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Ohhhhhhh thats a nice piece of meat you've given me thereDirective/2004/38/EC wrote:Be sure to read http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/09 ... ber-state/ when you have a chance. Obviously no rush though
OMG, posts like these make me very angry. Do not let them get away with this!skele wrote:SRAQAI, best of luck if you can afford to take France to court! I would love to do the same as would many others. France seem to be the worst with lying and obstructing these visas.
I am from the UK and was moving to France with my Tunisian husband and spent four months in Tunisia fighting the French embassy who said everything from 'there is no such visa' to 'there is but you can't have it' and demanded documents etc that they were not allowed to ask for.
They would not let me set foot inside the embassy, nor would anyone speak to me.
They deliberately lie and /or pretend that they do not know anything about these regulations.
SOLVIT are indeed useless, particularly UK SOLVIT, they don't seem to know the EU laws either.
It took four months of fighting all day everyday to get to France and we ended up arriving penniless and have had nothing but problems since because of this.
When you get to France they do not issue the correct residence cards either so the fight goes on.
The EU are not interested in doing anything about these breaches of the law unfortunately, perhaps the only way to fight it is to find as many people as possible in this situation with rights under the Directive and band together.
I know two other couples in France who had exactly the same problems and another in Tunisia who have taken six and a half months to get their visa and are also in the same position that we were having had to live there on the money they had saved to come here.
This is an illegal requirement as it is not one of the exhaustive conditions or required documents for residence card application defined in the Directive 2004/38/EC ( http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 048:EN:pdf ), see Article 10(2) for the exhaustive list of required documents. The type of visa is irrelevant (as well as whether there is visa at all).SRAQAI wrote:Another thing, which confused me is this: He told me that in order for my husband to apply for a residency card, he would need to apply for a 'long sejourn' Visa, which I think is 6 months long. Everything that I have seen and read suggests that my husband is able to apply for a French residency card, on the 3 month short term Visa. I know that there has been a recent change in regulation, however, I don't think people in my husband's category, under this Directive, are effected by this change, although I may be wrong. Do you know anything about this?
As I mentioned in my previous post above, petitioning the EU Parliament is probably the proper channel. It is a legislative body so it is not restricted to 'mal-adminsitration' cases, its job is rather to fix legislation (and to be concerned if existing legislation is not enforced).secondly, what do you have in mind, in terms of what can we 'do', to get our voice heard? Ill email you about this, I guess. Do you think it is worth even writing at this stage to the Euro. Ombudsman service, considering they only take 'mal-adminsitration' cases? Would our situation fall into the category of 'mal-admin', do you think?
So, one way of doing it might be:Any citizen of the European Union, or resident in a Member State, may, individually or in association with others, submit a petition to the European Parliament on a subject which comes within the European Union's fields of activity and which affects them directly. Any company, organisation or association with its headquarters in the European Union may also exercise this right of petition, which is guaranteed by the Treaty.
A petition may take the form of a complaint or a request and may relate to issues of public or private interest.
The petition may present an individual request, a complaint or observation concerning the application of EU law or an appeal to the European Parliament to adopt a position on a specific matter. Such petitions give the European Parliament the opportunity of calling attention to any infringement of a European citizen's rights by a Member State or local authorities or other institution.
Article 10(2) lists documents for a Residence Card. While you can hope and assume that the same list applies for entry visas, it is not explicitly stated. I think if it were were explicitly stated, we would not have this problem!mastermind wrote:[see] Article 10(2) for the exhaustive list of required documents
Does anyone know the source of the coloured language on visas? Does it come from an ECJ decision, or from something from the European Commission?Article 5 -- Right of entry
1. ...
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas.
Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
You missed the point. SRAQAI was told that France requires an applicant to enter on a specific kind of visa as a condition of residence card application.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Article 10(2) lists documents for a Residence Card. While you can hope and assume that the same list applies for entry visas, it is not explicitly stated. I think if it were were explicitly stated, we would not have this problem!mastermind wrote:[see] Article 10(2) for the exhaustive list of required documents
The requirements for these are pretty obvious from Shengen visa application forms! It is explained right on the form what information an EU-citizen's family member is not required to provide. Download a form and have a look: http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/dat ... -en-de.pdfIt is specifically an "entry visa" that is issued: Something to enter on.
Bottom of page 2 wrote:The fields marked with * shall not be filled in by family members of EU, EEA or CH citizens (spouse, child or dependent ascendant) while exercising their right to free movement. Family members of EU, EEA or CH citizens shall present documents to prove this relationship and fill in fields no 34 and 35.
Erm... How about your nickname?Does anyone know the source of the coloured language on visas? Does it come from an ECJ decision, or from something from the European Commission?Article 5 -- Right of entry
1. ...
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas.
Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
My quote does indeed come from Directive 2004/38/EC. And I am wondering what is the original source of those phrases.... That might give a sense of exactly what the requirements are that are implied (but not specified) by the words.mastermind wrote:Erm... How about your nickname?Does anyone know the source of the coloured language on visas? Does it come from an ECJ decision, or from something from the European Commission?Article 5 -- Right of entry
1. ...
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas.
Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 5(2), 2nd paragraph: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 048:EN:pdf
I think my caseworker - seeing my case as an 'urgent' case and is even working on it during his weekend, is safeguarding himself from what the French authorities may turnaround and say to him - he is looking at things in the French perspective. I have just sent him an email, quoting certain items from the directive, in regards to documents required for a residency card, along with a link to the actual directive. I am sure, hopefully, this will be adequate.mastermind wrote:Even if one is "illegally" in the country he/she should be able to apply for a residence card.SRAQAI wrote:from what I know, a 3 months Schengan is OK to apply for a residency card in France.
Not sure specifically what the email says.SRAQAI wrote:I have just re-read the email sent to me by my caseworker. He is referring to French legislation, not the EU Directive. Are we not still covered under the Directive.... i am sure
I have read elsewhere that the UK impose a requirement of priorDirective/2004/38/EC wrote:Be sure to read http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/09 ... ber-state/ when you have a chance. Obviously no rush though
EU nationals
As an EU national, or a family member of an EU national, you can generally apply for financial help towards the cost of tuition fees when studying in England, Wales or Northern Ireland if:
- you will have been living within the EEA and/or Switzerland for at least three years when you start your course, and
your main reason for being in the EEA and/or Switzerland was not to receive full-time education
Yes, I am aware of this three year rule. Regardless, my husband would still be able to work, whilst waiting out the 2 years to qualify for home tuition fees, and I think that since I am a student and have been living within the EU for last three years, then my spouse would also be eligible for home fees, according to local colleges.acme4242 wrote:I have read elsewhere that the UK impose a requirement of priorDirective/2004/38/EC wrote:Be sure to read http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/09 ... ber-state/ when you have a chance. Obviously no rush though
residence in another EU state, for EU nationals, otherwise they do not
qualify for reduced EU national fees and support.
Something like METOCK for students, you must already be resident in
another EU state.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAn ... /DG_065322EU nationals
As an EU national, or a family member of an EU national, you can generally apply for financial help towards the cost of tuition fees when studying in England, Wales or Northern Ireland if:
- you will have been living within the EEA and/or Switzerland for at least three years when you start your course, and
your main reason for being in the EEA and/or Switzerland was not to receive full-time education