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NATURALIZATION CERTIFICATE.... please help!

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humble
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NATURALIZATION CERTIFICATE.... please help!

Post by humble » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:32 pm

hello everybody..

im a u.s citizen and am a naturlized u.k citizen as my parents are both british.

i have an expired u.k passport and would like to renew it.. i live in the u.s.
i downloaded the application form from www.britainusa.com and on section 1B it asks for:

citizenship document number (i assume thats a naturalization certificate).
however, i misplaced it.

since this is NOT a first application for passport but rather a renewal, will i need to fill that section out?

also, how would i go about getting that certificate number?
MUCH appreciated to anybody who can help asap!

thanks.

ppron747
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Post by ppron747 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:45 pm

Are you sure you were naturalised? You say that you were "as my parents were both British", but having British parents has never been a qualification for naturalisation as a British citizen. Naturalisation generally requires UK residence, or Crown service, which you don't mention...

Perhaps a bit more information about your parents' places of birth & your own date and place of birth might help untangle it...
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
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humble
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Post by humble » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:23 pm

sorry for the confusion.. my terminology isnt good in this particular area...

i was born in the u.s, and was 17 years old when i recieved my UK passport... my parents handled it so im not sure which legal channels they went through...

both my parents were born in the u.k.

can you please help?

ppron747
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Post by ppron747 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:37 pm

You're a British citizen by descent, I think! And that was automatic - no naturalisation needed...

If you were born before 1983, the following will prove your claim to British citizenship:
  • your father's UK birth certificate,
  • his marriage certificate (and evidence of termination of previous marriage(s) by either parent, if applicable)
  • and your own US birth certificate, naming your parentts
If you were born on or after 1 January 1983, it's easier - your birth certificate and your mother's UK birth certificate should do the trick (assuming your birth certificate gives her maiden name in addition to her married name).

It is possible that your parents registered your birth with the nearest British Consulate or with the British Embassy in Washington - it's one of those things that is a Good Thing, although a lot of people in the USA don't bother, to be honest. If they did, and either you or they have got a copy of the certificate, you won't need to produce the other stuff listed above.

Hope this helps
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
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Post by humble » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:12 pm

well..
keep in mind that i ALREADY have a u.k passport.. but its now expired and i would like to renew it. so this is NOT a first time application. with that in mind, do i really need to fill out that certificate number on the application?

its quite possible that my parents did register with the consulate in washington, but i certainly dont have that certificate.

do you thinking contacting them directly in washington would be able to produce the certificate for me?

ppron747
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Post by ppron747 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:41 pm

humble wrote:well..
keep in mind that i ALREADY have a u.k passport.. but its now expired and i would like to renew it. so this is NOT a first time application. with that in mind, do i really need to fill out that certificate number on the application?

Since that certificate number is the number of a naturalisation certificate, which doesn't exiest, no.

its quite possible that my parents did register with the consulate in washington, but i certainly dont have that certificate.

do you thinking contacting them directly in washington would be able to produce the certificate for me?
I don't have a copy of the form in front of me, but you said in your first post that it requires "a citizenship document number". As I explained, you have an automatic claim to British citizenship. There therefore cannot be a "citizenship document" with your name on it.

If there is a British document at all, it is a consular birth certificate. If you have it (or can get a copy from the British Embassy in Washington) that's fine - it proves that you're a British citizen. But if there isn't one, that's fine too - the documents I listed in my post above prove it as well.

You must complete all applicable sections of the form - ie not the bit about the non-existent citizenship document. They will expect to see your parents' names, dates and place of birth, date of marriage, if there are spaces on the form to include them. You may find that, because you've had a passport before, you needn't actually provide the documents themselves, but (to repeat myself) you do need to complete the bits of the form that apply to you.
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
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Post by Rogerio » Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:43 pm

I guess all you need to submit will be your expired UK passport, as this is not an application for a first passport. Your expired UK passport is proof that you are a British citizen and should suffice as evidence of your nationality & identification.

On the Britainusa site, please check:

http://www.britainusa.com/sections/arti ... 01&a=25302

Below - a copy/paste of the link above

To renew an expired or existing passport or a passport that has no blank pages

You should complete Form C1
For a child under 16, you shold complete Form C2

You must send your old passport (it will be returned to you.) No other documents are normally required.

A parent’s signature is required on a C1 application at Section 9, if the child is aged 16 or 17, as well as the applicant’s signature at section 10.

If your passport contains visas valid for countries other than the US, Australia or Canada, and is still valid, it may be cross-linked to the new passport. Please indicate at Section 8 if you require this service (For cost, see 'fees' on main page of website).

If you passport has been lost / stolen or is unavailable you must provide the address at which you were living when the passport was first issued, the next of kin details included on your previous passport application form and the name of the person who countersigned the original application. For additional identification purposes please send your US passport or an enlarged clear copy (front and back) of your US Alien Registration Card and driving license (if held).

If you are a tourist, please supply a copy of any identification you may have (e.g. driving license, credit cards etc.)

There is an additional fee to cover the administrative cost of a verification check with the office where the lost/stolen passport was issued unless it was issued in the US.

The loss of a passport is a serious matter and there may be some delay while enquiries are made before a new passport is issued.


To renew an expired or expiring passport or to obtain a first passport for a person over the age of 75

You should complete a United Kingdom Passport Service application form which you can obtain from our office.

You must send your old passport (it will be returned to you.) No other documents are normally required for renewals.

If this is a first time application:

You must send a full original birth certificate showing full details of both parents.

If you were not born in the US you must send the passport or travel document that you originally traveled on to enter the US.

If you were born outside the United Kingdom, you must also send documentary evidence of your parents’ claim to British nationality i.e., their original birth or registration certificates and their marriage certificate showing the marital status of both parties at the time of the marriage (with evidence of termination of previous marriage(s) if applicable). If your birth was registered at a British Consulate or the Home Office, the original certificate is all that is required.

For additional identification purposes, please send your US passport or an enlarged clear copy (front and back) of your US Alien Registration Card and any other photographic identification.

humble
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Post by humble » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:00 am

ok let me show you what im referring to.
this is the online application.. please note the last question of section 1a and section 1b:

http://www.britainusa.com/files/adobepd ... 299o_2.pdf


i do realize that the only documents needed are my expired passport.
but note that in section 1a and 1b its required to provide additional information including the 'citizenship document' number and place/date of issue... which i cannot get a hold of... at least not now.

so back to my original questions:

1) given that i already have an expired passport and this isnt A FIRST TIME APPLICATION, would i need to fill that info out?

2) can the UK embassy in washington provide me with such info and if yes, how long does it take and what documents would i need to provide them (if any)?

thanks again.

ppron747
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Post by ppron747 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:25 am

Box 1b asks
Were you naturalised or registered as a British subject, citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies, British citizen, British Dependent / Overseas Territories citizen, British Overseas citizen or British protected person?
and gives two check-boxes, one saying
Yes
which leads to a request for details of your citizenship document, and the other saying
No


The answer to Question 1b is NO - you were British automatically, as I explained. Checking the correct box therefore means that you avoid the impossible task of giving the details of a citizenship document that doesn't exist.

Instead, you are lead to Box 2, which asks
Were you born after 31 December 1982, or outside the United Kingdom* or a qualifying territory?
the answer to which is YES - leading to a request for information about your parents.
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
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humble
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Post by humble » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:46 am

PPRON good bro..

much thanks for the help.. that really saves alot of time and HEADACHE!

one last thing though..

take a quick look at the last question in section 1A:

WERE YOU BORN IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY AND YOUR BIRTH REGISTERED AT THE BRITISH CONSULATE? i WAS indeed born in the u.s (which makes it a foreign country) but i dont think my birth was registered in the embassy in washington.. so should i choose yes or no?


this shat is confusing! lol

thanks for the help.. really appreciate this.

ppron747
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Post by ppron747 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:00 am

I'd be inclined to check neither box, and simply write "I don't know" somewhere between them - given that you've already had a passport, and assuming you're able to provide the info requested about your parents, there's little reason to doubt you're a British citizen. When you eventually get to UK, you could go to the Family Records Office in London and check the indexes yourself for a very small fee, and get a copy of the consular birth registration certificate Iif there is one) for a few pounds, for the future...
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
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Post by JAJ » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:40 am

ppron747 wrote:I'd be inclined to check neither box, and simply write "I don't know" somewhere between them - given that you've already had a passport, and assuming you're able to provide the info requested about your parents, there's little reason to doubt you're a British citizen. When you eventually get to UK, you could go to the Family Records Office in London and check the indexes yourself for a very small fee, and get a copy of the consular birth registration certificate Iif there is one) for a few pounds, for the future...
If the original poster wants to (and doesn't have one already), I understand it's possible to obtain a consular birth certificate now. That will remove the possibility of questions about parents status at future passport renewals.

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Post by humble » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:51 am

im confused about a 'consular birth certificate'...

im assuming that my parents had to have registered my birth at the uk embassy in the u.s.a in order for me to have recieved my first passport??????

and if thats true, then my birth is registered and all id have to do is get a copy from the embassy???????

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Post by JAJ » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:38 am

humble wrote:im confused about a 'consular birth certificate'...

im assuming that my parents had to have registered my birth at the uk embassy in the u.s.a in order for me to have recieved my first passport??????

and if thats true, then my birth is registered and all id have to do is get a copy from the embassy???????

It is not normally compulsory to register the birth at a British Consulate. Many people don't bother but it makes passport renewal for the child a lot easier later on if they do.

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Post by humble » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:23 pm

do you think ill be ok if i send my expired uk passport along with a birth certificate BUT leave section about the registered birth empty?

the last thing i need is delays.... thanks.

and get this.. for information via phone those bastards charge $2.10 per minute..wtf is that all about????? :x

With effect from Monday 25 April 2005, all passport enquiries will be handled by ABTRAN e-Care and Fulfilment. Please call 1-900 285 7277. Hours of operation: Weekdays from 08.30-20.30 Eastern Standard Time. Calls from land lines cost $2.10 per minute. If you wish to pay by credit card and are calling from a payphone or cell phone, please call 1-800 630 3332.

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Post by Christophe » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:36 pm

humble wrote:do you think ill be ok if i send my expired uk passport along with a birth certificate BUT leave section about the registered birth empty?
I don't think you need to send the birth certificate. Point 12 in the notes that accompany the application form (see http://www.britainusa.com/consular/c1notes04.pdf) says (in part):
Documents are not normally needed if you are surrendering a recently expired, unrestricted British passport showing your national status as British citizen, British Dependent/Overseas Territories citizen, British Overseas citizen, British subject or British protected person and all other details are the same.
You do need to send the expired passport, though. I really think that, as a non-first time application sent along with the expired passport, the question about consular birth certificate will be deemed irrelevant - others may know better, however.

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