly.

ssi
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:57 pm

Post by ssi » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:47 pm

Paul, good to have you back!
BadPaul wrote:VBSI although claims it represents the skilled immigrants, fails to recognize and to consider the legal alternative.
It is not true. A lot of effort has been put into sorting the misunderstanding and misinterpetations out on this forum. Legal alternative is considered, but it is not at the forefront of the activities at the moment.
I am sorry to say this but I find it very arrogant for an organization claiming to fight for the rights of immigrants to dismiss our suggestions and imply things like " if you don't like our decision go and form your own organization ".
Please, let's choose adjectives carefuly and try not to upset anyone. As far as I understand, we are already working together towards a common goal and even within the same organisation. Let's not assume people intentionally behave badly. If you dislike something about the way people express themselves, let's make an effort to move towards a more civil conversation together.
- all of us in favour of legal action should join VBSI, form a working group within the organization and explore the legal route.
- we will coordinate with the " lobbying group", making sure we are working towards a common goal and help rather than fight each other
Splendid!
Exploring the legal route doesn’t mean we are going to sue the HO tomorrow,
Exactly!
but rather get advice from professionals and prepare a potential case.
This has already been done with CL. Let's involve more professionals!
This should also provide all of us with „ammunition “ in our negotiation with the HO.
I believe SK has done just this. It would not be sensible, I think, to threaten LB with a court action during the meeting. The fact that the HO/IND is talking to us already means that they are starting to take us seriously.
I personally believe a well placed hint to the HO during the negotiations that we are also seeking legal advice and consider taking them to court if negotiations fails, will help.
I believe the hint/s have already been placed. It is very well said, we do not need threats right now. And hints should be very well placed.
Finally, with regards to the famous 3 months, what we need to clarify is whether Stephen kong has already submitted a JR application or not.
He did say he did. We do not yet know on what grounds - whether he challenged the law (I think unlikely) or particular client's ILR refusals. It was posted here a few weeks ago that the HO is expected to reply to his legal challenge on 4 August. Latest correspondence with SK:
From: Stephen Kong
To: VBSI
Subject: Judicial Review Application Lodged
Date: 20/07/06 05:07

Dear VBSI Team,

Thank you for your email.
I will keep you informed of new development in due course.
Please will you send all future emails to my new office address: stephen.kong@harveysf.co.uk
Also, our office email address has been changed to: mail.london@harveysf.co.uk My business mobile phone number is: 07900 414 378
Many thanks.
Best Wishes,
Stephen Kong
for Harvey Son & Filby Solicitors
-----------------------------
VBSI <vbsi@vbsi.org.uk> wrote:
Dear Stephen,
Many thanks for this update.
It is very fortunate that you and your firm initiated this Review, and we can now pursue these two parallel courses of action: your Judicial Review application and lobbying, and exchange information. If you visited our Web site recently, you probably know that we are meeting with the Immigration Minister next week.
Since we, as an organisation, do not have any money, we cannot offer you any financial support at the moment, but we placed an info regarding your JR application on our Web site: http://www.vbsi.org.uk/index.php?page=l ... rmation#jr , and interested individuals will be able to contact you directly.
We will have a PO Box postal address in the nearest future, and we will ask you to send us the documents you mentioned.
Please do keep in touch!
Kind regards,
--
VBSI Team
---------------------------------
If the answer is yes, then I will quote what a reputable solicitors firm told me with regards to the VBSI taking part in the JR although they were not part the initial application : " That is good news. VBSI could be detailed in the judicial review as an interested party. However, it could be liable to costs if the judicial review is not successful. Please keep me updated with the judicial review application as you have news. This will be of extreme interest to a lot of people. "
So far the VBSI is formally not involved in any legal proceedings. We believe this is the reason the HO/IND is talking to us. Please join the VBSI and we will discuss everything thoroughly.

RobinLondon
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Location: SE London

Post by RobinLondon » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:50 pm

stevej wrote:A new proposal has been handed to House of Commons by John Reid, please click below for the full document

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... iew=Binary

In the end of this document, states, 4.17 In the meantime, we would welcome any immediate comments on this document. These can be sent to
indreviewcomments@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

I will send some of my concerns to home office shortly.
I provided a link to this document already last week. I also sent some comments by e-mail to the provided address, but I have received repeated messages from my server that the Home Office server is not accepting any messages.

So there you go. There's also a post address included in the review. That might be a better way to go.

nonothing
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:04 am

Post by nonothing » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:10 pm

stevej wrote:A new proposal has been handed to House of Commons by John Reid, please click below for the full document

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... iew=Binary

In the end of this document, states, 4.17 In the meantime, we would welcome any immediate comments on this document. These can be sent to
indreviewcomments@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

I will send some of my concerns to home office shortly.
Image

stevej
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:11 am

Post by stevej » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:38 pm

Sorry Paul,

I did not see this post- my last post may shift the attention a bit from your suggestions, which I would applause for!

I agree that we should jion VBSI and start a sub group to deal with legal actions to parellise with the lobby work.

I donot want to be rude to some people but I suppose if people want to start a sub -group in VBSI , there is no need to get anyone's premission!
BadPaul wrote:Dear all,

I just returned from holiday and went through the posts in the last 3 weeks and I have to say I am very surprised to find out that VBSI although claims it represents the skilled immigrants, fails to recognize and to consider the legal alternative. I am sorry to say this but I find it very arrogant for an organization claiming to fight for the rights of immigrants to dismiss our suggestions and imply things like " if you don't like our decision go and form your own organization ".

I do not think this kind of arguments serve any purpose; therefore I would like to make a suggestion:

- all of us in favour of legal action should join VBSI, form a working group within the organization and explore the legal route.
- we will coordinate with the " lobbying group", making sure we are working towards a common goal and help rather than fight each other

Exploring the legal route doesn’t mean we are going to sue the HO tomorrow, but rather get advice from professionals and prepare a potential case.
This should also provide all of us with „ammunition “ in our negotiation with the HO.

I personally believe a well placed hint to the HO during the negotiations that we are also seeking legal advice and consider taking them to court if negotiations fails, will help. Doctors' case is relevant for how the HO think: they didn't take them seriously up until they faced a court case. And by the way, I know who is representing BAPIO, a top QC who defeated HO in many high profile cases, so I can understand why HO is thinking now of changing the rules rather than face another defeat in court.

Finally, with regards to the famous 3 months, what we need to clarify is whether Stephen kong has already submitted a JR application or not.

If the answer is yes, then I will quote what a reputable solicitors firm told me with regards to the VBSI taking part in the JR although they were not part the initial application : " That is good news. VBSI could be detailed in the judicial review as an interested party. However, it could be liable to costs if the judicial review is not successful. Please keep me updated with the judicial review application as you have news. This will be of extreme interest to a lot of people. "


So, what do you think of my suggestion?

BR,

Paul

stevej
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Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:11 am

Post by stevej » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Yes nonoting- but still this proposal did not say when the pionts system will be in place... I just thought we could take this as a chance to comment to HO..
[quote="nonothing
Image[/quote]

nonothing
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:04 am

Post by nonothing » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:42 pm

stevej wrote:we could take this as a chance to comment to HO..
yes, we all should do so.

ssi
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:57 pm

Post by ssi » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:55 pm

stevej wrote:I suppose if people want to start a sub -group in VBSI , there is no need to get anyone's premission!
Exactly! There is no barrier for joining. Or, rather, the barrier is purely psychological. All it takes an email to info at vbsi.org.uk . No one needs anyone's permission to do anything. The VBSI exists to join and to coordinate efforts and resourses. Anyone can do it. There is no management and there has never been any leadership vote. Anyone can initiate an activity or "take over" if they like.

nonothing
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:04 am

Post by nonothing » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:32 am

Reid loses Afghan hijack ruling

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4766595.stm

even hijacker can have the discretionary leave to stay in the UK.

BadPaul
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by BadPaul » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:10 pm

Regardless of whether we like or dislike the decision in the Afghan hijackers case, it shows one thing : HO can be defeated in court and forced to accept something they initially refused to.

By the way, the QC defending the Afghans is the same one BAPIO used in their case against the HO !



BR,

Paul

ssi
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:57 pm

Post by ssi » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:46 pm

BadPaul wrote:By the way, the QC defending the Afghans is the same one BAPIO used in their case against the HO !
Could it be the same QC, who is going to represent CL's clients in case lobbying fails?

BadPaul
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Posts: 36
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by BadPaul » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:53 pm

I don't know who will represent CLs clients, I wouldn't want to speculate on things I have no information about :)).

BR,

Paul

wr
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WP 4 to 5 Judicial Review Update

Post by wr » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:41 pm

Dear friends,

Greetings to you all.

As I am aware that many of you are very concerned about your right to settlement under the old 4 years qualifying period rules for employment categories and following our Judicial Review application, I am writing to you just in case you wish to know the development of the JR proceedings.

Please allow me to brief you, ladies and gentlemen:-

1. We are actively pursuing the Judicial Review application and I can confirm that our JR was lodged in time on 9th June and duly acknowledged by the Court on the even date. Please note, we are not seeking judicial review of any decision of the Home Office to refuse individual applicants' application for indefinite leave to remain on the basis of their completion of four year work permit employment BECAUSE at the time of our judicial review application, we had not even submitted any application for indefinite leave to remain on this basis for the claimant clients. INSTEAD, we had made a judicial review application against the retrospective application of the new settlement rules (HC 1016) itself and the application was lodged on the 9th June 2006 within the time limit. This was done in order to preserve the right to judicial review of the new rules. The deadline for this (the Judicial Review) was 3 July 2006. Therefore, If the JR were successful in the broad term, it would benefit all the 100,000 immigrants in the employment categories, not just individual claimants.

2. The Treasury Solicitors has unexpectedly again requested for a further extension of time limit yesterday (8th August) for filing of acknowledgement in order to take further instructions from their client i.e. the Secretary of State for the Home Department (SSHD). The extended deadline requested by the SSHD is now 18th August 2006.

3. In relation to the BAPIO's (British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin) judicial review application, the Court has ordered that their application to be expedited and we understood from the press that it may be heard by the end of August 2006. If this is the case, we would expect a substantive response from the Secretary of State or the Immigration Minister or via their solicitors, the Treasury Solicitors, by 18 August 2006, for obvious reasons. The similarity between BAPIO's JR and ours is that both are seeking JR of the retrospective effect of the new rules in HC1016. We shall update you of the latest development as soon as this becomes available.

4. If the Secretary of State refused to reconsider and if permission to apply for Judicial Review were granted, we would, if necessary, ask the Court to expedite hearing of the case considering its nature and the group of people affected.

5. Even if, the application were to be delayed to next year as some claimed that it would, please do not forget that not only those issued with work permits in 2002 are affected by the new rules, but many more others issued with work permits in 2003, 2004, 2005 and before 13th March 2006 (the date the new rules were announced) are all affected, the latters would have qualified for ILR in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 but for the new settlement rules. So, the JR if won will no doubt benefit all those who could apply for settlement under the 4 years qualifying period rule in the next four years. Moreover, in BAPIO case the Court has as we understand ordered for their JR hearing to be expedited.

Of course, my firm and I are fully aware that Christine Lee is working unceasingly hard to lobby the Ministers to reconsider the new rules and we are all hoping that her efforts will bring positive results even before our JR is decided.

Before I update you again, Harvey Son & Filby wish you all the best.


With Best Wishes,


Stephen Kong
(Partner of Harvey Son & Filby Solicitors)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

HARVEY SON & FILBY SOLICITORS

Tel: + (44) (0) 208 349 8333 Fax: + (44) (0) 208 349 8777
Central House, 1 Ballards Lane, Finchley Central, London N3 1LQ Email: mail.london@harveysf.co.uk

Partners: Paul Harvey LLB Solicitor, Richard Kong LLB LLM Solicitor, Stephen Kong LLB LLM Solicitor

Associates: Adrian Vidgen LLB Solicitor, Justin Chua LLB Solicitor, Alvyn Kee* LLB MBA MSc, Conveyancing Manager: Barry Ullyett* ILEX, Customer Relations Manager: Kathy Li* BA MA

*non-solicitor

Head Office at 231 Foxhall Road, Ipswich IP3 8LF. Tel: 01473 712 962 Fax: 01473 721 777. This firm is regulated by The Law Society of England and Wales and a member of Immigration Law Practitioners Association (ILPA).
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This E-mail is confidential to the addressee. It may also be privileged. Neither the confidentiality nor any privilege attached to this E-mail is waived, lost or destroyed by reason that it has been mistakenly transmitted to a person or entity other than the addressee. Please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited if you are not the addressee. Please notify us immediately by telephone +44 (0) 208 349 8333 and delete this copy.

Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect which might affect any system into which they are opened or received, it is the responsibility of the recipient to check that they are virus free and that they will in no way affect systems and data. Harvey Son & Filby Solicitors will not be responsible for any loss or damage arising in any way from their receipt, opening or use.

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Justice
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Post by Justice » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:38 am

I have just read the message from Stephen Kong.

I salute him and thank him and his firm for all that they have done and been labouring quietly without much talking.

Thanks.

ibo
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Post by ibo » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Excellent work Mr. Stephen Kong. Thank you very much. Look forward to hearing from you soon after August 18th.

Very best,

IBO

Papafaith
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Post by Papafaith » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:58 pm

Excellent work Stephen, i believe many of us will give you all the support you need. Indeed you have been working quietly.
An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

mansawant
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Location: London

Thanks

Post by mansawant » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:52 pm

Hi Stephen,

Many thanks. You are doing a wonderful job on behalf of all the affected work permit holders.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Mansawant

first2last4
Member
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Post by first2last4 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:58 pm

Somebody is really doing the work in the background. This is brilliant stuff Stephen.
Knowledge which is concealed is lost -Hadith

gaurav
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Location: uk

Post by gaurav » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:20 pm

Bravo ! Well done Stephe, that is great work.

wazman
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great!

Post by wazman » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:17 pm

Stephen Kong deserves a great big thank-you, along with the lobbying team who are pursuing the political avenue. It's great to know that both angles are covered.

W.

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