Egyptian married to EU national - Can travel WITHOUT visa?

[Yasser::Norske]

Greetings everybody from Cairo, Egypt!

I'm Egyptian married to a woman from Poland, my wife don't want to stay in Poland or in Egypt anymore and she wants to immigrate to Oslo (Live and work there) and me too, I love Norway and I will go with her.

But we have encountered a problem now! I needed a visa to travel with my wife, but she don't need as she carrying Polish passport which is also a Schengen State. In Egypt, all embassies are so dearly beloved and dealing with people in very bad way, it is well-know among Egyptian People.

We went to embassy of Norway and explained them our rights according to law and Directive/2004/38/EC but they rejected my application for nothing, the visa officer told me that we want a prove that your wife is European, I gave him Polish Passport, he said no we want a card, I found him complicating the situation, so I took my wife and we left the embassy.

We went at another day to the Finnish embassy and the visa officer understand the directive, and she asked about legalizing of Marriage in Poland, we showed her the stamp of the Polish embassy of the marriage certificate, that was on June.08 and today after 20 days of submitting the papers I emailed the embassy and the consul told me that we can't produce visa for you because you haven't legalized your marriage in Poland! A**holes...

We was at Belgium embassy two days ago and they also complicated the situation, but she don't ask for anything more the officer want that she send the marriage contract to Belgium so they study it and give us decision! I started to hate Europe and I feel so sad for this...

We have already contacted SOLVEIT since we went to Norwegian Embassy in Cairo, but they are not helpful at all, just asking questions and then disappear.

Now, my wife says we are late, she wants to be in Europe by the beginning of July - Can I travel with her to Oslo, without visa? Carrying (Original Marriage Certificate, English translation, medical insurance)?

The plan will fly from Cairo to Istanbul on July.08. and then we will have 3 hours transit and then we will ride by another plan to Oslo.

Note: I have stamp from Finland embassy, it says C VISA FI and also from Belgium!

Please, I need your help very much in this complicated situation. Thanks in advance.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

We went to embassy of Norway and explained them our rights according to law and Directive/2004/38/EC but they rejected my application for nothing, the visa officer told me that we want a prove that your wife is European, I gave him Polish Passport, he said no we want a card, I found him complicating the situation, so I took my wife and we left the embassy.

Was your wife there? What "card" did he want? Did you ask for or receive a written rejection explaining the reason for being rejected?

We went at another day to the Finnish embassy and the visa officer understand the directive, and she asked about legalizing of Marriage in Poland, we showed her the stamp of the Polish embassy of the marriage certificate, that was on June.08 and today after 20 days of submitting the papers I emailed the embassy and the consul told me that we can't produce visa for you because you haven't legalized your marriage in Poland!

Did you follow up with them? Did you ask for or receive a written rejection explaining the reason for being rejected?

We was at Belgium embassy two days ago and they also complicated the situation, but she don't ask for anything more the officer want that she send the marriage contract to Belgium so they study it and give us decision!

We have already contacted SOLVEIT since we went to Norwegian Embassy in Cairo, but they are not helpful at all, just asking questions and then disappear.

Did you follow up with Solvit? They take a while! Keep in touch with them every week!


It feels like you are going to one embassy, they say no, you do not worth with them to address the problem, then you go to the next embassy. No wonder you are feeling frustrated and you do not have the visa yet!

It sounds like you start lots of contacts, and then walk away. You need to be patient and work with the embassy people.

If you want to go to Norway, then work with the Norwegian embassy.

I do not think you will be able to travel by plane without a visa.

Where did you get married? What type of marriage is it? What did you do with the Polish embassy with respect to legalizing it?

[Yasser::Norske]

Thank you a lot for your reply. I love reading your answers, they are always right and helpful.

- "Was your wife there? What "card" did he want? Did you ask for or receive a written rejection explaining the reason for being rejected?" My wife was there with me at the embassy. I didn't know what card did he ask for; I assumed that he was complicating everything for us in order not to let me travel to Europe. I didn't get a written refusal neither I asked for, I didn't know that I should have it. Also at the Finnish Embassy, they gave me a written refusal by email which I think it is informal.

What do you expect SOLVIT will do for us? I don't trust any European organization of them, after breaching the laws produced by the European Parliament, but if you ever had a problem with them and got it solved, tell me how it did go with you?

You don't know European Embassies Stuff, They try to find any stumbling stone and show up it for you; at Belgian Embassy, The consul woman shouted at me, just because I was explaining to her Directive 2004/38/EC, I wanted to revenge from her (Because she discriminate my rights).

Does it worth trying again at Norwegian Embassy, you think so? Even though I have stamps from Finland and Belgium?

We got married here in Cairo, EG. "What type of marriage is it?" I don't understand what you mean. But it is Legal Marriage and I love my wife and she love me of course.

We didn't do anything at Polish Embassy, we only go there to finish our paper of marriage, Do you think there are anything the Polish Embassy can do for us?

My wife will get Turkish visa at airport, but I will get it from the Turkish Embassy in Cairo. Then we will fly on EgyptAir to Istanbul and from Istanbul we will ride on the Norwegian to Olso, (In your opinion, where would the problem be, with Airport Police or The Air Agency?).

Hope that my questions was not very much annoying - Looking forward to hear a reply from everybody have an experience with such situations. All The Best, Yasser

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You are going to need to have a lot more patience. Breathe deeply and be patient!

Thank you a lot for your reply. I love reading your answers, they are always right and helpful.

I am definitely NOT "always right and helpful". I have many witnesses that can confirm what I say. But it is nice that you think so!

- "Was your wife there? What "card" did he want? Did you ask for or receive a written rejection explaining the reason for being rejected?" My wife was there with me at the embassy. I didn't know what card did he ask for; I assumed that he was complicating everything for us in order not to let me travel to Europe. I didn't get a written refusal neither I asked for, I didn't know that I should have it. Also at the Finnish Embassy, they gave me a written refusal by email which I think it is informal.

I think you should go back to the Norwegian embassy and try again. If they ask for a card, find out exactly what card they want. It could be he was interested in seeing your wife's Polish ID card, and it may be worth taking that along. But if she does not have one that is fine. Just explain that she does not have one and does not need one since she is living outside of Poland. But work with the person you are talking with. They are part of your team. Do NOT assume that they are "complicating everything for us". Maybe they don't know some of the subtle details of European law. Be very very patient. Ask them to explain. Ask them questions.

If you get angry and yell at them (even if you are right!), you will achieve nothing and they will not want to work with you to get the visa issued!

What do you expect SOLVIT will do for us? I don't trust any of them, after breaching the laws produced by the European Consul, but if you ever had a problem with them and got it solved, tell me how it did go with you?

You do not need to trust them. They can help if you have a specific problem of law. They can not help to resolve a yelling match though!

So if the Norwegen embassy wants a specific card XYZ, but your wife does not have it, and it is not legally required, then Solvit can help resolve that. Solvit can be slow, and sometimes Solvit can not help, or can not convince both parties to come to a proper compromise. But it is worth trying! No?

You don't know European Embassies Stuff, They try to find any stumbling stone and show up it for you; at Belgian Embassy, The consul woman shouted at me, just because I was explaining to her Directive 2004/38/EC, I wanted to revenge from her (Because she discriminate my rights).

Would you get upset if I thought you really did not understand Egyptian law and so started explaining it to you? Think about it! Have patience. Ask her to explain what she understands the law to be with regards to European free movement law. And then ask he simple but very informed questions!

We got married here in Cairo, EG. "What type of marriage is it?" I don't understand what you mean. But it is Legal Marriage and I love my wife and she love me of course.

Did you get married in a catholic church? Or a Mosque? Or in a city office? What language is the marriage certificate in? What did you then ask the Polish embassy to do with the certificate?

[Yasser::Norske]

I am definitely NOT "always right and helpful". I have many witnesses that can confirm what I say. But it is nice that you think so!

At least you have confident answers, that really enough to center about!

I think you should go back to the Norwegian embassy and try again. If they ask for a card, find out exactly what card they want. It could be he was interested in seeing your wife's Polish ID card, and it may be worth taking that along. But if she does not have one that is fine. Just explain that she does not have one and does not need one since she is living outside of Poland. But work with the person you are talking with. They are part of your team. Do NOT assume that they are "complicating everything for us". Maybe they don't know some of the subtle details of European law. Be very very patient. Ask them to explain. Ask them questions.

If you get angry and yell at them (even if you are right!), you will achieve nothing and they will not want to work with you to get the visa issued!

We will give it a try again! I will try to be calmer and not nervous, although it is very annoying when you see people breaching laws and you know and they know that it is illegal! Do you think things would be different when applying at Consulates in Turkey, maybe they are more civilized? We will also keep in contact with SOLVIT, although I don't expect nothing from them, I wanted to go directly to European Ombudsman, but this will take a long time and Now, I want the visa to travel with my wife to Europe and we start our normal life

Would you get upset if I thought you really did not understand Egyptian law and so started explaining it to you? Think about it! Have patience. Ask her to explain what she understands the law to be with regards to European free movement law. And then ask he simple but very informed questions!

My friend it isn't about misunderstanding, it is about complicating the issue, I felt it. Again, would the situation be better if we applied in Turkey?

Did you get married in a catholic church? Or a Mosque? Or in a city office? What language is the marriage certificate in? What did you then ask the Polish embassy to do with the certificate?

Of course we got married at Civil Office and we have a registered number of marriage, plus Certified Translation, from Egyptian Ministry of Justice. The Marriage Certificate Language was in Arabic, but we got a certified translation to English (The only Language they have at the ministry for it), from The ministry of Justice in Cairo. In the Polish Embassy we asked them to legalized the Polish Translation of our Marriage Certificate (In Cairo, there is a certified office by the Polish Embassy that translates the documents into Polish) so we can use it in Poland. The Polish embassy is the place where my wife use her tongue all the time, I'm the only person who can understand her English and my family LOL

A friendly part What is your name and where are you from?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

It may or may not be better from Turkey. But you should focus on working with the embassies you have now in Egypt. Make the best of that!

I know 100% that it can be frustrating and infuriating and difficult and annoying and even silly. But breath deeply and find the vast pools of inner patience that you will need for dealing with embassy visa departments, for being married, for having children, ....

Assume solvit may not work out, but work with them and find out the information that they need in order to help you! They may be able to help!

Any complaints to the European Commission will take a long time. Think a year or more. So focus for now on getting the visa and getting everything in writing, so you have a documentation trail if you need to later complain.

It sounds like your marriage documentation is pretty straight forward. Take all three (original, english, and polish) with you to any embassy meeting.

Oslo is a lovely place, especially in the late summer!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Don't try to quote much of this to them, but
http://translate.google.ca/translate?sl ... Full13.htm

Is a translation of some of the Directive's transposition into Norwegian...

[Yasser::Norske]

Thanks a lot for your reply, (Still don't know your name yet to call you by, even from where! But Obviously European

But I still want your opinion, Whether traveling to Oslo with my wife carrying proof of the relationship?

§ 3-18. Visa at the border (emergency visas)
If unforeseen and urgent reasons for doing so, a visa foreigner who sign up for passport control without a valid visa, granted a Schengen visa at the border when the conditions for issuing such a visa by § 10 are met.
Even if the conditions for issuing visas by § 10 are not met, may be issued visas at the border when special reasonable grounds for doing so and the conditions for issuing national visas for § 11 , or an entry visa by § 12 , cf Regulations § 3-13 subsection (entry visas to foreign nationals who are granted a residence permit) are met.
A visa notification crew who resign their positions on board the Norwegian or foreign ship while it is in a Norwegian port, see § 4-17 , may be granted visas at the border. Immigration may issue further guidance about the visa at the border, including rules concerning the duration of such visas.

What do you think now? All I'm afraid from is that Officer at Istanbul Airport don't allow me to ride with my wife on the plan

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I do not think you will be able to travel by plane without a visa. The airline people will turn you away before you ever get to meet a Schengen border guard.

[Yasser::Norske]

I have contacted the Turkish Airlines and they responded that they have no responsibility about the validity of visas

Referring to your message, since we do not have any responsibility about visa regulations, please consult with closest Turkish Consulate to get detailed information regarding visa regulations

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have contacted the Turkish Airlines and they responded that they have no responsibility about the validity of visas

Referring to your message, since we do not have any responsibility about visa regulations, please consult with closest Turkish Consulate to get detailed information regarding visa regulations

Ask them the specific question of whether they will let you board the plane if you do not have a required visa... I suspect they will say NO.

[dasjoker]

Would you get upset if I thought you really did not understand Egyptian law and so started explaining it to you? Think about it! Have patience. Ask her to explain what she understands the law to be with regards to European free movement law. And then ask he simple but very informed questions!

My friend it isn't about misunderstanding, it is about complicating the issue, I felt it. Again, would the situation be better if we applied in Turkey?

I am also NON-EEA family member of eu from Turkey.
pretty sure it's almost same in Turkey as well.
you just need be calm and more patience also do not try to argue with embassy officer because it's not going to help at all.

[Yasser::Norske]

Ask them the specific question of whether they will let you board the plane if you do not have a required visa... I suspect they will say NO.

I did ask them, but seem that they are sleeping, hope to get their answer soon! In case, they said YES, what shall I do? We will go today to Norwegian Embassy again today, hopefully to find something new, pray for us everybody!

I am also NON-EEA family member of eu from Turkey.
pretty sure it's almost same in Turkey as well.
you just need be calm and more patience also do not try to argue with embassy officer because it's not going to help at all.

I will F*** all those A** holes when I get the visa! Tell me, how did it work for you til you get the "Entry Visa" Can you explain the steps, from the moment you entered embassy to the moment you got the visa? Or you traveled with your spouse to their country? Thank you in advance

[Yasser::Norske]

Directive/2004/38/EC,

I want to tell you about what I made today in the Norwegian Embassy. As you told me, I was very calm and cooperative and I sit down til they finish with people who came before me. After I went to him and I told him 'I want to apply for 'Entry Visa' as a Family member of EU national and I gave some of papers you told me about in Norwegian. I asked if he can read Norwegian, he replied no. I told him I want to talk with someone who can understand Norwegian to tell him... he took the papers and told me to come after half a hour to meet a Norwegian person, after half an hour I came back and I found the same stupid officer with nothing new, he even don't let meet the Norwegian officer he told me about..!! After, I told him now I need to apply for Schenegn Visa to accompany my wife - he said that I have to pay to process, I told him I'm exempted, he said no you have to pay, even to get a written rejection, I have to pay visa fees. I was very angry and I wished to revenge him!! How can I start case against Norwegian Embassy in Egypt? I feel very much hurted and my rights have been violated. I want a compensation, we have lost our scheduled flights and our contacts with landlords in Oslo

[factone]

I will F*** all those A** holes when I get the visa! Tell me, how did it work for you til you get the "Entry Visa" Can you explain the steps, from the moment you entered embassy to the moment you got the visa? Or you traveled with your spouse to their country? Thank you in advance

bravo what kind of language you using on the forum
you need to be civilized to talk to officials which certtainly you are not.

as there are so many shame marriages or bogus marriages are with polish girls and people are paying to get a eu visa thats why embassy is taking time and want to verify that this is a real marriage and not for sake of visa where money has been paid
and the way you are rushing in the yes of officials this is proving right .
why you are in so hurry to go to europe
its not the end of the world if you get visa after a few days or your wife is going to leave you alone
these days so many people from egypt morroco and other countries are paying money to polish and slovakia girls to get married and obtain a visa to enter the europe and this is no secret to embassy staff thats why they are a bit tough may be you need explain more
and how long are you married for
if its over a year and you living together this will benefit you but if its a recent marriage than in theory its marriage but in practice v hard for you to get a visa just because of shame marriages in practice from embassy wish you best of luck and let us know what happend about italian visa as well and dont keep getting your passport refusels
factone

[Yasser::Norske]

Sorry! I'm really civilized most of the time, but I hate when people violate laws, I become very much nervous

I agree with you about 'Marriage of Convince' But I haven't payed anything to my wife at all. We really have 15 years different - She is 35 and I'm 20! But she is very good looking and nice and if anybody wants to prove if our marriage is black or not, it is Ok!

I'm not in hurry to go to Europe, who said that. Why you look to the case in so negative way? We just want to go to Europe soon, because it is summer job and it will be somehow easy to get employed. Winter is so nasty in the north

Time means a lot for us. There were flights booking and other several things we are ready about, we have contacted the people who we were going to stay with in Oslo, but nothing happened!

let us know what happend about italian visa as well and dont keep getting your passport refusels

hahahaha, I never got refusals, yesterday I asked the officer at Norwegian embassy to give me a written refusal ( Was just to send it to SOLVIT ) but he told me I should pay first 6o Euros, a**hole!! I don't like the Italian consulates. The airport says that they don't check visas of person who traveling through it, I will get my wife and fly

Now I have two stamps on my passport from the Belgian embassy and the Finnish Embassy!! By the way, we have been married for just 2 months When we wanted to travel together to Europe marriage became important! But we know each other for more than six months.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Now I have two stamps on my passport from the Belgian embassy and the Finnish Embassy!! By the way, we have been married for just 2 months :( When we wanted to travel together to Europe marriage became important!

Exactly what stamps do you have in your passport from these countries?

[Yasser::Norske]

___

[Yasser::Norske]

Exactly what stamps do you have in your passport from these countries?

I have stamps about receiving visa application from Finnish embassy says - 'Embassy of Finland - C VISA FI - 08. 06 .2011' I think it is about type of visa. 'Visa Application Received Cairo 26 Jun 2011 - Code: C and B' from Belgian Embassy. What do you think now?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Exactly what stamps do you have in your passport from these countries?

I have stamps about receiving visa application from Finnish embassy says - 'Embassy of Finland - C VISA FI - 08. 06 .2011' I think it is about type of visa. 'Visa Application Received Cairo 26 Jun 2011 - Code: C and B' from Belgian Embassy. What do you think now?

Tell me more!

Do you have outstanding applications at both of these embassies, or did they put these stamps in your passport after it turned out you both disagreed about the rules? What do you think they mean?

[Yasser::Norske]

Tell me more!

Do you have outstanding applications at both of these embassies, or did they put these stamps in your passport after it turned out you both disagreed about the rules? What do you think they mean?

Yeah, I just have outstanding application at the Belgian Embassy - As the Finnish embassy responded to my application saying that 'I must give them the Marriage Certificate of Poland and not in Egypt' While in the Belgian embassy they didn't ask for. I think they only mean that those embassies has received my visa application. If I went to Poland with my wife on Polish Spouse Visa and applied for residence permit, have I wait for 6 months to be able to travel with my wife in the main land Europe or they will give me temporarily stamp (something like residence permit) to stay in Poland with my wife and be able to work and travel to Europe?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

How is your contact with Solvit going?

[Yasser::Norske]

How is your contact with Solvit going?

There are no reply since more than a week ago. Any ideas?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Get in touch. Ask them how it is progressing. Let them know about developments on your side.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Can I ask where is it that you both want to move, and why that place?