intention of notice to deport & ILR

[worrier]

Dear All,

I appplied for ILR 3 years ago based on marriage to an Irish national , but it was refused because my husband was unemployed for a while prior to making the application. I was then given 28 days to leave the country.

My solicitors then advised me to do nothing as I would be due for ILR based on long residence 6mnth later. I later applied for ILR based on 14 days residency, but I am a bit worried.

I have noticed that it says on the immigration rule that the clock stops ticking if you have been issued with an intention of notice to deport or intention to notice of removal.

Could somebody please clarify if this is the same and giving 28 days to leave the country. and did my clock stop ticking when this letter was issued.
How does the affect my application for ILR


In addition, the last time I heard from the HO, I was told that my case has been referred to a caseworker, that was 22months ago and I have not heard anything since. They advice that you should not contact them , should I just sit this one out or is there something I can do??
Also does anyone have any idea what the maximum waiting period is before they reach their decisions

thank you

[Chess]

Unfortunately it appears that the 14 yr clock stopped. any possibility of going back to home country and applysing for a spouse visa/EEA family permit...

please serach topics on this forum

[Janit]

Could someone clarify the differences between:
1. The issuance of an intention of notice to deport (who gives it?)
2. The intention of notice of removal (who gives it?)
3. Letter saying 28 days to leave the country and who follows through
to ensure it is complied with?
Are they one and the same thing? Sorry, I am confused about it now.

[JAJ]

Dear All,

I appplied for ILR 3 years ago based on marriage to an Irish national , but it was refused because my husband was unemployed for a while prior to making the application.

Is that a usual reason for refusal of ILR? Or do you mean refusal of a spouse visa?

[worrier]

The ILR application was based on my marriage to an irish citizen. that was the reason given to me when my application was refused

Does anyone know the answer(s) to janit's question as I tpo am confused about what the differences are

[JAJ]

The ILR application was based on my marriage to an irish citizen. that was the reason given to me when my application was refused

You said in your first post that: "I appplied for ILR 3 years ago based on marriage to an Irish national , but it was refused because my husband was unemployed for a while prior to making the application"

If you don't give precise information, how can you hope for meaningful assistance?

Irish citizens can normally sponsor spouses for settlement, so saying ILR was refused because your spouse was Irish doesn't make sense either. If the letter really does say that then you probably have a case to get the Home Office to look at your file again (hopefully with a more experienced case officer).

Has your spouse thought about taking out British citizenship? It may make you eligible for naturalisation sooner, once you have ILR yourself.

[OL7MAX]

worrier, I'm now keen on knowing what the real reason/problem was. Would you mind restating this and clearing up the confusion?

[worrier]

I hope this clarifys things

I originally had a 5yr residencey based on my marriage to an EU citizen ( Irish). We then applied for indefinite leave to remain (form EEC2) towards the end of the expiry of the 5yr . Unfortunately, my husband had not worked for most of the 5yrs prior, which is one of the requirements to qualify for Indefinite leave.
I received a letter from HO, where they said that my application was rejected based on the above and no longer had any basis to stay in the country and had 28days to leave the country. By then my 5yr visa had expired.

My solicitor advised to wait 6months later to apply for ILR based on 14yr residency. Which we did 20months ago and are still waiting for a reply from the home office.

My concern right now is that the letter giving me 28days to leave the country may have stopped the clock and would only have been here for 13yrs 6mths which does not qualify me for 14yrs ILR application. Is this the case?

I know these applications take time to be processed and I wonder what the maximum wait is usaully. 5yrs?? more??

Finally, is there anything I can do to quicken this process??

Thanks

[JAJ]

I hope this clarifys things

I originally had a 5yr residencey based on my marriage to an EU citizen ( Irish). We then applied for indefinite leave to remain (form EEC2) towards the end of the expiry of the 5yr . Unfortunately, my husband had not worked for most of the 5yrs prior, which is one of the requirements to qualify for Indefinite leave.
I received a letter from HO, where they said that my application was rejected based on the above and no longer had any basis to stay in the country and had 28days to leave the country. By then my 5yr visa had expired.

Why on earth did you not apply for a spouse visa under normal United Kingdom immigration rules? Irish citizens can sponsor for a spouse visa under standard United Kingdom rules. You would be a permanent resident long ago had you done that.

This case shows one of the downsides of the "EEA Family Permit".

My solicitor advised to wait 6months later to apply for ILR based on 14yr residency. Which we did 20months ago and are still waiting for a reply from the home office.

My concern right now is that the letter giving me 28days to leave the country may have stopped the clock and would only have been here for 13yrs 6mths which does not qualify me for 14yrs ILR application. Is this the case?

I know these applications take time to be processed and I wonder what the maximum wait is usaully. 5yrs?? more??

Does your solicitor not know the answers to these questions?

Your solicitor also should be fully aware of the possibilities for Irish citizens to sponsor for a standard UK spouse visa (although you may need to leave the United Kingdom to do this and his unemployment won't help).

Although you may find - unless you can get a concession outside the Immigration Rules - that even if you succeed, the best you can hope for is a 2 year spouse visa, with ILR to follow later.

Was your solicitor not able to review your existing ILR application and see if it was treated correctly?

[worrier]

Right now, I'm really not too confident in my solicitor. He tells me not to worry, that everything will be ok and just sit back and wait for the HO to respond to us.

That's why, I've come to this board, hoping that somebody will be able to provide more information to me

[JAJ]

Right now, I'm really not too confident in my solicitor. He tells me not to worry, that everything will be ok and just sit back and wait for the HO to respond to us.

That's why, I've come to this board, hoping that somebody will be able to provide more information to me

An online forum cannot act as your own lawyer. If you are not comfortable with your solicitor, you do have the right to find another one. Check your contract with existing solicitor to see what fees you might still have to pay if you terminate his services. And if you feel you have been poorly advised, there is a complaints process at the Law Society.

[OL7MAX]

JAJ, surely an online forum can be a source of information that your solicitor may not currently possess - collective knowledge and all that? Isn't that why we do the IANAL disclaimer bit and carry on talking? The Law Society won't compensate you for your lawyer's incompetencee. And they certainly won't give you ILR.

worrier, it is perfectly acceptable to be dissatisfied with your lawyer and I'm surprised why more people aren't. I spoke to many solicitors before choosing one for an immigration matter of my own and it's disgraceful how little many of them know. They get by because their clients - in many cases non-English speaking ones - don't know any better. If you are looking to change solicitors I'd advise you to read up as much as you can about the legal issues pertaining to your case, discuss it with people on boards like these, and become a bit of an expert in the subject yourself. Then you are better able to spot those "pretend" lawyers and avoid them.

Does your solicitor not know the answers to these questions?

Possibly not. A solicitor's first duty is not to his client, it's to his mule... and covering it. He is more skilled in appearing to do his job than in actually achieving what you hired him to achieve. That's where his main experience lies. His second job is making money. Then he has loyaties to his firm and partners and law society mates etc., etc. You come a distant 163rd. Not necessarily an impossible situation but if you recognise it for what it really is you are better prepared to get where you want to get.

(With apologies to all the "good" lawyers here)

[John]

Unfortunately, my husband had not worked for most of the 5yrs prior, which is one of the requirements to qualify for Indefinite leave.

No it isn't, why do you think that?

What is the case is that the person is exercising Treaty Rights but there are a number of ways of doing that.

[worrier]

Thank you JAJ, I feel that my lawyer is not doing as much as he should as he obviously wants to spend his time on getting more clients and making money for his firm

That is why I posted my question on the forum to gain more information about my situation, to see if anyone has any knowledge of how I can address the questions that I had asked.

I would appreciate it if somebody can pass on any knowledge that they have regarding my situation.

No it isn't, why do you think that?
What is the case is that the person is exercising Treaty Rights but there are a number of ways of doing that.

This is the only reason that my lawyer told me. What could be the reasons. How can I find out the options that are available for me.

I do not know what to do at this point. All suggestions are welcome

[John]

This is the only reason that my lawyer told me. What could be the reasons. How can I find out the options that are available for me.

As previously said there are a number of ways to exercise Treaty Rights :-

People exercising Treaty Rights are defined as those who are exercising freedom of movement and residence as workers, self-employed people, providers and recipients of services, students, retired persons and other self-sufficient people.

So in what way is your spouse exercising Treaty Rights?

[worrier]

I still haven't received a reponse to my question. Can anyone out there help?? Did the clock stop ticking for me??

Thank you

[worrier]

I still haven't received a reponse to my question. Can anyone out there help?? Did the clock stop ticking for me??

Thank you

[John]

That makes two of us .... I still haven't got an answer to the question I asked you on 12th August.

[worrier]

So in what way is your spouse exercising Treaty Rights?

Hi John,

I think I have answered that. He applied for ILR based on being an EU migrant worker. The homeoffice refused his application as he had not worked for the whole of the 5yrs.

We were therefore adviced by a lawyer to lodge another application, based on me being here for 14yrs. This is the situation at the moment

I am worried that when our first application was refused, I was given 28days to leave the country and I wonder if that stopped the 14yr clock for us.

Thank you

[Marco 72]

I think I have answered that. He applied for ILR based on being an EU migrant worker. The homeoffice refused his application as he had not worked for the whole of the 5yrs.

I find this very strange, since I got ILR last year and I hadn't been working full time over the previous 4 years (the time required was later increased to 5 years). As John has pointed out, working is only one way of "exercising Treaty rights". Other ways include being a student, or a person of independent means. Unless your husband was in prison or collected public funds for some of those 5 years, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to qualify for ILR. A possible reason why it was denied could be that he was unable to prove his status. In my application I enclosed the following documents:

- copies of my P60's. I didn't have all of them so I wrote to the Inland Revenue and got a letter accounting for the missing periods
- a letter from my previous employer and one from my current employer, explaining in detail how long I had been working for them
- the three most recent pay slips
- a copy of all my bank statements from the previous four years, which I obtained from my bank (for your husband it should be five years).

What was the exact wording of the letter in which they informed your husband that his application had been denied?

We were therefore adviced by a lawyer to lodge another application, based on me being here for 14yrs. This is the situation at the moment

Why did you not apply for a spouse visa instead?

[OL7MAX]

worrier, if it's of any help to you most of the home office staff won't be able to distinguish whether the clock stopped or not... in many cases.

In your case I don't believe it stopped. From what little I know I believe they needed to serve you a deportation notice (not intention to deport) and serve it in the right format to the address they have for you (or to your legal representative). There have been many cases where people successfully argued that they were not served the right paper work or not served it in the right manner.... and these applicants were therefore deemed to be eligible.

During the last 14 years the rules on this have changed several times. It may be worth your solicitor seeking a specialist barrister's opinion.

[worrier]

IOL7MAX, did not receive a deportation notice from the home office. Can I confirm if a letter giving 28 days to leave the country is the same as intention to deport

I find this very strange, since I got ILR last year and I hadn't been working full time over the previous 4 years (the time required was later increased to 5 years). As John has pointed out, working is only one way of "exercising Treaty rights". Other ways include being a student, or a person of independent means. Unless your husband was in prison or collected public funds for some of those 5 years, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to qualify for ILR. A possible reason why it was denied could be that he was unable to prove his status.

I am very confused about the whole thing now. The letter HO wrote that my husband was not exercising his treaty rights and so I so had not have basis for remaining in the country and gave me 28days to leave. My lawyer told me it was because he was out of work for a long time within the 5yrs and that was why the application was rejected.

I am very confused because right now, we have gone for 14yrs option. Maybe we should have not listened to the lawyer and pursued the EC route.

What should I do????

[klara]

Could someone clarify the differences between:
1. The issuance of an intention of notice to deport (who gives it?)
2. The intention of notice of removal (who gives it?)
3. Letter saying 28 days to leave the country and who follows through
to ensure it is complied with?
Are they one and the same thing? Sorry, I am confused about it now.

Could someone who knows please answer these questions especially the 28 days letter, and if complied with would it still have an effect on future visa applications?

Thanks in advance

[Janit]

This is Janit here. I have never received a reply to my questions.

I was also refused ILR after 8 years and told to go back. I appealed to them by letter as there is no form to apply on asking them to review my case on compassionate grounds last year (2005) and have not heard from them since. I was never given a notice of deportation or 28 days or a removal notice.

Can someone tell me, does this mean that the time I am spending waiting for a reply is in fact legal. Where do they expect me to wait for a reply? If my time is legal, when the time comes, can I apply for 10 year ILR which could cancel the review request?

[Marco 72]

I am very confused about the whole thing now. The letter HO wrote that my husband was not exercising his treaty rights and so I so had not have basis for remaining in the country and gave me 28days to leave. My lawyer told me it was because he was out of work for a long time within the 5yrs and that was why the application was rejected.

Did the actual letter state why they thought he had not been exercising Treaty rights? Did he ever use public funds, e.g. unemployment benefits?